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How should I be driving my engine?

G Guest
My new 72 Pre-L Snow White has one hell of an engine.

What I know it it cost $26,000 in parts alone, carillo rods I think, Scat crank, special Yates C3L tall heads, custom exhaust, ITB's (individual throttle bodies) so it has those 8 sexy velocity stacks under the air cleaners, 10.5 compression pistons, but controlled by Haltech with modern fuel injectors. Apparently the cam is a pretty hot cam, but the injection has the idle ticking over more smoothly, but when you floor it, OH MAN does this thing go! All this is supposed to be older Nascar engine stuff. My guess is between 500-600 horsepower, for real.
Heads are Yates C3L, and require specail manifold and headers, Jesel rockers (aparrently big $$$) solid roller cam (although the motor runs quiet as a mouse-Roger said he'd adjusted the valves 3 week ago) which surprises me because I could ALWAYS hear a solid lifter motor from the clacking lifters.

The engine is deceiving because the idle is not lopey and rough, but when you push the go-peal it fricking hauls the mail!

SO, my question is this. I have this awesome race engine in my car, probably 500-plus whp, and I'm driving all easy on it (mainly because I'm waiting fot the oil temps to get up to operating temps), but does it matter how I drive this engine?

Should i be winding it out to redline to keep the motor happy, or is it content with my normal driving around with the occasional "run through the gears" or occasional showing off, or God forbid, a street race?

The engine's a full blown Nascar style race engine, I;m just wanting to know what it prefers as far as how it's driven.

Any thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated,

Mike
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panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by mike the snake:
My new 72 Pre-L Snow White has one hell of an engine.

What I know it it cost $26,000 in parts alone, carillo rods I think, Scat crank, special Yates C3L tall heads, custom exhaust, ITB's (individual throttle bodies) so it has those 8 sexy velocity stacks under the air cleaners, 10.5 compression pistons, but controlled by Haltech with modern fuel injectors. Apparently the cam is a pretty hot cam, but the injection has the idle ticking over more smoothly, but when you floor it, OH MAN does this thing go! All this is supposed to be older Nascar engine stuff. My guess is between 500-600 horsepower, for real.
Heads are Yates C3L, and require specail manifold and headers, Jesel rockers (aparrently big $$$) solid roller cam (although the motor runs quiet as a mouse-Roger said he'd adjusted the valves 3 week ago) which surprises me because I could ALWAYS hear a solid lifter motor from the clacking lifters.

The engine is deceiving because the idle is not lopey and rough, but when you push the go-peal it fricking hauls the mail!

SO, my question is this. I have this awesome race engine in my car, probably 500-plus whp, and I'm driving all easy on it (mainly because I'm waiting fot the oil temps to get up to operating temps), but does it matter how I drive this engine?

Should i be winding it out to redline to keep the motor happy, or is it content with my normal driving around with the occasional "run through the gears" or occasional showing off, or God forbid, a street race?

The engine's a full blown Nascar style race engine, I;m just wanting to know what it prefers as far as how it's driven.

Any thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated,

Mike


NASCAR engines get completely rebuilt after every race.

Are you sure this is a solid lifter engine? Lots of people are using cam grinds similar to the CompCams "Weber" grind, because of the IR intake. Hydraulic roller lifter cams are very popular too.

If you know what you are doing with solid lifters, they will be much quieter than the old "anti-pump up" hydraulic lifters.



The biggest issue with these engines is going to be the valve springs.

If you are into over .600" valve lifts, roller lifters, then you probably have very high spring rates.

Springs these days are MUCH better than those of the '60s BUT the higher the valve lift and the higher the spring rates, the quicker they will wear out.

You can't put a mileage figure on that. Here today...gone tomorrow. Just hope you don't drop a valve and wreck those nice heads?

Other than that, it is made to beat on. Clevelands can make power, big power, but you have to drive them like you hate them.



