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2018 Pantera coming next month, 350 grand

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joulesjoules"Racing is Life, anything before or after is just waiting" - Steve McQueen
Because I'm going to drop a big deposit to an Asian guy in a wife beater tee telling me what a wonderful opportunity and name dropping whilst driving along in his Raptor.

"The first 25 cars are going to be 'lunch edition' with no big wings and skirts, then the production model will be a bit wider a bit longer and bit taller". So I guess that's the SUV or 'after a big lunch' version

"It's a carbon fiber body, not a full chassis" so basically a space frame kit with carbon panels "brought in under HR22 to circumvent any safety requirements" Yes that sounds exactly like a $300K kit car.... maybe they even have Long & Newman molds!
adoberetreatadoberetreatMember
I wonder why everyone is bashing the new DeTomaso before they have even seen the car? I agree that the son doing YouTube videos on his dad's new venture in a t-shirt sitting in a lawn chair is not befitting of a car company preparing to enter the marketplace for high end sports cars. But why bash the entire venture because of the son's casual YouTube ad? Calling it a scam? I don't get it.

For my part, I admire the entrepreneur spirit for someone to step up and take on such a challenge. That takes some guts. As for comments that Mr. Kim has failed several times in other ventures, tacitly implying that he is a loser, I disagree. I admire him even more for picking himself back up, dusting himself off, and trying again. Anyone ever heard of the story of Manny, Moe, and Jack of Pep Boys fame?
adoberetreatadoberetreatMember
Just seeking some clarification here; Are you guys saying that this whole thing is a scam meaning that Mr. Kim isn't even building a new DeTomaso and that he is just taking deposits to cheat people and then disappear into the sunset? I have not vetted Mr. Kim because I am not in the market for a 350k car, but it appears some of you have, in which case you would be more in the know than me. And it seems most of you think he is con artist and think this whole thing is a cheap, pathetic, ill conceived thinly veiled scam. Is that what you guys are saying?
rockyrockyMember
Others may be harsher in their judgment than I.

My comment is that this viral marketing program for a $330K supercar leaves a little bit to be desired.

It's not the kind of thing that will make either investors, or potential customers sit up and take notice.

At least the last DeTomaso development & marketing effort produced a book on the marque and development plans that sold (IIRC) for over $500 on eBay.

This marketing program isn't inspiring a lot of confidence in the ability of the manufacturer to pull it off successfully.... But time will tell.

Rocky

PS> Even if they had iPhones back in the day, I believe Alessandro would have executed a more flashy campaign... Like actually arriving to an event driving one of his cars....
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lf-tp2511lf-tp2511Member
Mr. Kim's business card, as handed out at the Fun Rally.

Note the email address domain is .co

That is not a misprinted .com

.co is the country domain name for Columbia. It is now being marketed as (taken from www.go.co-----"Official website for the .co domain") -

"Short, memorable and credible -- .CO is the hot new ending for web addresses being used all over the world."

For those wanting to reach out to Mr. KIm with their own questions or concerns, here is his email address, telephone and mobile.

Address for their Hong Kong office is also noted.

Larry

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lf-tp2511lf-tp2511Member
This is what appears when you go to the new Detomaso.co website -

Zero, zip, nada, nothing.

Also note that the website name is available through a GoDaddy auction for $5800. Yes, the new De Tomaso company's website, a key aspect of any worldwide business, and listed on Tom Kim's business card, is available for purchase.

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adoberetreatadoberetreatMember
If Mr. Kim is indeed a scam artist, why did he pay 1.1 million dollars for the DeTomaso name? It is official and on record and provable that Mr. Kim did buy the DeTomaso name for over a million dollars, right? Although a million dollars is not a lot of money in today's world (heck, my GT5-S is probably worth around a quarter of a million), its still enough money invested by Mr. Kim where it seems to be a stupidly chosen method to scam people.

Another possibility besides it being a scam is that Mr. Kim is simply incompetent and bereft of the business acumen needed to see a venture through to its fruition. With Larry pointing out all of Mr. Kim's past failed business ventures, maybe Mr. Kim isn't so much a scam artist but rather a spoiled guy who grew up in Beverly Hills with a little bit of family money to throw around who has never had any personal accomplishments and simply does not have the fortitude or talent to put a new DeTomaso on the market.

