While you are doing that kind of metal work, here are some changes I found worth while.

1. Move the license plate frame up so the license plate fits:

http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/lp/lp.htm





2. I altered the decklid latch to use a standard latch found in every automotive hot rod vendor. With a regular pin there is no side to side movement of the deck lid:

http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera...latch/deck_latch.htm

3. I also welded over the rear button and actuated it with a bearclaw latch:



Put a cover over it to clean it up. It has since been painted:

I haven't posted on this thread for a while. That does however not mean that Work has stopped. I'll post the details later but here's the status of today.

The chassis is all together, everything aligned and set correctly. Almost all welds finished. Spend a lot of time hammer-fitting the fenders around the doors so they match the door skin as perfect as possible.

Next I'll pull the door skins from the doorframes and start work on fitting the aluminum door skins.

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OK, in the absence of progress on the chassis, I'll try and keep this thread alive with Pictures of a few parts I've aquired. Actually I got most of the leftovers from the Danish Team Witch Craft that developed and ran two panteras in the European GTC series from 2004 to 2008.

There's a lot of race stuff, including brakes, radiators, lightweight windshield, lots of ZF parts and special fibers parts.

Here are the brake calipers. They wen't through a lot of trouble (and Money) to get the permission from AP to reproduce a few sets of these AP Lockheed 8-piston Armadilo Calipers. They were homologated for the Pantera in '75 and are thus legal for use in FIA Historic competition. They are massive and according to the Team they gave them quite an advantage over the competition on brakes.

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They also designed their own radiator. This is a very tight fit in the chassis, actually I'll have to remove the headlight-bucket crossbar, to be able mount the radiator. The advantage is a much increased crosssection of the radiator core compared to fx the common Fluidyne. It's about 4 inches wider and 1-2 higher

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quote:
Originally posted by Kid:
Chances are big Doug only wants more pictures of those calipers... Smiler


Big Grin


Well as I said, I'm looking for something that does that job but fits the stock Campi wheels.

It is very difficult to beat the cost of the Wilwood's and there is an advantage to them in that you should be able to get parts for them for a bit longer.

I could use Kid's method of removing the excess metal that says Wilwood with a flat file then everyone would wonder.

Remember, I'm not bound by the "class rules" for vintage racing that you guys have there.

Those rules make it quite a bit more expensive to field a car when many of the original limited production parts of the time like the aluminum brake calipers need to be "reproduced".

Actually the Volvo R60 series brake calipers look like they are a good shot at adapting.

They're like Bud Light. "Taste good, less filling". Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by Push1267:
They are massive and according to the Team they gave them quite an advantage over the competition on brakes.


I believe that. The surface area of the brake pads is almost double that of the stock pads.

I was quoted $1900 for a front pair of the 18-4 aluminum "Girling" calipers but I doubt that they would fit the stock 8"x15" Campis.

The Aluminum Cobra/GT40/Mangusta calipers are available too but I don't see the point of spending that much money for single piston calipers.

Wilwood Ultralites are looking pretty good. 1/2 the price and fit the wheels. Like I said, "taste great, less filling".

These Allied's are sure pretty though. Too bad the brake dust is just going to eat them up alive?
Yes, I agree these calipers are primary for historic racing where you have to comply with regulations.

You can have several sets of Wilwoods for the price of one set of these Lockheeds !!

Below is another piece they developed - airintakes for the rear Windows. They bought the commen "ear-intakes" from the UIS vendors, and after deaming them "useless", they developed their own. They have two outlets, one for a closed airbox for the Webers, and the other for cooling of the fuel-tanks, one each side. I have the moulds for both intakes and airbox.

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quote:
Maybe I should wait to see what kind of engine goes in, and steal - uh...borrow - that instead :-)


Well, I haven't gotten very far with the engine. Only thing I know for sure is that it has to be an iron head 351 C - and it will be dry sumped. FIA won't allow me to use alloy heads and block.