It probably is quite capable of mid 8,000 rpm runs BUT if you drive it like that, you will break parts. Especially in the valve train and that can get very, very expensive instantaneously.
Last edited by panteradoug
garth66garth66"When speed is the only thing that counts"
Let it get up to operating temperature before romping on it too hard. After that, drive the hell out of it! But also remember, there's an old saying that "nothing good happens over 6,000 RPM." The engine may be able to handle it, but you don't want to spend too much time there. The Cleveland has a heavy valve train, and as Doug already pointed out, a breakage can be expensive.
garth66garth66"When speed is the only thing that counts"
quote:
The Cleveland has a heavy valve train, and as Doug already pointed out, a breakage can be expensive.

FWIW, my fresh 383 stroker suffered a broken valve spring - the Beehive variety so no damper to hold the valve up. It resulted in a complete rebuild AGAIN and expensive work to repair my head.

Granted, my spring broke not because I was too hard on her, but because some of the springs were out of spec and suffered a coil bind situation despite the lift they should have been capable of supporting.
MT mike the snake (Guest)
Thanks for the reply.

I know, with my old Porsche race engine, it was built to b handle really high RPM's, but at the highest RPM's it was a 10-hour engine. Lower the rev-limit 1k or 2k lower and it became a 100 hour engine.

The same applies I'm sure to the engine in my car.

Here's a pic of the cam specs, I know Roger told me it was a solid roller cam for SURE, NO hydrolic.

Maybe someone can interpret these specs and tell me a little bit about my engine?



quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
quote:
Originally posted by mike the snake:
My new 72 Pre-L Snow White has one hell of an engine.

What I know it it cost $26,000 in parts alone, carillo rods I think, Scat crank, special Yates C3L tall heads, custom exhaust, ITB's (individual throttle bodies) so it has those 8 sexy velocity stacks under the air cleaners, 10.5 compression pistons, but controlled by Haltech with modern fuel injectors. Apparently the cam is a pretty hot cam, but the injection has the idle ticking over more smoothly, but when you floor it, OH MAN does this thing go! All this is supposed to be older Nascar engine stuff. My guess is between 500-600 horsepower, for real.
Heads are Yates C3L, and require specail manifold and headers, Jesel rockers (aparrently big $$$) solid roller cam (although the motor runs quiet as a mouse-Roger said he'd adjusted the valves 3 week ago) which surprises me because I could ALWAYS hear a solid lifter motor from the clacking lifters.

The engine is deceiving because the idle is not lopey and rough, but when you push the go-peal it fricking hauls the mail!

SO, my question is this. I have this awesome race engine in my car, probably 500-plus whp, and I'm driving all easy on it (mainly because I'm waiting fot the oil temps to get up to operating temps), but does it matter how I drive this engine?

Should i be winding it out to redline to keep the motor happy, or is it content with my normal driving around with the occasional "run through the gears" or occasional showing off, or God forbid, a street race?

The engine's a full blown Nascar style race engine, I;m just wanting to know what it prefers as far as how it's driven.

Any thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated,

Mike


NASCAR engines get completely rebuilt after every race.

Are you sure this is a solid lifter engine? Lots of people are using cam grinds similar to the CompCams "Weber" grind, because of the IR intake. Hydraulic roller lifter cams are very popular too.

If you know what you are doing with solid lifters, they will be much quieter than the old "anti-pump up" hydraulic lifters.



The biggest issue with these engines is going to be the valve spring rates.

If you are into over .600" valve lifts, roller lifters, then you probably have very high spring rates.

Springs these days are MUCH better than those of the '60s BUT the higher the valve lift and the higher the spring rates, the quicker they will wear out.

You can't put a mileage figure on that. Here today...gone tomorrow. Just hope you don't drop a valve and wreck those nice heads?

Other than that, it is made to beat on. Clevelands can make power, big power, but you have to drive them like you hate them.



It probably is quite capable of mid 8,000 rpm runs BUT if you drive it like that, you will break parts. Especially in the valve train and that can get very, very expensive instantaneously.

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MT mike the snake (Guest)
I guess I'm asking if I should drive it like I stole it, or if it would be fine just driven normally.

I'm wondering if the rpm's aren't kept high that I'll gum up the rings or if it's just an engine, and will last long if I putt around and won't last as long if I rev it to 7000 all the time, or if I should occasionally give it the "Italian Tune-Up" and beat on it occasionally to avoid carbon buildups.