Scam or simply an incompetent buffoon? Either way, I won't be plopping down any deposits for this new DeTomaso. My original viewpoint has changed, and now I'm with the majority here. This Mr. Kim does not seem legit.
lf-tp2511lf-tp2511Member
Based on my extensive research I have no reason to believe Tom Kim was the party behind the purchase of the De Tomaso name for $1.1 million. The purchasing company is Ideal Team Ventures Limited and nowhere in my research does Mr. Kim's name appear to be directly associated with that company. The apparent principal in that company is a Mr. Michael Choi and there appear to be numerous business connections between Mr. Choi and Tom Kim.

My belief is Mr. Kim is acting on the behalf of Mr. Choi, the principal in Ideal Team Ventures Limited.

Here are two sources of information I have found:

http://investorshub.advfn.com/...message_id=126779952


https://www.google.com/amp/amp...r-after-deal-fizzles
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lf-tp2511lf-tp2511Member
UPDATE:

Keen readers will notice I have edited or deleted many of my previous posts. I want to explain why I have done this.

I just got off the phone with Steve Wilkinson. During our conversation, which was initiated for other matters, I asked him what his views were on the new Pantera that we have been discussing in this thread.

Steve, not unexpectedly, has been in constant contact with Mr. Kim and Mr. Choi. Steve provided specifics on the new Pantera's progress, and some of the components being used, and tells me they do expect to have a finished car in California by the end of the year. Current plans call for a private unveiling to occur with many club members to be invited.

Steve told me he has seen multiple photographs of the car currently being assembled in South Africa. He knows I am one of the doubting Thomases on this proving to be a successful venture, and perhaps may have shared specifics that he does not really want out in public yet, so I will say no more than he told me it will be equipped with a very modern Ford engine and a transaxle recently found in a Ford Motors vehicle. Wink

Steve also told me meetings have occurred with California departments regarding smog certification for the intended engine.

So, despite the lawn chair YouTube videos, the show room location, and previous business activities of Mr. Kim, the reality is that something actually does appear to be forthcoming.

As in all new business ventures, and especially those De Tomaso-themed, success remains to be seen.

I am now cautiously optimistic but still reasonably doubtful,

Larry
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zr1panterazr1panteraForum Sponsor - SACC Restorations
That doesn't change the fact that nobody is going to pay 350K for a 40 year old design, even if they put a modern drive train and interior in it. There are many supercars available at that price point with major corporations standing behind them. The only customers will be folks that don't mind wasting their money on a car that will never hold its value. Still sounds like a kit car to me. As always, just my opinion!
adoberetreatadoberetreatMember
Hi Larry, thanks for updating us on your conversation with Steve Wilkinson regarding the fact that Mr. Kim really is producing a new DeTomaso. Even though it appears you originally guessed wrong on Mr. Kim, based on your research you had good cause to be suspicious. I appreciate your contributions, especially with filling us in regarding your recent conversation with Steve Wilkinson.

As for why people would pay for a new car with a 30 yr old design, in my mind that's not a big concern. All sorts of cars out today, including the new Ford Mustang, Dodge Challenger, and so many others are a remake of cars from yesteryear, and they are very popular.

As for calling it nothing more than a kit car, I see it more for it sounds to be; a low production modernized GT5-S with updated cabin, modernized engine and mechanicals. Sounds pretty exciting to me.

Now that I have read from a credible source that this is no scam, that there is a new DeTomaso about to be unveiled, I say Bravo!

David
ahudsonahudsonMember
quote:
Originally posted by David_Nunn:
Scott, it makes no sense to me either but keep in mind, Singer sells 1960's look Porsche 911's for $500,000 and they are sold out for the next four years! There are lots of wealthy people around who want something different and don't mind paying dearly for nostalgia.


Yep, I was thinking the same thing then read your post. I guess a variable is that Porsche has had a continuously and largely flourishing business enterprise vs DeTomaso. Time tends to fade greatness and memories.(just ask Alfa Romeo.)

