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650 Double pumper vs 750 vacuum secondary Login/Join 
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Have a fairly stock 351C with Holley 650 Double pumper. Tuned it with a narrow band O2 sensor. Not on a dyno. Leaned the carb up a bit. My wife is very sensitive to fuel/exhaust smells. Would a 750 vacuum secondary be a little more friendly to her at idle and normal driving RPM's? I was hoping not to sacrifice too much performance. Thanks in advance.
 
Posts: 13 | city, state or province, country: Southwest Missouri | Registered: September 09, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Caretaker of 8MA1244
'70 Euro Mangusta

DRIVE THEM, THEY WERE MEANT TO BE DRIVEN, IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT ONE, BUY A POSTER!

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Rick, I have a 302, still I did change from a 750 dual pumper (4150) to a 650 vaccum sec (4160). The fumes of unburnt fuel is practically gone, my plugs used to foul (dark coulour). Now the cars is a little quieter and almost doesn't smell. The main drawback will be the passing (WOT) will be somewaht weaker than before.

Denis
 
Posts: 774 | city, state or province, country: Ottawa, Ontario | Registered: July 30, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If the 750 vacuum secondary in question is a list 3310, don't use it. They are a big head ache.

-G
 
Posts: 6777 | city, state or province, country: Ventura, California, USA | Registered: September 22, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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No carb chosen at this time. Doin the research. May even lean toward a 670 avenger if you think it will flow enough. I have read many of your posts about clevelands needing larger cfm carbs, I am runnining a 70' or 71' iron dual plane intake. would the 770 avenger be too large?
 
Posts: 13 | city, state or province, country: Southwest Missouri | Registered: September 09, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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No.

A 770 carburetor is not too large. The most important consideration is calibration. You want to use a carburetor that is calibrated well for your motor's state of tune.

However, the four holes in the iron oem intake are small, sized for a 600 cfm carburetor, and will need machining to allow clearance for the larger butterflies of the larger carburetor. But then the material between the heat passage surrounding the holes for the primary butterflies and the primary holes themselves becomes very thin. I altered a few iron manifolds in years past, and to do it properly I brazed the heat passages, had the carb pad milled flat and then had the holes enlarged. A lot of work to invest in an iron intake manifold.

If the motor is reasonably stock, one route to increase the carburetor size on an M code motor is to acquire the intake manifold from a '71 or '72 Q code motor and a rebuilt 4300D Autolite carb.

If you wanna use a Holley carb installation of an aftermarket intake manifold may be easier than having an iron manifold modified. The Blue Thunder manifold is a good choice, but the Edelbrock Performer manifold will work OK too and they are relatively inexpensive to acquire on eBay. The new Edelbrock RPM Air Gap manifold is another choice in a dual plane intake manifold.

-G
 
Posts: 6777 | city, state or province, country: Ventura, California, USA | Registered: September 22, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
"Raising DeTomaso awareness among my neighbors..."
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600-650 cfm is enough for that motor, unless you constantly ride above 5500 rpm. The formula for carb size is on this page, look in the paragraph: Size
TuningMadeEasy

I recommend the Summit carb. I have it on both my Pantera and my Longchamp. Best carbs I've ever had, super throttle response. And no fumes.


Mikael
Pantera+Longchamp
Author of Tuning Made Easy, available at amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/Tuning-M...l-Hass/dp/8771144625
 
Posts: 1322 | city, state or province, country: Denmark | Registered: October 23, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Your Post: 750 vacuum/ 3310 Holley is a big headache. Would appreciate if you could explain further. I thught it's was a good choise with a somewhat more radical cam, Edelbrock performer and headers, or are there other issues with that carburator?
 
Posts: 21 | city, state or province, country: sweden | Registered: May 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The 3310 has been a poor choice when used "out of the box" since the 1960s. I'm sure a good Holley tuner can set one up to work, but as they come out of the box ... no way. Not with a 351C anyway. They will be too rich in the lower rpm range, throttle response will not be crisp, power will be down, drivability is poor and you'll normally find a stumble or hesitation somewhere in the power band too. The 3310 boosters are a poor choice, the power valve restrictions too big, other orifices & passages are likely the wrong size too, and since its a model 4160 it has a secondary metering plate which isn't tune-able.

I recommend a new Holley from the HP series, a tuner modified Holley, or one of the many Holleys Ford installed in the Boss 302, 428 Cobra Jet, 429 Cobra Jet (they were 700 to 780 cfm, too many part numbers to list).

As an example, the Boss 351 installed in the Australian Ford XY Falcon GT-HO Phase III was equipped with the same 780 Holley carburetor as a 1970 Boss 302, Ford #D0ZF-9510-Z. That is a 780 that works.

-G
 
Posts: 6777 | city, state or province, country: Ventura, California, USA | Registered: September 22, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Check this fellow out;
http://www.chucknuytten.com/
might be able to help! Mark
 
Posts: 408 | city, state or province, country: Menifee, Ca | Registered: November 06, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by SICK CAT:
Check this fellow out;
http://www.chucknuytten.com/
might be able to help! Mark


I have a Chuck Nuytten carb on my car. I got tired of screwing with my 650DP and couldn't get it to run properly on my engine, which is far from stock. I sent Chuck a 5-page questionnaire filled out with all the specs of the engine.

He returned a carb that works like a charm.

I went to him after a recommendation from Chuck Engles, who dyno-tested a CN carb. Putting the actual car on a dyno with a qualified shop and swapping jets around based on A/F mixtures and dyno pulls, he was able to improve the CN carb by a whopping 1hp and 2ftp/tq (or 2hp and 1 ftp, I don't remember and it doesn't really matter).

Anyway, it impressed me that anyone could dial in a carb that closely without installing it and testing it.

You lose your choke, as he mills it off, and will completely rebuild and blueprint your carb even if it is brand new (as it was in my case). But I'm happy with the result


Charlie McCall
1985 DeTomaso Pantera GT5-S #9375
"Raising Pantera Awareness across Europe"
http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=2323
 
Posts: 690 | city, state or province, country: Vitoria, Spain | Registered: October 05, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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