These days, I save the hot-rod driving for the track, when street driving I'm usually just driving normally. It's too dangerous to drive fast/race on the streets.

I know Roger regularly tracked Snow White. He told me he used to drive from hs home, to Reno-Fernly, track it all day long, and then drive it home.

He also mentioned he'd adjusted the valves 3 weeks ago, so they won't need attention for a while. How many miles that is, I don't know.
panteradougpanteradougMember
On the subject of warming it up, go by the oil temp, not necessarily the water temp.

Many of the cars are being over cooled. They are running the Aviaid type 10 quart oil pans and the oil is not getting HOT enough.

Pro Stock cars use OIL HEATERS, not coolers, since the engine is set to be optimum with certain clearances. Those are set at specific oil temperatures.

That is more important for the bottom end of the engine, i.e., main bearing clearances, oil molecular loadings, etc, but it effects the valve trains also.

Unfortunately you need to determine what the optimum temperature is for your engine.

It's my opinion that 210 to 220 is about right.

If your oil is colder than that you are not warmed up and the thicker oil is putting unnecessary parasitic loads on the reciprocating assembly.

Stay under 6,500 or so and none of this should present any kind of an issue.



One thing I noticed with heavily loaded race engines is that they kill the viscosity of the oil fast.

Oil pressure on the Pro Stocks will leave the line with 100 psi and come back with 10 psi. They need to change the oil for every run.


NO ONE will ever tell you what rpm those cars are launching at. That is kind of a secret but somewhere in the 9,200 to 9,500 rpm range.

You aren't launching that hard are you?
garth66garth66"When speed is the only thing that counts"
You'll be fine driving it normally, as well as driving it like you stole it. The Cleveland is a very versatile engine. Not like an older Porsche in which you have to rev it up before every shift to avoid damage to the transmission. The IR EFI system in your car really tames that engine and allows you to drive it comfortably in a regular around town way. Carbon fouling plugs shouldn't be an issue as I imagine your car has an electronic ignition. But, never hurts to run it up to 5-6,000 RPM when getting onto the freeway! And a heck of a lot of fun too!
C comp2Member
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:


Pro Stock cars use OIL HEATERS, not coolers, since the engine is set to be optimum with certain clearances. Those are set at specific oil temperatures.


Funny you should mention that. I got an old worn out Nascar and the oil reservoir has a heater and an electrical extension chord on it.
MT mike the snake (Guest)
Thanks for the advice.

I am VERY anal about warming my engines before pushing them in any way.

All oils are rated at 200-210 degrees, so if you're colder or hotter than that, your oil isn't operating at the weight it's rated at, and could be too thick, or too thin.

Coolant gauges always go right to "your fully warm" within a couple minutes, but it takes 10-15 minutes for the oil to actually get up to temp.

Snow White has an oil temp gauge, and she runs between 200-230 depending on how I'm driving.

I'm very aware that too cool oil is just as bad, or worse than too hot (within reason) on engines.

I always start Snow White, and let her warm up, idling, for 5 minutes or so, and then I drive VERY easy (under 2000rpm) until I see the oil temps up near 200, then I know it's "Go Time!"

My last car, (Subaru BRZ) ran on 0-20 (basically water) and cold idle pressures were around 120lbs. Once above 200 the idle pressures were very low, like 5 or 10lbs.

Many people on the Subaru forum reported being SO HAPPY after installing their oil coolers because the oil temps now never went over 160. I told them many times that's way too cool, and you want to run your oil temps at 200-220 optimally.

