body repair questions

Actually, I do have a question that perhaps you could help with.

I bought an L-model fiberglass bumper, and before I test fit it, I had your buddy and mine (Rick P.) paint it.

Then I went to try and mount it, and I found it was about 2" short!

I had read somewhere that you had run across this issue with some bumpers produced elsewhere, and had tips to get it to work...

It seems to me it needs to be split and lengthened...

Anyway - I'd appreciate any advice you might have.

Rocky

One More Picture

Chuck,

FWIW , I am installing a fiberglass L bumper on a yellow car today that I received from Kirk and it fits beautifully.
Not sure how you will make that one fit without major surgery.

Ron

Thanks, Ron -

From what I understand, Kirk's bumpers fit great. There were another lot of bumpers from somewhere else that don't fit.

I am a little disturbed that somebody would sell one without mentioning it, but that's a different story.

I agree with you, it seems like to save this one, it needs to be split & lengthened.

Thanks -

quote:

Originally posted by Rocky:
Actually, I do have a question that perhaps you could help with.

I bought an L-model fiberglass bumper, and before I test fit it, I had your buddy and mine (Rick P.) paint it.

Then I went to try and mount it, and I found it was about 2" short!

I had read somewhere that you had run across this issue with some bumpers produced elsewhere, and had tips to get it to work...

It seems to me it needs to be split and lengthened...

Anyway - I'd appreciate any advice you might have.

Rocky

Rocky/Chuck,

I will do my best to outline what may have happened when you bumper was first made. It starts like this---A bumper gets taken to a fiberglass shop and is instructed to "build be a bumper like this but straight" The shop pulls a splash mold to build a new master plug that is straight. Now the original has shrunk from age, (shrink #1) the splash mold has shrink from the material used, (shrink #2). Next they build a thicker part which also shrinks. (shrink #3) Now the original was warped and most likely did not fit that well when it was new. All of the rubber bumpers required 3 small fasteners per side to pull them into the body for an acceptable fit, right? Now the mold maker is using a master that was never fit to a Pantera body so none of the edges are close to the correct shape, it has shrunk 3 times and is warped on top. He straightens the top, fills in the parking light warps and he now thinks it's a perfect master bumper plug. They build a new mold from the poor fitting plug. (shrink #4) Now the first part is made to the new mold spec. (shrink #5) It gets put up to a car that maybe was crashed in the front and repaired. It fits per crap. but with allot of grinding and work, it will work. The vender complains but the builder says, stick it where the sun doesn't shine. The mold gets paid for and taken to another hop where they make parts that are down the street from the ball park's parking lot. You get one thinking it should fit, paint it and here we are.

This is the correct way. Shrink 1 and 2 are normal. Now you take the warped thicker part made form the splash mold and match fit it to a non molested or crashed body. The builder has to make sure all of the light pod opening clear and the hood will not get nicked when you open it from the side pockets of the bumper. You add the necessary material to the ends so it will fit the body better than original since a two sided hollow fiberglass part has minimal bending ability and should fit with no stress when bolted up. Now you have a properly fitted master plug to build a good mold producing a well fitting part. It will not fit every car perfect but with minor edge fitting, it should fit every car perfect.

In this case, add what you need to the bumper that will make it fit your car or find a place in the archive of Boo-boo parts and look for a plan B.

Please PM me with the info where you got it and I will be happy to inform them that they should consider build a new mold. Sometimes a vender may no realize they have a problem.

Here's a shot of a bumper with only the seams repaired---no edge work at all has been done at this point.

A shot of a bumper installed

A bumper with daytime running lights. I was told this car had some front and damage and assume it was on the left side from looking at the install pictures.

I would be happy to answer all body related question such as door window track and drive adjusting, glass removal, parking light stud repairs, what ever comes up.

Hi Kirk,

Yes please,

My drivers window binds up at about 2/3 of the way up. For about 2 inches then is smooth running too the top.
I've tried adjusting the nut holding the track to the middle bottom of the door. I've also put spacer washers in various spots. The window works but I would love it if I could get it to not bind up. What should I check and in what order should I do the adjustments. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Doug M

Thanks, Kirk -

I can see this will likely turn into an interesting thread.

To answer your question on the source of my bumper... the real answer is "I don't know".

