quote:
Originally posted by Rocky:
quote:
lying salesman/politician dupe the innocent



I didn't say don't point out discrepancies between the ad copy and reality.....

Honestly, I think that we want to encourage people to post cars for sale here, even if they are not as familiar with the marque as we are....
Hello Rocky; With a simple Google search a vast wealth of knowledge can be garnered on seemingly an infinite range of subjects, in this specific example the DeTomaso Pantera being offered for sale.

I only speak for myself, & when I see numerous GROSS errors being issued as fact, when those errors could have been avoided ALL together with the minimum exerted amount of effort on the seller's part, that's when I call into question the integrity of the seller, as we collectively are not talking about an incidental purchase, but rather a considerable expenditure of funds.
All this is fine I suppose but I fear that what is being created is the "Pantera Secret Police".

I am well versed in the Shelby Secret Police. I know how to handle them but unfortunately "violence begets violence".

I am past "Hitler's inner circle". He is personally "beholding to me". Some of The "Shelby Secret Police" have been neutered and at least will not be able to procreate.

If they continue though, they WILL do it from afar and not as representatives of SAAC in any way or form.

They in fact have a new commanding officer in charge as a result.



The thing I fear here is that will happen with Panteras. There are indications of that here already.

You HAVE TO BE a knowledgeable buyer. YOU have to be able to see through the BS and identify exactly what you are looking at. No one else can do that for you.

If you aren't and you thought you found something special that no one else knew about then you likely screwed yourself? I see justice in that.

You thought you were a wiseass but you really are only a dumbass.



NO ONE needs someone running around in a cape, mask and spandex tights proclaiming that THEY are this self proclaimed secret super hero that is here saving all others due to his/her own divine magnificence, i.e., magnanimous.

Even if it is just running around over a keyboard.

If you need to do that, do that in private or do that while institutionalized and under the treatment of a Medical Doctor and staff. It really is providing a dis-service to the entire Marque.

They probably can keep you in a group of others with the same affliction. So you won't be alone.



I can save no one. A basis of "lifesaving" is that you can't save someone else if you can't save yourself first. That should be self evident to all?



Mark. Why haven't you re-introduced yourself ? We all know it is you?
I feel like we can do the Pantera community a service by fairly evaluating vehicles posted for sale.

But excoriating sellers - who's motivation is difficult to discern in a single post - will not encourage other sellers to want to risk the "Salem Witch Trials", if their advert is not deemed acceptable.

Rocky
quote:
Originally posted by Rocky:
I feel like we can do the Pantera community a service by fairly evaluating vehicles posted for sale.

But excoriating sellers - who's motivation is difficult to discern in a single post - will not encourage other sellers to want to risk the "Salem Witch Trials", if their advert is not deemed acceptable.

Rocky
Hello Rocky; "Salem Witch Trials" were about falsely accusing people for crimes they did not commit nor could have committed ( turning people into frogs as an example)

I have read no where there being any examples of falsely accusing the seller of anything other than bringing to light,the numerous erroneous statements he has made in his advertisement.

As an example...

"The 1974 Pantera GTS was considered the fastest production car manufactured in 1974"

In american form the 1974 Pantera GTS was capable "theoretically of 156mph"

de Tomaso Pantera GTS, model year 1974, version for North America U.S.
2-door coupe body type
RWD (rear-wheel drive), manual 5-speed gearbox
petrol (gasoline) engine with displacement: 5766 cm3 / 351.9 cui, advertised power: 198.5 kW / 266 hp / 270 PS ( SAE net ), Torque net: 408 Nm / 301 lb-ft
characteristic dimensions: outside length: 4453 mm / 175.3 in, wheelbase: 2499 mm / 98.4 in
how fast is this car ? top speed: 251 km/h (156 mph) (theoretical);
accelerations: 0- 60 mph 6 s; 0- 100 km/h 6.3 s (a-c simulation); 1/4 mile drag time (402 m) 14.4 s (a-c simulation)
fuel consumption and mileage: average estimated by a-c: 17.1 l/100km / 16.5 mpg (imp.) / 13.7 mpg (U.S.) / 5.8 km/l


The 1974 Lamborghini Countach LP400 was capable of 186MPH...