My old Porshe race car had an oil cooler that was bigger than most radiators, but it was built to run at 100% on a 100 degree day at the track. I literally taped over 90% of the cooler to get my oil temps up to 210 on the cooler days.
R 1Rocketship (Guest)
If you have receipts for the engine components, just reference the Jesel rocker arms serial/parts number to confirm if they are adjustable for a solid cam, or just remove the oil filler cap, this might provide you a visual confirmation, or remove a valve cover....Mark
MT mike the snake (Guest)
I believe Roger with no doubt. When I asked him he said it was a solid roller cam, and he had just adjusted the valves 3 weeks ago, so I KNOW it's a solid roller cam engine.



quote:
Originally posted by 1Rocketship:
If you have receipts for the engine components, just reference the Jesel rocker arms serial/parts number to confirm if they are adjustable for a solid cam, or just remove the oil filler cap, this might provide you a visual confirmation, or remove a valve cover....Mark
MT mike the snake (Guest)
Roger even mentioned "the gearbox doesn't leak a drop of oil. If you see a drop or 2 of oil on the garage floor, it's from the cork valve covers weeping, because he ran that style valve cover so adjusting the valves didn't include ungluing the valve covers every time they needed to be removed for valve adjustments.

Unfortunately, all the old records and information on the car got lost or thrown out or something like that.

What I got with the car was a Haltech booklet, the cam spec sheet, and a small bag of spare parts.
panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by mike the snake:

My old Porshe race car had an oil cooler that was bigger than most radiators, but it was built to run at 100% on a 100 degree day at the track. I literally taped over 90% of the cooler to get my oil temps up to 210 on the cooler days.


Simpler than that, use a thermostat on the oil cooler lines.

Most people are WAY over cooled and the oil stays around 175 to 180.

I say 210 to 220 is just about right. This will also boil out a lot of the moisture in it too.

That and a properly designed PCV system which is not easy to do on an IR manifold with a not very strong idle signal.



I've also been able to pick up a couple of inches at idle when the oil is hot.



What do you do with the seven dwarfs?
MT mike the snake (Guest)
It's decieving! The injection has the idle sounding fairly tame, engine rolls smooth, idle doesn't shake, but MAN, I punched it full throttle for the first time giving a friend a ride merging onto the freeway, and Holy Shit! Scared the both of us! I was white knuckling the wheel, because I knew the car was right on the edge of breaking loose. We merged at maybe 100-120mph, and then I shifted into 3rd gear! LOL The thing is a beast.



quote:
Originally posted by garth66:
You'll be fine driving it normally, as well as driving it like you stole it. The Cleveland is a very versatile engine. Not like an older Porsche in which you have to rev it up before every shift to avoid damage to the transmission. The IR EFI system in your car really tames that engine and allows you to drive it comfortably in a regular around town way. Carbon fouling plugs shouldn't be an issue as I imagine your car has an electronic ignition. But, never hurts to run it up to 5-6,000 RPM when getting onto the freeway! And a heck of a lot of fun too!
MT mike the snake (Guest)
Thanks, of course, I'm a very conservative driver. my fast street driving days are over. I live 20 minutes from Sears Point, and when I feel the need to go fast I do an autocross or track day at Sears Point.

The Pantera I plan on keeping to drive, look good in, maybe punch it occasionally getting onto the freeway, but I pretty much drive like grandma most of the time.

I was just wondering when I'm normally driving, would it be better to just drive and shift the same as any other car, or since it's a race engine whether I should rev it higher between shifts/stay in a lower gear/keep the rpm's higher while cruising around.



quote:
Originally posted by Robbie:
I don't want to sound like a curmugeon but please be careful where you do your "drive it like you stole it" .. we all get a bad rap when one owner drives in an excessive manner in the wrong place.
bosswrenchbosswrenchMember
Mike, Roger once had an oil cooler on the car, but it came with a check-valve that had plastic guts to keep the system full. One day he ran the car hard and the check valve melted! This plugged about 80% of the oil flow; he came home at 1500 rpms, took the stuff off and threw it all in the trash!

If you'd like to experiment, I recommend Laminova or Fluidyne water-to-oil heat exchangers rather than air-to-oil coolers. Reason is, air-to-oil needs a big duct chopped into the bodywork somewhere and its easy to locate the duct in a dead-air area on these cars, or uglify their styling. Water-to-oil works no matter where you put them, and the Laminova is take-apart-cleanable. Fluidyne is all welded & cannot be cleaned if you pop a motor. Mocal & others sell a compact oil thermostat that can be plumbed in to keep from overcooling oil and also to aid warm-up.