I purchased it as an unfinished (white) fiberglass from a Pantera Owner. I didn't get the history. He said he bought it, and then decided not to install it. So I'm not sure if it was a one-off, or someone's production run.


Follow-Up Question: So are you saying if the bumper fits (generally, but is too short), it's easier to build up the outside edges with material, than it is to split the bumper and fiberglass it up? Thanks.


Regards -

Chuck / Rocky

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug M:
Hi Kirk,

Yes please,

My drivers window binds up at about 2/3 of the way up. For about 2 inches then is smooth running too the top.
I've tried adjusting the nut holding the track to the middle bottom of the door. I've also put spacer washers in various spots. The window works but I would love it if I could get it to not bind up. What should I check and in what order should I do the adjustments. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Doug,

The 2 primary reasons the window drags are from the center guide bar not having the original washers re-installed at the top and it's in a bind or the vent window felt channel gets replaced and the new material is not the correct size and/or is was not notched at the top to allow the clearance for the upper mounting bar which is screwed into the top of the door and is welded in the window guide channel. The are numerous other combinations of reasons---those are the primary ones and the window drag will weaken the motor over time---you third reason.

You should pull the window mounts and test slide the window first. If it moves up and down by hand without dragging, the rest is adjustment details. I can go through the process once your sure the glass slides OK.

On possible reason is most of the center bars do not have the same ark as the window and that is critical because it will glide smooth in some areas and bind in others. I bench fit every window now to make sure the guide bar is arked correctly.

Here is a shot of a window bolted to the drive in a rolled down position. I am holding the guide bar down---it was adjusted and greased at this point and is sliding smooth.

Measurement at the bottom.

Measurement at the top. The guide bar is arked 1/2 to much.

A small tweak and guide bar matches the window.

The top measurement.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rocky:
Thanks, Kirk -

I can see this will likely turn into an interesting thread.

To answer your question on the source of my bumper... the real answer is "I don't know".

I purchased it as an unfinished (white) fiberglass from a Pantera Owner. I didn't get the history. He said he bought it, and then decided not to install it. So I'm not sure if it was a one-off, or someone's production run.


Follow-Up Question: So are you saying if the bumper fits (generally, but is too short), it's easier to build up the outside edges with material, than it is to split the bumper and fiberglass it up? Thanks.

The primary visual problem is not having the bumper mounting perimeter on the ends not close to the body in some areas. If the bumper is a bit lower and narrower, once mounted your eye will not go to it but if it has big gaps, it looks nasty. Also the hood hits in the corners unless there are clearance so check that. In your case buy the way this looks, you would be adding a ton of filler to do a match fit so it may be better to split the bumper, slide in a hard wood support between the pieces moving it to the desired width and re-glass the halves. That will add clearance to the hood edges.

Here is a shot of the front split bumper that has beef fitted. You can see the gaps are even.

Another shot. I recommend taking time to make the gaps even so none of the edge surface touches the body. That way you will not have rub marks in the paint and to me it just looks better than any gap filling rubber trim glued on. Early metal bumpers were made to have a trim edge, L bumpers were not.

Hope this helps.

Reply to Doug about window binding:

In addition to Kirk's input, I found a different problem with mine with similar symptoms. My guide bars were not of uniform width top to bottom. The rollers would move smoothly at the ends of travel, and bind in the middle. I came up with a fix for this, but it is not simple. Let me know if you want details.

quote:

Originally posted by Kirk Evans:
A bumper with daytime running lights. I was told this car had some front and damage and assume it was on the left side from looking at the install pictures.

Kirk,
Can an LED strip be added to the front edge of a front metal bumper to act as a turn signal? I have a picture of a modification someone did for the rear bumpers.

Sure...What type of bumper? Eyebrow? Cast aluminum or sheet metal? Here is a shot of some LED dot lights I played with on my splits. Decided to put it on the shelf. There are many light designs that should/could/would work. If you have the cast aluminum bumpers, drilling or cutting holes may be more difficult.

Kirk -

Thanks for the advice.