Just started looking into the placement of the motor - how far can I move it forward and how much can I lower it.
Too bad for me, good for you Big Grin

Won't be the engine I will steal, as I have my mind set of a an alloy block and heads :-)

Need to rob a bank first though...lol Might need a fast car for that - can I borrow yours when it is finished? ;-)
Rob, both scoops have two ducts. I suppose one of the ducts could be used for cooling of the brakes, but I'm not sure airflow is effective enough along the sidescoops.
I do have seperate scoops they designed that sits underneath the car and direct air to the rear brakes. Same principle as the original Gr4 cars, but different design.

I've started on my aluminum doorskin project - just like the Gr4 cars had. Started on the driver side door by pulling the steel doorskin of a perfectly fine and rustfree door !! :-).

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The door skin need to be shaped to fit the doorframe, so don't attempt to mount these skins without access to a crimp/streatcher Tool. I did quite a bit of Work on the skin to make sure it would fit in the door opening and follow the contours of the fenders.

Here crimping the rear face of the skin.

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Things are a little slow on the forum, so here are a few progress pictures of my gr4 project.

I decided to add a upper rigidity-bar and hope that it will comply with FIA rules. I've already added some smaller stiffening plates in the rear part of the chassis (see earlier in the thread), but this bar, in my view, is the most important bolt-on addition you can add to the chassis, basically preventing the shock towers from flexing under load and hard braking. In combination with the roll cage this should stiffen the rear up considerebly.

This is a piece from Hall.

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quote:
Originally posted by Push1267:
Also added a few reinforcement plates to the rear mounts


Assembling my suspension parts again, I found out many of the mounts had different widths. Even worse, there was quite a variation in width of the new bushings I bought....duh. Had to have the grinder running overtime Roll Eyes The day I start working on my chassis in a way like you are currently doing, I'll take the time to get these things sorted out properly - read, the non-Italian way Big Grin
Thanks for the heads up. Things are going very slow at the moment.

I did the flare mock-up some time ago. Here are the fitting of the rear flares with the suspension and wheels on.

There's beén some discussion over the quality of the fiber (and steel) flares. These are from Byars, and are very nice. They fit right on with almost no modification.

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Urbain. I know that different amount of rivits are used on different cars.

I'm simply adhering to what the factory did on the Gr4 cars, which was 15 rivits in the rear and 13 in the front (i.e.; above the line on the side of the car) with a spacing of 92 mm.
Congratulations! There are a number of flared-fender clones running around the world in which the original fenders are still inside, making the whole flare system of dubious worth. FWIW, I had the same awful feeling when I cut our '72's front trunk for a dropped battery....
Larry, that was my plan to begin with, but after cutting of the lips the fender hasn't lost much stiffness.

With the flares in place with the Clecos only, the fender is still stiffer than it was before cutting (the fiber flare are very stiff in it self), so I think I'll leave it alone.

I looked at the factory cars, and they were the same - no rolling of the edges.
The flares was fitted with the Wheels on to make sure the Wheel was centered in the lip.

For some reason, the rear wheels are centered a Little towards ¨the rear from the factory. To correct this the Gr4 flare was squized i little and moved rearward (about an inch) where it meets the rocker panel.

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Also made progress on the Cage. Almost fully installed. It's from Sassa in Italy and fully FIA certified. It fits right in, but requires fabrication of attachment plates (such that it can be bolted in) and cutting and welding of the rear bars and the side bars.

Here it is installed.

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In typical fasion I tried getting as close to what the factory did to the original Gr4 cars - including how they did the attachment plates on the inner rockers. These are copies of the plates found in Les Grays factory Gr4 (thanks Ed Mendez for posting pictures of Les' car on facebook)

Sorry for the lousy quality - will take a better Picture NeXT time I'm in the workshop

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Your work looks amazing!! Really appreciate you keeping us up to date on your work. What a great journey.
A funny story about the fender flares on group4 cars. My red car was a Hall Super Pantera with all steel flares. I had wanted one of the big air dams for the front, so ordered one from Bob Byars. When it came in Les Gray and I were looking at it and there was no way it would fit my car or flares. We put it up to his car and the same thing. We then took one of his front air dam from his group4 race car and Put it up to my car and it fit perfectly. We were wondering what was going on. So we looked at a couple of other Panteras that had put on the group4 flares and it fit their car great. We couldn't figure out what the difference was. Then at a car show right after that we had about 3 or 4 group4 cars there and Les looks over at my car and then theirs and realizes that they had their flares on backwards. Next time you are at an event with a lot of group4 panteras take a look.
You presume that everyone is sane, would go to a Pantera vendor or at least copy a Pantera flare.