No street Pantera needs an oil cooler unless you regularly run at redline in 5th gear for more than a couple of minutes. It took me 5 full minutes at 160 mph in 5th to bring the oil temp much above the water temp for a baseline run in our Pantera. Then as an experiment I installed Laminova's small tubular heat exchanger that is stock on late Ford police cars and taxicabs, also heavy trucks. It pulls about 7-15F degrees out of the oil and applies it to the coolant. I also added an oil thermostat from Pegasus Auto Racing in WI. No worries about overloading coolant temps because you already have a big radiator.

BTW, Roger & his builder both wrenched on winged dirt-track sprinters, not wimpy NASCARs! I'm told there's nothing in the world like 900 bhp in a 1300 lb car with only 3 brakes & 4 different sized tires!
R 1Rocketship (Guest)
quote:
Originally posted by Robbie:
I don't want to sound like a curmugeon but please be careful where you do your "drive it like you stole it" .. we all get a bad rap when one owner drives in an excessive manner in the wrong place.
Hello Robbie; I'm NOT a "curmudgeon", but was thinking the same thing also...Mark
MT mike the snake (Guest)
Bosswrench, thanks for all your tips and expertise.

I have no plans to run an oil cooler presently. My oil temps are perfect, between 200-230, probably a bit higher when I get to really driving the car harder, but I'd much rather have my oil temps get up to 250-270 than run around all day every day with my temps at 165 running an oil cooler.

I know oils are rated at a certain temp, like 200 or 210, and if your engine never gets hotter than 210 then you're never boiling off any water than might build up inside the engine. I'm Very aware of oil temps and where I think they should be, and so far, Snow White is running right in the sweet spot, so I'm not touching anything.

My neighbor had an air-to-oil oil cooler on his pantera, and had BIG problems with cavitation and loss of oil pressure at high rpm's, he too took his oil cooler off and chucked it into the trash.

I only got to know Roger for the couple days we did business together for the car, but I liked him a lot. He's a very cool, no nonsense kind of guy, who really knew his stuff.

I also agree, Sprint cars are the shit! Those guys are REAL men driving those cars. I'll watch Nascar if it's on, because I don't watch sports, just motorsports, on TV.

I live very close to Calistoga and Petaluma where they run the sprint cars, I love watching them!


I'm very lucky to have been able to buy Roger's car.
I'm also very much enjoying this forum, and all the great information and good people that I'm meeting here. Thanks to everyone!
panteradougpanteradougMember
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mike the snake:

Maybe someone can interpret these specs and tell me a little bit about my engine?

[QUOTE]

Well first off, with those heads and this cam you are in the 600 to 650 hp area.

This is not your everyday camshaft. It's pretty hefty.

You have triple springs, it pulls HARD to about 7,500 but will go over 8,000.

I'd be very surprised if it idled under 1,000 rpm but with the Haltech and the fuel injection....maybe?



I'm surprised that you say the engine is smooth. I have a non-roller solid that is very similar and the way I would describe the idle is "like a marching band". Boom, boom, bada, bada, boom boom.

With the Webers I do have it idling at 650 though and that kind of accentuates the overlap.

It pulls very, very hard from 2,500 up.



I do not worry about the car over heating. I worry about breaking a valve spring.
MT mike the snake (Guest)
Would it be a good idea to order up and install a new set of valve springs, just for safety's sake?

I think that engine has been in the car for a while now, I haven't beaten on it, but either way I'd rather spend a little money now and replace the springs than wait for one to break and cause expensive damage.
MT mike the snake (Guest)
The exhaust is a quad-tipped (Borla style I think) and at idle I only hear the drivers side, but the idle settles down most of the time.

My tach works only part time, and a quick throttle blip usually gets the idle down to a nice tick-over, in no way does it sound all "hopped up" with the car shaking, sounding anxious to launch into a wheelie.

But MAN, when I punched it to full throttle getting on the freeway the other day, I was white knuckling the wheel, that motor just kept pulling harder and harder, til it actually scared me a little. The thing is a monster.

That's another reason I'd rather buy and install new valve springs now than wait for one to break, if at that lift they are in jeopardy of breaking I want to play it safe.