Chuck/Rocky

quote:

Originally posted by Kirk Evans:
Sure...What type of bumper? Eyebrow? Cast aluminum or sheet metal? Here is a shot of some LED dot lights I played with on my splits. Decided to put it on the shelf. There are many light designs that should/could/would work. If you have the cast aluminum bumpers, drilling or cutting holes may be more difficult.

Original '71 euro style bumperettes.

Are you leaving the bumper's shape alone? If yes, are the original lights still in the holes or have they been replaced? Do you want the LED to go into the front edge of the bumper? If yes, do you want to eliminate the parking light opening? I have quite a few different LED light possibilities.

If you can let me know what your ideas are in a bit more detail, I could possible make some suggestions that will follow your needs. If you want to keep your concept off the radar, shoot me a PM or a note to my AmeriSport email and we'll go stelth.

I have 2 lights that are half as thick as the one below in the L bumper that should fit nicely in the edge of a pre-L bumper-et

quote:

Originally posted by Kirk Evans:
Are you leaving the bumper's shape alone? If yes, are the original lights still in the holes or have they been replaced? Do you want the LED to go into the front edge of the bumper? If yes, do you want to eliminate the parking light opening? I have quite a few different LED light possibilities.

Are you leaving the bumper's shape alone? Yes
If yes, are the original lights still in the holes or have they been replaced? There are no lights. These are euro bumpers which didn't have the lights.
Do you want the LED to go into the front edge of the bumper? Yes
If yes, do you want to eliminate the parking light opening? There is no parking light opening.

Are the chrome? If yes, are you re-chroming? If no, they are rounded edged and painted, correct? You have a pre L car with no light pods in the valance with later eyebrow bumpers also with no light provisions, right? Do you want to use those bumpers or have a set of composite bumpers modified and fitted with some type of LED light? What type of light design do you like or does it matter?

I modified the license plate bracket to fit the license plate then used LED strips above for a license plate light:

http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/lp/lp.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Kirk Evans:
Are the chrome? If yes, are you re-chroming? If no, they are rounded edged and painted, correct? You have a pre L car with no light pods in the valance with later eyebrow bumpers also with no light provisions, right? Do you want to use those bumpers or have a set of composite bumpers modified and fitted with some type of LED light? What type of light design do you like or does it matter?

Yes, rechroming.
Correct. There is no front turn signal provision at all.
I would use these bumpers. I like the chrome.
Some sort of LED.

OK so you want to use the early original metal chrome front eyebrow bumpers, modify them to have an integrated LED in the edge and then re-chrome them, correct? Did you fill the valance divot where the original light use to set? There are lights that could be installed on the underside of your bumpers that would not require any chrome work---not a fitted cool custom job but you would not have to cut the bumpers.

Ever consider installing a set of valance light pods and using the original style clear lens lights with the Jon Hass LED conversion? The converted lights can be used as daytime running lights, nighttime parking lights and blinkers that change to yellow when blinking.

I make the pods but you have to open a clearance hole in the valance. Was working on a modified version that would not require cutting the clearance hole---not finished yet.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by comp2:
I modified the license plate bracket to fit the license plate then used LED strips above for a license plate light:

Nice job! Moves the license plate up, hides the LED and gets rid of the factory light bar that is very hard to find and quite expensive these days. A great solution (< congrats.

How about some guidance on a seamless trunk liner install?

All finished.

With a peddle extension installed.

Kirk,
What material did you use?

For the front turn signal and marker lights I used a generic marker light. Actually not the one in the first photo but an LED which looked a little better. I liked the idea of cheap common replacements available everywhere.

The microprocessor based light and turn signal controller I made uses the same bulb for turn and marker. The flash rate also does not care if it's an LED or standard bulb:

When doing the frame rail repairs I made them from 14g. I added extra supports with grooves and holes to drain moisture. I would be jacking on the frame rails like those before me but if some one does latter, I doubt they will hurt the rails.

http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/frame/frame.htm

My headlight buckets had individual bolts. It was a PTA. I made a nut plate which made bolting on and adjusting the buckets a lot easier:

http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/np/np.htm

Door hangers for body repair.


http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/dh/dh.htm

Removable tie down hooks. Proven to be quite useful when trailering Pantera for interior, getting windshield installed, etc. I have actually left them in as contact points for the ground but I am considering some sort of a skid to make contact before air dam:

(At bottom of page)

http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/valance/valance.htm

Home made ZF side mounts:

http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/zfmount/zfm.htm

The side mounts on the chassis also have buts welded in. I use them for a platform I can stand on in the back and for a stainless steel display. I am considering using them as an extra mounting point for a custom trunk tub:

There is a lot more but my favorite has to be the removable rear window. It can be taken out in 5 minutes with an Allen wrench:

quote:

Originally posted by Husker:
Kirk,
What material did you use?