There are a number of Pantera owners I have come across that do not qualify on not even one of those accounts?

I've heard of using VW flares on these things.

Do not tell these people they are cutting their nose off to spite their face. They will go out and do it just because they can.
Comp2, great build on that aluminum air dam. I do not have half the talent.

Push1267, the air dam was from Bob Byars and I delivered it back to him personally along with my car because Don and Bob were putting new seats in my car and a few other things, but the fiberglass air dam was inches away from connecting to my flares and they saw it. And another interesting fact, Les gray, Bob Byars, and Don Byars all worked at Hall Pantera and helped build my car. Back then it was being built for Oliver Ring who is LLoyds partner in the ZF business and makes most of the gears and parts that LLoyd sells.
I think you are right, if some one bought the fiberglass group4 kit I do not think they could get the flares on the backwards. What I think happened was that when they made the mold they made them backwards. On the factory group4 the flares are wider in the front and narrower behind the wheel. But when you look at the car it is narrower in front and gets wider in back. So at some point someone thought the flares should go that way. By the way this was 8 years ago and may have been fixed back then. I really do not know.
BTW I love all the metal work you have done. The cars is amazing.
quote:
I didn't think I did either.


You guys kill me - in a good way.

All these threads are an inspiration to Pantera owners everywhere. You guys are showing us the "state of the art", the "art of the possible".

It's great to see the good work that is showcased here. All these threads encourage people like me to stretch a little bit, and see what WE can do.

Keep up the great work, and keep posting pictures. That's what this site is all about.

Rocky -
Just a small update on the Progress on the Gr4 car. Dragged the body outside the other day to mediablast the chassis seams in preparation for seam welding.

Then spend a few nights seam welding the most stressed areas of the chassis - maybe 50-60 % of the seams all together

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To replicate the original Gr4 cars I also decided to fit a flat decklid instead of the original ridged lid.

IMO the flat deck also gives the car a cleaner look.

Actually had to fit 2 decks, one in steel and one in fiberglass such that I 'll have the option to use the lighter fiber deck when the rules permits.

Here's a shot of the steel deck

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hey Push,
Haven't checked in for a while... Just went through 4 pages of your progress... Fantastic. Cutting the fenders had to be torture! Measure 21 times, move them a mm, measure another 12 times...stare at it for 20 minutes. Cut it in 3.5 minutes. Go vomit. Anyway..it looks Sweet Those steam rollers out back look awesome.

Keep up the great work man. Really fantastic.
Yes, these things take time (atleast for me). It may have taken weeks from when I first decided to cut the fenders until I actually did the cutting. Thinking, measuring, thinking .....

Meanwhile, I'm slowly continuing my efforts to replicate as many of the factory Gr4 mods.

Here I started doing the panel strengthening of the inner rockers by flaring holes. Studied a lot of Pictures of original Gr4 cars, and interestingly, the holes placement and size seem to vary a little from car to car. Apparently this was done by hand at the factory - I ended up somewhere in between.

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A while back I talked to Jerry ap PIM. The area you put lightening holes in the chassis below the door is an area he routinely adds a plate od steel to. A friend of his was killed in a crash and he said the lower panel there was the failure point.
quote:
The area you put lightening holes in the chassis below the door


Yes, I would like to see the failure point as well.

The holes are actually NOT for lightening (although that is a nice sideeffect) - once the holes have been flared/swaged they stiffen the plate up considerable, that was the reason the factory did it, and the reason I did it too (and for looks ofcourse).

The weak point of the chassis is the lower B-post area. I would assume this would be the area Jerry is referring too. This area is often (almost always) rusty on Panteras that has seen real world driving and rust in this area will weaken the chassis considerable.

I reinforced this area (if you go waaaay back in this thread you can see how) AND the roll cage will support this part of the chassis somewhat more. In addition I seamwelded the seams between the inner and center rocker a long the entire length.