What would be your thoughts on the matter of the springs?
panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by mike the snake:
Would it be a good idea to order up and install a new set of valve springs, just for safety's sake?

I think that engine has been in the car for a while now, I haven't beaten on it, but either way I'd rather spend a little money now and replace the springs than wait for one to break and cause expensive damage.


I think that you should talk to CompCams about that issue. Ask THEM what their recommendations are for the springs.

I think it is VERY safe to say that the springs should get changed out as a precaution at some point. Absolutely.

The trick is to know when.


Go look at the specs on all of Fords PRODUCTION high performance engine camshafts.

The ONLY one I can think of that has over .500" lift is the 66-7 427 Medium Riser. It's .525.

The Boss 302, Boss 351 are both .495 and the 289HP is .477.

Those are the kind of valve lifts that are necessary for the engine to make it's 12,000 mile/1 year factory warranty.

EVERY engine failure that I know of that is aftermarket was a valve train failure. Every one.

When you tear it down, it always comes up as a "mismatch" of either the locks, the retainers or the springs.

The short answer is that no-one can put a mileage expectation on the valve train but I'd take a wild guess and say, don't expect 100,000? That ones a no brainer.
MT mike the snake (Guest)
Thanks,

I'll be on the phone with Comp Cams in the morning.

I didn't know if I needed to worry about the springs at that height at high RPM's, or if they just didn't last as long at any RPM just due to their height.

So I guess I'm wondering, if I keep the RPM's below 6000, and drive the car around and have fun, am I good?

OR, due to the high lift, the springs might have a tendency to break at any time, regardless of RPM, (basically a ticking time bomb).

In any case, I'll be on the phone with Comp Cams as soon as they open tomorrow, and I'll get my questions answered.

Snow White is my new lover/girlfriend/mistress and I want to make very sure she stays as hot as she's always been.

The cost of a set of springs and a few hours of labor are nothing to keep that hourglass figure just how it's supposed to be. lol
bosswrenchbosswrenchMember
Mike, I'd take a look at the roller wheels too. Street driving a solid roller cam is much harder on them than racing because of low oil flow at very low speeds. The wheel surfaces may show chipping & galling. There are also valve spring pressure checkers to be used on an assembled engine, but they're a little pricy and in a Pantera, probably as much trouble to use as changing springs.

I was there when Roger first fired the engine up with the Quella EFI; within a second it idled quietly at 600 rpms. The engine builder looked at me and said, "Geeez- I guess I shoulda put a (obscenity deleted) cam in it!" With a big Holley on it before, the thing shook like a wet dog at low speeds. This is what convinced me that EFI is the way to go- if one can afford it.

As an aside, I richened the mixture up a bit at low rpms with a laptop, but the real fix came with another modern innovation. Kirby Schrader in TX runs the same EFI system on his track car, and he downloaded his fully tweaked program and mailed it to Roger, who loaded it into the Haltech brainbox! Dunno if its ever been looked at since. Can NOT say the same with Webers or Holleys....
garth66garth66"When speed is the only thing that counts"
Hey Mike,

Drive it until you break it! The problem with getting INTO the engine to do preventative "maintenance" (replacements) is that it fast becomes a slippery slope. You're doing the valve springs, then better check and replace those roller rockers. And while you're there, how do those lifters look, and what about the cam lobes. Maybe you'll want to replace the cam and lifters at the same time, "just to be safe." Well now you might as well pull the engine to facilitate all this replacement of bits, and since its out of the car, may as well replace the rod and main bearings, and heck, since you're doing all that, you might as well hone the cylinders and replace the rings too... And before you know it, you're doing a completely unnecessary rebuild, the cost of which would have bought you a LOT OF FUN in gallons of gas, or other desired upgrades/improvements to Snow White.
Just trying to be the voice of reason here.
panteradougpanteradougMember
I'm sure that Roger looked at everything when the valve covers were off.

The important thing is that you are aware that the mechanical roller lifter cam has special needs or considerations.

You have heard a few of them here.

Talk to CompCams as planned.