The light pods are composite and the trunk material is off the shelf available at most trim shops. It was made specifically for lining your trunk. I use to make liner kits back in the early 80s using this material and discovers you can stretch and pull it for a seamless covering. This stuff it quite tough and is great looking once installed---IMHO

Here is a shot of a rear with the seamless material installed. The bottom crack seen in the picture is a lid that covers a cavity below where you can keep cleaning and polishing goodies away from public view.

Is that symmetrical tube from an early (or late) model or one you cleaned up?

This design was scratch built. I wanted to have a symmetrical tub with a much larger condenser air cavity to improve the AC and finally to be able to hide the cleaning supplies from public view.

Here is how it started. The master model "plug" was made from wood, metal, foam, acrylic sheet, filler, and polyester primer.

Early side view of the back. You can see the start of the AC condenser cavity.

Getting close to a finished shape now. There was allot of inside and outside radius work on every edge. It took many special hand made forms to do the finish detail work.

Some of the tools for the details that were needed. The round ended shaft tools were used for the inside radius work. Others for shapes, fill work and drafting needed to make the mold pull from the master.

Master plug in primer ready to start the mold now. You can clearly see the dropped floor where the lid sits into the bottom. Plenty of room for all kinds of goodies hiding until they are needed.

Building the mold.

Ready to lift it from the engine compartment.

A bottom view of the freshly pulled mold.

A raw part right out of the mold.

Here's a tub modified with a clear bottom. The hidden cavity was removed but the lid still protects the acrylic if you want to put some luggage or folding chairs in the back to travel.

Here's one modified with an acrylic front for engine view. The bottom lid/cover is out in this shot.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by comp2:
When doing the frame rail repairs I made them from 14g. I added extra supports with grooves and holes to drain moisture. I would be jacking on the frame rails like those before me but if some one does latter, I doubt they will hurt the rails.

Nice work. I do a similar repair using 12 gauge on the full bottom following the curve. Usually only needs the area repaired in your picture. I have the entire bottom patterned so we can cut the laser-ed patch off and only do the straight area. This is a good solution.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by comp2:
My headlight buckets had individual bolts. It was a PTA. I made a nut plate which made bolting on and adjusting the buckets a lot easier:

Really nice work. Love the door holing fixtures. I use simple slip sleeve bolt locks like your door adjuster has to find the vertical location on all of my caster fixtures also.

Question---How did you mount the headlight bar back into the car? The ends are short, right? Did you add length to the bar after the install or is this a custom opening mechanism?

I mount the lid tabs to a 1/2 sleeve that attaches to the lift bar. That way you can adjust the buckets into the openings by holding the split sleeve with hose clamps. Here is a shot of the split bar mount modified to be installed on the main drive bar later. You can replace the bar bushing and use collar locks to hold the side to side position. The bar slides into the mounts in one piece but you have to have the drive gear removed. And if both fenders are still on, you will need to cut a hole in one fender to put the bar back into the car. Sounds horrible but it's simple to butt weld the hole shut and hammer the seams---there is room.

Here is the bucket mount welded to the lift bar. You can see the collar locks in the right side in the pic that hold the bar from sliding back and forth.

quote:

Originally posted by Kirk Evans:

The headlight bar? I actually eliminated it. I set up linear actuators because I reconfigured the front. All air goes out the hood now. All air under the car is blocked off:

http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/hood/hood.htm

http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/rhl/rhl.htm




I also found the headlight bucket fit quite sloppy so I welded a wire around to tighten it up:

http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/hl/hl.htm

I do have a question. I thought about making a stainless steel wire mesh trunk tub. It would be see through. I know it would not stop the heat but would be kind of cool. I was thinking if things in the trunk are heat sensitive I could use some sort of thermal blanket. I was curious what you might think?