BUT, by no Means a pantera is a safe car :-(.
quote:
Amazing attention to detail! Thanks for posting the incredible pictures! How do your window scoops/air ducts fit with the roll cage rear bars?


Thanks Ron. I could say the same of your Work. The scoop ducts (there are two in each side) fit right around the rear tower bar. I did weld in the bar such that it would just clear both ducts.
I have some friends that help out in high school robotics clubs that compete regionally and nationally. The have weight limits. They learned quickly you just can't drill enough holes to substantially reduce weight. Looks cool though. ;-)
quote:
Originally posted by Push1267:
quote:
The area you put lightening holes in the chassis below the door


Yes, I would like to see the failure point as well.

The holes are actually NOT for lightening (although that is a nice sideeffect) - once the holes have been flared/swaged they stiffen the plate up considerable, that was the reason the factory did it, and the reason I did it too (and for looks ofcourse).

The weak point of the chassis is the lower B-post area. I would assume this would be the area Jerry is referring too. This area is often (almost always) rusty on Panteras that has seen real world driving and rust in this area will weaken the chassis considerable.

I my car I reinforced this area (if you go waaaay back in this thread you can see how) AND the roll cage will support this part of the chassis somewhat more. In addition I seamwelded the seams between the inner and center rocker a long the entire length.

BUT, by no Means a pantera is a safe car :-(.


When Hall was building the "T-top" car and trying to stiffen the chassis enough to make the roof panels not squeak, he inserted at first a roll cage tube, then a lightened extrusion through the rocker panels on each side.

They bolted to the inner fender wells and the bottom of the roll bar.
Working on the last details before the chassis is send out for paint.

Here's an example of how one project creates another one.

I got two of these specially build race radiators, designed specifically for the Pantera by Aquila Racecars. They have a much larger radiator crosssection than other radiators available on the market. Therefore is's a very tight fit.

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This tight!

This create two issues

1) If I wan't to keep the headlight buckets, I will have to make the headlight bucket raising bar removable as the radiator won't go in-and-out of the chassis with the bar in place.
and

2) I can't use the electrical raising mechanism (which I didn't intend to in the first place)


The easy solution would be to junk the entire bucket raising mechanism and replace it with fixed headlights under a plexiglass cover. However, the factory cars retained the buckets, Thus in keeping with the relica/tribute theme of the build, I have to take a direction where I keep the buckets.

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One solution is to make a bar that can be separated in the middle with the bucket brackets bolted to the bar in the housing opening. This way the bar can be removed and the radiator installed/removed.

I made the bar in aluminum, saving a couple of pounds too

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Thanks for all the suggestions. However, as this car is going to see use mostly as a racecar I think I'll look for a more simple solution - and light weight. After all, it's very rare that the headlights are used.

Probably, I'll just remove the electric motor and keep the bracket with the gear such that I can raise the buckets manually. I'll need to trim the bracket to clear the radiator, but the gear should be possible to retain. I have a couple of complete spare gear/motor assemplies that I can play with.
Hi Kristian, I have used these ones with success on various projects. Beauty is they are light, strong and has internal electrical limit Switches at both fully extended and retracted. So that it can be operated with a standard reversing 2 position toggle Switch.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Linear-...t0l93SGClVhHQX0Zd4Xg
They come with various length and power and would be suitable to fit below one of the Buckets for a totally concealed installation.

best
Jan

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Hi Richard, not at all. When Kristian design/construct the Geometry of the Linkage he just needs to make the moving Arm the exact lenght that matches: fully retracted=Doors closed and fully extended=Doors open or visa versa. Of course it requires a bit of measuring and perhaps trial/error. But definately possible without trouble and then you avoid the hassle of external Switches. I looked at the wiring diagram briefly and should be possible to use the OE Light Switch and no modification to the Harness apart from shorting the set of wires on both OE limit Switches. But that has to be verified.
Goodroc wrote,
"Geometry of the Linkage he just needs to make the moving Arm the exact lenght that matches: fully retracted=Doors closed and fully extended=Doors open or visa versa."