Far as the authenticity and legitimacy, if this is to be seen as credible, the marketing professionals should step in and position it in a way befitting a $300k+ car.

In addition, someone should disconnect the son's ability to do any more PR, and perhaps have him quit snorting bug spray.
SharkeySharkeyForum Sponsor - Pantera Miami
I hope this comes to fruition, I have two pre-sold as of this week from repeat offenders [meaning die hard Pantera guys, not criminals] Understand, I'm not taking deposits. I'm not getting in the middle. They will be direct buys, but like most of us, we need to see it, feel it, smell it, touch it, hear it, well you get the picture. Cash & carry.
lf-tp2511lf-tp2511Member
quote:
, I have two pre-sold as of this week from repeat offenders


Since you did not write "I know of two repeat offenders that have placed themselves on the waiting list", I assume you have been reaching out to previous clients informing them of the Tom Kim Pantera?

If that is in fact the case that tells me you have placed your reputation and reliability on the line with those two future purchasers. I doubt that you would risk tarnishing your image without having done your due diligence before approaching your clients with this information.

Again, if that is in fact the case, can you tell us what such due diligence has been? Have you spoken with Tom Kim, with Steve Wilkinson, received any documents, photos or videos to verify what you have been told?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Larry
tbergtbergMember
"That doesn't change the fact that nobody is going to pay 350K for a 40 year old design,..."
Really?! The most obvious rebuttal to that theory is the 2005-06 Ford GT. A modern, updated tribute to the original GT40, these cars are routinely being sold at or near $350K for a 50 year old design.
There are several companies selling modern running gear, updated versions of Jaguar's E-type starting at $500K. http://newatlas.com/lyonheart-...uction-number/26771/
http://www.caranddriver.com/fe...ype-speedster-page-4
Is it so farfetched to believe that if a state of the art, more comfortable, superior performing tribute based on the original design came to market that a few dozen buyers who appreciate the simplicity and purety of the original design couldn't be found? There are those of us who look at the "more scoops the better" design language of Lamborghini and think, "how could anyone buy any Lambo, they're so ugly."
How many of us have taken our cars to shows or to the track or to the supermarket for that matter and attracted a crowd of admirers who can't believe the car is nearly 48 years old? Each time over the years that I've taken my car to Audi track events and had it parked next to an R-8, it's as if the Audi didn't exist. Our cars have a magnetism to which all of us who own them were attracted. And most of us have spent gobs of money, maybe not $350K's worth but undoubtedly more than we'd like to admit to update, maintain, and improve them. And if we were in the market for a $350,000 exotic and the new Pantera's abilities were on par with other exotics at a similar price, why not? The exclusivity would make it highly desirable. I just hope it's as good as it needs to be!
lf-tp2511lf-tp2511Member
Today Hunter Kim, the son of Tom Kim, previously of lawn-chair-in-the-garage fame, posted another "2018 Detomaso Pantera" video on YouTube.

https://youtu.be/QgLuGjJLVwc

He again made mention of the "launch" model version which will be followed by the "production" version, but he also dropped the teaser of a "Special edition" that is "going to be insane".

The thumbnail for the video displays a photo of an under construction vehicle. It only appears very briefly at the start of the video, but I was able to catch a screen grab of it.

I am unsure as to the significance of the photo, as it clearly does not depict any version of a Pantera we have ever previously seen.

To my eye, it appears to be a GT40 replica.

Enjoy.

Larry

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lf-tp2511lf-tp2511Member
quote:
The screen grab you posted is not in the video now

Nope, it is still there. It is very, very, very briefly shown at the very beginning of the video. Actually displays just after you click to open the video, before his in-car video begins.

I am not surprised you missed it during your viewing. You can only imagine how much fun I had trying to actually capture it. Wink

Larry
davidnunndavidnunnMember
If these people were truly serious about resurrecting the brand and had the money to do it, they'd establish operations in Italy and do things properly. They could buy the old factory for pennies on the dollar. They could hire as much of the old staff back as possible, for the sake of continuity, then go after some qualified people who work for real car companies, to run the company. Perhaps someone from the DeTomaso family could be convinced ($$$) to be the face of the company. Firms like Pagani and Koenigsegg have proven it's possible for a boutique manufacturer to be very successful. It takes a special combination of business savvy, engineering expertise, political influence and deep, deep pockets though.