Lamborghini Countach LP400, model year 1974, version for Europe North America , worldwide
2-door coupe body type
RWD (rear-wheel drive), manual 5-speed gearbox
petrol (gasoline) engine with displacement: 3929 cm3 / 239.9 cui, advertised power: 276 kW / 370 hp / 375 PS ( DIN ), Torque net: 361 Nm / 266 lb-ft
characteristic dimensions: outside length: 4140 mm / 163 in, wheelbase: 2450 mm / 96.5 in
how fast is this car ? top speed: 300 km/h (186 mph) (declared by factory);
accelerations: 0- 60 mph 5.1 s, 0- 100 km/h 5.4 s (declared by factory), 1/4 mile drag time (402 m) 13.2 s (a-c simulation)
fuel consumption and mileage: average estimated by a-c: 18.4 l/100km / 15.4 mpg (imp.) / 12.8 mpg (U.S.) / 5.4 km/l

Doesn't take a rocket scientist is come to the factual conclusion that 186mph is 30mph FASTER than 156mph!

I can understand the facts being muddled in an advertisement for a 1974 Ford Pinto being offered for $2,800.00.

I expect a quantum leap of accuracy in the advertisement for a $124,000.00 car from any manufacturer.

This kind of scrutiny is not solely found here on Pantera International, as it is the "norm", rather than the "Salem Witch Trials" exception you deem it as being.

Your mileage may vary.
I see that the trial has begun.

Let me explain to the uninitiated that the problem is that sellers will sometimes use terms that some consider unspeakable.

In using them openly, it becomes heresy. Then the tradition would to find the defendant guilty of witchcraft and be sentenced to be burned at the stake.

The justification is "for the greater good". One must protect the innocents?

The accusers these days tend to sit in their closets dressed in their Super Hero costumes.

A mask, a cape and a full body suit made of spandex.

It is best that they do. Most don't wax and their pubies stick though.

What colors are your spandex Speedunlimited?

You know about the cellulite showing through too, right? Wink
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
I see that the trial has begun.

Let me explain to the uninitiated that the problem is that sellers will sometimes use terms that some consider unspeakable.

In using them openly, it becomes heresy. Then the tradition would to find the defendant guilty of witchcraft and be sentenced to be burned at the stake.

The justification is "for the greater good". One must protect the innocents?

The accusers these days tend to sit in their closets dressed in their Super Hero costumes.

A mask, a cape and a full body suit made of spandex.

It is best that they do. Most don't wax and their pubies stick though.

What colors are your spandex Speedunlimited?

You know about the cellulite showing through too, right? Wink
Gave up the Spandex, as I developed a NASTY rash in the "unmentionable place".

Now I find myself gravitating to PVC & Leather! like Al Pacino in "Cruising"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR7y7g8h1y4
Good morning folks:
Happy New Year to all.
I have placed my search for a Pantera on hold until later on in the Spring, for I too have grown very skeptical about the offers and descriptions of some of these cars. Until I am fully satisfied after driving and inspecting the vehicle I will not drop a cent, this is how I have done it in the past and I have not been wrong in my decisions.

I have several cars in mind (Panteras) and non Panteras. I really appreciate to see all this input for it strengthen my position about my decision making process.

I agree with many of your postings that a salesman ought to be as honest and concise as he/she can when describing a car; lying or flowering the car with extraneous adjectives will only deflate the interest of the buyer. I recently exchanged several lengthy emails with Mike Drew and he reinforced my position 200%, thanks Mike for your integrity.
Sincerely
Lou (Basque1)
Hello Basque1; You are extremely fortunate to have placed yourself in the advantageous position of having Mike Drew as a confidant & adviser.

Mike is the "Creme de la Creme" First Place

Interested in knowing of the others cars you have interest in acquiring.
Hello speedunlimited:
I know the guy is amazing and with great integrity, he would not take a penny for his work for the mark, for he does not want to compromise his judgement, I respect that tremendously.
I will keep you all posted of my progress
Regards
Lou



quote:
Originally posted by speedunlimited:
Hello Basque1; You are extremely fortunate to have placed yourself in the advantageous position of having Mike Drew as a confidant & adviser.

Mike is the "Creme de la Creme" First Place

Interested in knowing of the others cars you have interest in acquiring.

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