Yes, that's true but as I see the problem there are two variables: the length of the "arm" that is attached to the headlight bar and the mounting point/geometry of the linear motor with respect to that arm. Changing either of them can effect either or both of the up and down position. The exact up position end point is not too critical, you just adjust the headlight alignment accordingly. But, if the down position is wrong, i.e. the bucket is closed all of the way before the limit switch is tripped the motor could burn out. Of course the stock system has this problem too but the limit switch stops make it easy to adjust. So, either a geometric solution using fixed limit switches or adding an external limit switch(s) would work. I'm just wondering which would be easier for a given situation.

Actually, I'm surprised that Gary "comp2" has not commented as he was working on this problem in 2009 but never posted his results.
http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...77274/m/93610454/p/1
He posted some interesting links. With the right kind of linear actuator (with a Potentiometer) and a "Linear actuator controller" the actuator can be commanded to go to programmed positions:
http://www.slickcar.com/info_linear_actuator.asp
http://www.slickcar.com/detail...ved-door-handles.asp
some more info on the controller:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/...t-Actuator,7477.html

I've not looked into making any of this work with the stock headlight circuitry and switch. My guess is that using external limit switches would be necessary.

If you don't care about that and are OK with putting in a separate switch to raise and lower the lights then a power window switch approach would work just fine: just hold the switch on until you get to the position you want (i.e. things stop moving when they hit a mechanical stop) and let go. Just make sure your actuator isn't strong enough to bend things!
Kristian is a very smart guy and he will be able to figure out the geometry very quickly. If someone can tell me how many Degrees of rotation the Headlight Bar is doing from closed to open I will happily provide an exact Drawing. There are several options for stroke length and that affects the length of the Arm and the time it takes for the Doors to open/close. If a 50mm stroke is used it is twice as fast to open/close as if a 100mm stroke is used. Two things are important 1) It works best if the Arm and the Actuator form an angle of 90° when the doors are half way open/closed. 2) You must construct it so that there is a possibility to adjust the position of the Actuator a few millimeters up and down in the fully closed position to compensate for wear and tear over time.

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You guys been sleeping? I used to make kits. I don't have time to mess with it any more. I sent my stuff to Scott so he could duplicate it. Might ask if he had time to mess with it:

http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/rhl/rhl.htm

Here are some adjustable brackets so you can see how to make them:



These are brackets to fit the bearing in the headlight bucket bracket which also strengthens it:









Here is a pannel for the short lift headlight "frog eyes"



Here is a video:

http://www.rc-tech.net/cars2/p.../hlight/MVI_0260.MOV
quote:
Originally posted by Push1267:
... car is going to see use mostly as a racecar I think I'll look for a more simple solution - and light weight. After all, it's very rare that the headlights are used....


wild thought...how about a gas spring that would open the headlights and a latch on the gear to hold them closed when pushed closed by hand. use an open limit switch to prevent the lights from burning when not open

(addition)
to operate the latch, I was thinking a door lock solenoid with a headlight close permissive limit switch that would be off the headlight on power
Nice solution Gary. As always, brilliant enginering and workmanship.

1 actuator operating the aluminum bar seems like the simple and light weight solution I'm looking for. I ordered one of the actuators Jan recommended, and will experiment with linkage when it gets here.
quote:
Originally posted by JFB #05177:
quote:
Originally posted by Push1267:
... car is going to see use mostly as a racecar I think I'll look for a more simple solution - and light weight. After all, it's very rare that the headlights are used....


wild thought...how about a gas spring that would open the headlights and a latch on the gear to hold them closed when pushed closed by hand. use an open limit switch to prevent the lights from burning when not open


Incredible idea Joe!
You could easily have a pull cable to release the catch and then simply push the doors down by hand to latch them back. It would be very light and simple to implement.

Ron
I agree. That would be very simple and lightweight.

A concern is what happens when the damper is released. Unless the damper has very low pressure, the buckets will snap open very violently.

I Wonder if there are short, slow releasing, low pressure dampers available from somewhere?
Hi Push,
I don't think you would be able to go to the local auto parts store for this application, due to the very points you mentioned. I would take a look at McMaster Carr. They have a large variety of lift struts with as low as 5 lbs force. I think so long as you match the strength to the need, this could be a sexy solution. An added thought.... to ensure stable function, w/o the doors bouncing, you may want to consider multiple low force struts. Just a thought...