Gary

Gary,

Your obviously a skilled craftsman, fabricator and this is your baby so go for it. My only suggestion would be to build inside a tub that fits your car and the various items that you will need to form around. Or build a protective shield shaped in various flats out of foam core to protect your engine bay. Then use it to build the wire tub in flat shapes so you can form the mesh and not have to shape it. Straight forms are easy---complex shaping mesh is difficulty to do and will stretch and shrink the wire holes.

If I were building something like this, I would build an outer shape with hard corners on all of the edges that would be formed in maybe 1.5 x 14 gauge angle bent to fit---an entire structure shape in SS custom bent angles. Then cut the wire mesh to fit the flat angles on you bent framing and it's various shapes built to fit your car. Thinking of a framed cage approach. By the way, the picture is not my work.

It's something I have been thinking about. Unfortunately I have a long list of other things in front of it.

How about some topic suggestions?

Drain holes, door alignment, trim blacking, deck cracks and top edge lifting, body week spots, door hinge rebuilding, rocker cavity dust catch pockets, composite part fitting, roof rust, side mirror window mounting, hood front rust repair?

Kirk,

Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge!

The metal work on 5715 has finally gained momentum. There are a couple of topics that I can use some help with.

First, where do suggest body reinforcement be added. An aluminum 9.2” deck height 400 cubic inch Clevor engine with probably about 450HP will be installed. Not a huge powerhouse like some others have installed but strong enough to consider body flex. The goal for 5715 is for it to be a nice street car so hidden reinforcements and/or gussets are OK.

The second topic is wheel positioning to the chassis. Specifically front to back. 5715 is rust free and we don’t believe it has ever taken a big hit. We found a small crunch at the front left corner ahead of the head light that was banged out and Bondoed. There was a repair under the drivers seat that will be redone. Looks like the car ran over something at some point. The car appears to be square. The issue that concerns me is the track dimension we measured. With all new bushing in all the suspension arms and a rough alignment we measure almost 1” longer than the published stock dimension. Everything seems to be symmetrical. Do you have some hard points we could check? Are these cars usually dimensionally consistent? BTW, all the control arms appear to be straight.

5715 has been media blasted so everything is visible.

Thanks,
Mike

JFB posted a chassis diagram which show a couple of dimensions that might help. It’s no longer attached to this thread. Can it be posted again?

Thanks

Mike,

The hidden reinforcement that would make a difference would require opening up the car and based on your rust free description, I doubt if that's a good approach in this case. How deep do you want to go is the question.

As far as the dimension, are you measuring from the hub centers? If yes, do you have all of the lower rear control mount shims out, are the upper rear arms adjustable or extended, and are the front upper control arms caster modified? I do not measure the wheel base from the centers. Might I suggest measuring the platform from the suspension mount points side to side and see if they match. Use the control are tabs/holes front to rear. If they match, do a cross measure left rear to right front and see if the numbers are the same. If yes, don't worry, the car is fine and will align correctly. DO NOT USE THE FACTORY ALIGNMENT SPECS! They will take out the inside tread on the rear tires.

The S car is suppose to have the same center to center wheel dimension but is indeed longer. I know this because we had to modify the platform fixture to bolt on the body.

Here is a shot of a simple fix that helps keep the taillight corners from cracking. It's a bar welded in to hold the rear valance from flexing when you're driving the car. Picture is a bit muffed---it's the muffler opening area on the rear valance.

quote:

Originally posted by Racecar Mike:
JFB posted a chassis diagram which show a couple of dimensions that might help. It’s no longer attached to this thread. Can it be posted again?

Thanks

What happened to the post? Sounds like something that could help.

I didn't want to clutter up your postings so I removed it (not the best quality). I thought Mike and I could exchange privately.

Your advice though is beyond what I would have even thought about related alignment settings.

Thus I'll just shut up, listen and try to learn!

quote:

Originally posted by Kirk Evans:

The 2 primary reasons the window drags are from the center guide bar no having the original washers re-installed at the top and it's in a bind or the vent window felt channel gets replaced and the new material is not the correct size and/or is was not notched at the top to allow the clearance for the upper mounting bar which is screwed into the top of the door and is welded in the window guide channel. The are numerous other combinations of reasons---those are the primary ones and the window drag will weaken the motor over time---you third reason.