Bosswrench actually gave you justification in not babying the engine but all the car manufacturers now use roller lifter camshafts of various types so the technology in the components has improved durability of them incredibly.

Infact one could even argue that you should/could get unlimited mileage increases in the valvetrain because of all the rollerized friction points that traditionally with "your" basic simple hydraulic flat lifter camshafts was worn out at 50,000 miles previously. So all things are not bad here at all.
I agree, just drive it. Some internal issues are actually caused or enhanced by the lack of usage. You wouldn't want to be one of those guys right? Razzer
MT mike the snake (Guest)
I know after having my engine take a crap on me 3 tankfuls of gas into my new ownership (sheared distributor gear shaft pin) and what I've gone through to fix this thing, Snow White has been a BAD GIRL!

She needs to be PUNISHED!

She's got new oils in her belly and her box, all lubed up and ready for some heavy action.

I'm going to test that newly replaced distributor gear shaft pin.
MT mike the snake (Guest)
OK, since I now know that the high volume/pressure oil pumps put a lot of stress on the distributor gear shaft pin, and they have tendency to shear, I assume that start-up is what puts the most stress on the pin, (cold oil at it's thickest) correct?

SO, when I start the car, I always let the engine idle and warm up, but not for the 10-15 minutes it takes to heat the oil up, but should i let her warm up more than I have been, so at least the oil is thinner and hotter, putting less force on the pin.

Usually after a couple minutes of warmup, I take off and drive REALLY easy (under 2k rpms until I see the oil temps get above 180, then it's Go-Time.

Now I'm wondering if i should warm the car up more completely before taking off?
garth66garth66"When speed is the only thing that counts"
quote:
OK, since I now know that the high volume/pressure oil pumps put a lot of stress on the distributor gear shaft pin, and they have tendency to shear, I assume that start-up is what puts the most stress on the pin, (cold oil at it's thickest) correct?

SO, when I start the car, I always let the engine idle and warm up, but not for the 10-15 minutes it takes to heat the oil up, but should i let her warm up more than I have been, so at least the oil is thinner and hotter, putting less force on the pin.

Usually after a couple minutes of warmup, I take off and drive REALLY easy (under 2k rpms until I see the oil temps get above 180, then it's Go-Time.

Now I'm wondering if i should warm the car up more completely before taking off?

Your current warm up procedure is fine. Driving it easy/normally while the thing warms up the rest of the way won't put any unnecessary stress on the engine or distributor shear pin. And for that matter, if you're using a multi-viscosity oil, it's likely not thicker when cold and doesn't put additional stress on the dizzy shear pin anyway.

Remember, this is a Ford 351 Cleveland! The same basic architecture that's been powering trucks and sedans, not to mention bad-ass Panteras, for decades. It's not a high strung temperamental piece of Eye-talian exotica made of unobtanium tuned to the breaking point in need of constant attention.

Just drive and enjoy your car!
bosswrenchbosswrenchMember
Sure, a GM pin would work fine. So would a piece of drill rod staked on both ends. But I really hesitate to recommend drilling out the distributor drive gear pin size. Reason is, the shaft is sometimes hardenable high-carbon steel. I've drilled a few with no problem, and had others that were very difficult. Less risky to just double-pin the stocker.

What can happen is, Mr Ill-Equipped-Owner has a 3/8" hand drill and a set of Indian- or Chinese-made drills of questionable steel from a swap meet or Harbor Freight, that are not very sharp. He drills part-way through the shaft before friction causes the area in front of the cutting edge to heat-treat itself super-hard. Then either the drill's edge goes completely away or breaks. That leaves Mr do-it-himself with an unuseable distributor, on his way to a local machine shop. A pricey carbide drill and a drill press or milling machine with LOTS of cutting oil is the next step to finishing the 'simple' drill job....

If you need to add a new gear, that's another problem. Ford sells them un-drilled and says to not attempt to drill the gear to match the existing shaft hole, but to install it indexed in another position and match-drill both gear & shaft together. Indexing to an existing hole can be done, but it ain't easy; the gears are a press-fit and height is critical. Aftermarket or 460 electronic distributors can have gears the wrong height for some Cleveland blocks.
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