Unfortunately, the current fiasco looks too much like daddy trying to buy his less-than-successful son a car company. What they haven't figured out is, it isn't that simple. The heart and soul of DeTomaso was never for sale. They may have purchased the rights to the name, leased a building in Los Angeles and hired Superformance to build them a car that resembles a GT5S/Si Pantera but regardless of the name plate they stick on it, it will not be a DeTomaso Pantera.
rockyrockyMember
If these guys pull off a build using a Superformance chassis, IMHO this is a much better project that I originally imagined.

Who can say that the stock chassis build pictured in the video is really the design they are working on for the DeTomaso project? Only Tom & Hunter Kim, and a few other cognoscenti.

Maybe this thing really could turn out to be something special?

Rocky
lf-tp2511lf-tp2511Member
Hunter posted another YouTube video a couple of days ago. It was centered around three Porsches his father is storing at the new 2018 Pantera dealership building.

While Hunter has been stopped from doing any more 2018 Pantera updates, he did manage to include some Pantera content as he filmed the entry door and a large wall mural while entering the dealership building.

Larry

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kjeldpedersenkjeldpedersenMember
Hi.
Are there anybody who has any update on this

Kjeld.

quote:
Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:
Hunter posted another YouTube video a couple of days ago. It was centered around three Porsches his father is storing at the new 2018 Pantera dealership building.

While Hunter has been stopped from doing any more 2018 Pantera updates, he did manage to include some Pantera content as he filmed the entry door and a large wall mural while entering the dealership building.

Larry
lf-tp2511lf-tp2511Member
I spoke with Steve Wilkinson today about this.

The pathway to the 2018 Pantera, and other similar ventures, is recent legislation allowing new replica cars to be produced in limited numbers - 250?? per builder - but they must be equipped with current year engines.

According to Steve, the CARB (California Air Resources Bureau) rules and regulations have not been finalized. Government moves slowly, when it moves at all. Hong Kong DeTomaso (HKDT) intended to use 2017 Ford motors, but due to the regulatory delays, have cancelled their order for 25 2017 engines.

Ford will supply HKDT the 2018 engines, but not prior to their Ford introduction. Likely end of 2018 until they are available for HKDT. That engine is about 3" taller than the 2017 engine previously selected, but apparently the 2018 Pantera can be re-engineered for that increased height.

Steve thinks the final body prototype may become a reality in early 2018, as it continues to progress at the builder in South Africa.

So:

Body not finalized

Rules and regulations to allow production not finalized

Preferred engines not available until late 2018

Sorry guys, I suggest you ask Santa for something else for this year.

Larry
Last edited by lf-tp2511
joulesjoules"Racing is Life, anything before or after is just waiting" - Steve McQueen
How does one obtain a patent on a previously manufactured design, what is new and novel?

Novelty is very strictly defined by patent law referring to originality of the idea. A supposed invention cannot be patented if the invention was known or used by others before the patent applicant invented it or if it is a modification or advance that would be obvious to a person skilled in the area. Perhaps European patent law is less stringent and that's why they filed there? Or are they just trying to preempt and quash others ability to execute on designs that seem to have popped up of late e.g. Ares Design

If those renderings are representative of ride height, then this must be the "Baja" version.... Big Grin

Julian
Last edited by joules
bosswrenchbosswrenchMember
It's a true giggle reading about something from China being "patented", given their enormous bazaars in all major cities for ripped-off DVDs, devices, designs etc. When did they begin paying the slightest attention to international law?

Second thought: the last Pantera of that shape was built by DeTomaso in about 1989; maybe they think the original 1970 design, now 48 yrs old, has been "abandoned"?
4nhotrod4nhotrodHe who dies with the most toys is dead
Anyone who has a public company worth nothing and then claims its be "acquired" by a big company, which turns out to be a complete lie, is a lying piece of shit.
That is a clear indication of how he ( and probably his father) made their money.
I'll bet they make a mess of the new Detomaso but will probably stuff their pockets with cash.

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