You should pull the window mounts and test slide the window first. If it moves up and down by hand without dragging, the rest is adjustment details. I can go through the process once your sure the glass slides OK.

On possible reason is most of the center bars do not have the same ark as the window and that is critical because it will glide smooth in some areas and bind in others. I bench fit every window now to make sure the guide bar is arked correctly.

Here is a shot of a window bolted to the drive in a rolled down position. I am holding the guide bar down---it was adjusted and greased at this point and is sliding smooth.

Kirk,

Thank you very much for the info.
I will pull the door panel off and check all the points you mentioned. Over the years I have replaced the glass, installed taurus motors and replaced the outer cat whiskers. Somewhere along the way I messed up the adjustments.

The car is in hibernation mode right now in a friends garage. As soon as spring shows up and I get it home I will tear it apart and check everything you mentioned and let you know.

Thanks again,

Doug M

quote:

Originally posted by JFB #05177:
I didn't want to clutter up your postings so I removed it (not the best quality). I thought Mike and I could exchange privately.

Your advice though is beyond what I would have even thought about related alignment settings.

Thus I'll just shut up, listen and try to learn!

No information is clutter IMHO. There is a wealth of extremely talented guys on this forum and the day I stop learning form our group is the day worm feast starts on my decaying butt.

Kirk,

Thank you very much for the info.
I will pull the door panel off and check all the points you mentioned. Over the years I have replaced the glass, installed taurus motors and replaced the outer cat whiskers. Somewhere along the way I messed up the adjustments.

The car is in hibernation mode right now in a friends garage. As soon as spring shows up and I get it home I will tear it apart and check everything you mentioned and let you know.

Thanks again,

Doug M[/QUOTE]

Sounds like your situation is minor. When you get into it this spring, feel free to call. My cell is 419-344-8148

Kirk,
Thanks for the info. Also, thanks JFB for the chassis drawing.
We did measure the track hub center to hub center at both sides. They were about the same. The rear lower control arm adjustment shims are removed. The rear upper arms are stock. The front upper control arms are custom adjustable units. The front lower control arms have been lengthened to minimize excessive scrub radius. The longer arms have been compared to straight stock arms. After aligning the car we then realized the wheel base dimension was longer than stock. I’m comfortable redesigning and making the suspension work but I would rather not reinvent the wheel and keep things as close to stock. We are trying to confirm that the chassis wasn’t modified. We are currently setting the steel flares so we want to confirm the wheels are in there correct location. The drawing JFB posted has a dimension in red of the distance between the front mounting hole for the lower rear control arm to the lower front control arm rear mounting tab. That’s what we need to determine the chassis has not been modified.

Thanks,
Mike

This was a cruddy old deck latch assembly that went thought restoration. It is an original unit and still has the factory pin in it which we salvage.

Another view. You can save all most anything with some TLC and a good plaiting shop.

These were restored also. The allen bolts are stainless with the outer surface flattened by sanding the face in a spinning drill so they fit flush into the catch assembly. The bolts can be philips stainless and plated yellow or clear cad.

quote:

Originally posted by Kirk Evans:
OK so you want to use the early original metal chrome front eyebrow bumpers, modify them to have an integrated LED in the edge and then re-chrome them, correct? Did you fill the valance divot where the original light use to set? There are lights that could be installed on the underside of your bumpers that would not require any chrome work---not a fitted cool custom job but you would not have to cut the bumpers.

Ever consider installing a set of valance light pods and using the original style clear lens lights with the Jon Hass LED conversion? The converted lights can be used as daytime running lights, nighttime parking lights and blinkers that change to yellow when blinking.

I make the pods but you have to open a clearance hole in the valance. Was working on a modified version that would not require cutting the clearance hole---not finished yet.

Found this for the rear bumpers.

Kirk - I would like to see what you have on refurbishing door hinges. Thanks

Along with Rodney's Question....

I have an issue with my driver's door "spring loaded stop" - it won't stay in the detent in the fully OPEN postion.

Is there something I can check there? I'd like to understand how this mechanism works and if it can be replaced / repaired.

Thanks -

I will shoot some better pictures of a complete rebuild soon. Here are the parts made to replace the old stop pins. The replacement pins are all made using standard bolts, a cut off wheel, small grinder a drill press to shape the heads so they look original. For the hinge pins I use drill rod and a reamer to re-cut the hinge holes. There a some tricks to the job that need pictures with a description so please hang in there, I'll try to get the hinge rebuild documented sometime in the next 30 days.

Thanks Kirk - Look forward to more ideas.

Chuck

Hi Kirk:
Thanks for volunteering so much info to forum members. I’ll take you up on your offer for expertise on mounting mirrors.
I currently just have a driver-side mirror which is glued to the vent window. It vibrates too much to be very useful, so I bought a different set of mirrors from one of the vendors. They came with a tube of Goop adhesive for mounting, but the back of the mirrors don’t really have any flat surfaces that would mate well with the window, and furthermore I have read about the poor adhesion properties of glass possibly resulting in an untimely detachment of the mirror at some point.
I had read either here or in the POCA email forum about fabricating plastic vent windows at home, then drilling through those to mount a mirror. Sounds ambitious but I was prepared to go that route. I would love to hear a better idea if you have one.
For a bonus question, these mirrors have motors in them, but in terms of wiring it’s just three wires coming out of a hole in the back. If you have an idea of how to figure out which connector to attach to them, and which controller would work with them, that would be great. The vendor just advised me to “look on ebay”—not a big help.
Thanks in advance for your advice!
Tim

Take a look at this:

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...381023856#1381023856

My mirrors have a lip that slides under the rubber on 2 sides and then usees 2 sided tape on the back vertical edge to keep the mirror from moving. The rubber holds the mirror tight.

Now in your case, you can cut a piece of thin sheet metal a bit larger on the bottom and top angle, attach it to the mirror back with flat head counter sunk screws, and slip the sheet metal under the rubber. Put the 2 sided tape on the back edge and pull the protective film off once the mirror is in place. I'll put additional pics on later today with a detailed explanation.

This is the mirror in it's raw state. I cut the mirror mounts off and add the new mount we make so the mirror fir the car correctly, the angle is right and you can see out of the passenger side.

A shot of the new design mounted. What car are those mirrors off of? Do you have another view?

Here is a back side view of the sheet metal mounted to the mirror mount. In this case the mount is hand built so I used rivets. You can use anything that will secure the metal to the plastic including panel epoxy but use some mechanical fasteners---just keep the flat or counter sunk.

Here it is being slid behind the rubber. You can see the orange tape shield that was left long so it can be pulled once the mount is in the correct position.

Pull the mirror out just a bit from the window by pushing it forward and then pull off the tape shield and press the mount into the glass. I usually use 2 layers of tape which seem to work the best. It will not vibrate or fall off.

Are your original mirrors on the car in the picture? Those look great but the a hand built mirror with what appears to be a bicycle mirror on a ball adjust adjustment epoxied to the fiberglass housing. ( had a customer send me one that fell off so I dissected it) The mirror mount system was original designed for the 2 wheeler and was most likely not intended to go 100+ MPH which is why it may not stay adjusted--IMHO

This is a 70s Ford electric mirror switch that switches from side to side and is period correct and small. I would like to know what if fits my self because they work great and are very easy to install. You can see the original Ford connecting plug in the center bottom. 8 wires--a hot, a ground, 3 left and 3 right

That is a push button starter from Jon Hass to the left of the mirror switch.

Thanks Kirk and Husker.

Here are two more shots of the new mirror, along with one of the old style at the bottom (that's the passenger side, sealed in a bag from the prior owner). The new ones are from PI Motorsports. I don't know where the old ones came from--the mirror vibrates inside the housing, even at idle, so other cars are just a blur.

Kirk, do you think with just 3 wires I have either horizontal or vertical movement plus a ground?

It only takes 3 wire to drive the mirror motor. 2 with one being a neutral all directions---up and down or 2 using the remaining wire for right to left with polarity changing at the switch for any direction change. 3 for the right mirror and 3 for the left mirror. The other 2 wires are going into the switch are for a ground and power. Some of the switches may have a different approach but you should be able to figure out the polarity change. We had to build a relay for the original GT5-S switch to be used with the Colt mirrors. I should still have one with the wiring diagram.