Check out some of the options I found here..
McMaster Strut Link
Ok, the waiting has started. The body is ready for paint, but the paint shop is not. There's been a lot of small additions between the last post and this one, but this is what the body looks like waiting for transport.

I've decided to have the car painted with the steel deck and front Hood, I may have to use them at certain events. The fiberglass deck and aluminum Hood need some finishing before they are ready.

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I also enlarged the opening in the deck to make room for webers. The deck came of a car that was used for racing so it had allready been modified. So decided to modify the deck to replice that the factory did to the gr4 cars when they introduced webers.

Here the deck before cutting with mark-up

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Agree
As always Push.... as always... all I can say is "nice work" man. I love your attention to detail and workmanship.
I'm jealous about the deck lid having already been modified.. in a sick way.. :-) I was dreaming last week about putting webers on 6001 but just couldn't get myself to cut a good deck lid. I like the way you did it. Almost can't tell. Never seen it done that way. Very cool.

She's going to be a sweet ride. Keep the posts coming. They keep me fired up Big Grin
all the work is pure art!

the opening of the deck lid over the engine area looks like that should have been done origianlly to the car. can't wait to see the painted, then final results.

I bet that deck lid would look great with a modified mesh cover over stock air cleaner
Yes Rob, I probably wouldn't cut the decklid if it was uncut to begin with. I have the original uncut deck for the car in storage.

This decklid is a spare I bought that came of a race car (#1508). It actually was first used for Bonneville speed records, so it has had a cover of sorts mounted for aero reasons. There were lots of holes to fill. then it was briefly used for Gr4 racing in europe on one of the Danish Team witch Craft gr4 cars. Since it was more or less ruined, I may have gone a little overboard with the hole punching !!! Smiler

The idea of enlarging the entire opening is not mine - as mentioned, the Detomaso factory did this to the factory Gr4 cars, when they switched from running Holleys to Webers.

This car will be mostly for racing (I intend to do some historic racing under FIA rules), so there will be no engine cover

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I first saw that decklid modification in Las Vegas about 10 years ago on another Weber equipped car. When I first viewed it I wondered how they had managed to avoid cutting the decklid like everyone else did. Only after comparing it to an adjacent car with a stock decklid did I realize what they had done. To make the alteration more invisible the owner had finished the opening with edging trim the same as a stock car.

I have always felt it was the most pleasing decklid modification to accommodate the Webbers. Congratulations on discovering it and putting it into play on your car.

I did not know that it had ever been done as a factory modification.

Larry
Small update. Car has been sitting waiting for a while now. The paint shop is pretty busy with winter fender-benders, so I'll have to wait a little more.
Decided to do some of the paint preb myself, so armed with lots of materials from the paintshop I spend quite some time getting the finish to my liking.
The car was basically straight to begin with so it just needed a thin coat of primer and filler. 2-3 rounds of filler and bloksanding and it's ready for the final Work at the paintshop.
One of the paint supplyers came up with some paint samples based on the original 71/72 paint codes for the red, but I wasn't sure if they are right (seemed too dark), so he's right now analyzing some remains of the original 71 red on an old headlight bucket I had lying around. It's kind of orange-red with a brownish tone.

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quote:
Originally posted by Push1267:
quote:
That rear view is sick..! Holy crap, can't wait to see it with the rubber in the wells.


Funny that you should mention that - I had that same urge some time ago Big Grin


I like it. The flares fit nicely. What color are you going to use?
As mentioned in the post, we are working on analyzing the original factory red - so it's going red/Black.

Surpricingly, one of the paint companies we talked to had the formulas for the original 1972 red (there are two different codes) - but the one they test sprayed did not match the remnants of the factory red I had all that well, I thought, - so they're back to work on one of the other codes.
Looks absolutely great Kristian, I am sure it will be a real Beast when its finished.



quote:
posted January 26, 2016 11:55
There are two reds. Mine is Pantera Red #2. By deduction, there must be a #1 but more likely just called Pantera red.
Red and black are the factory race colors.
Interesting because they are the German national colors as well.


I am sure Kristian knows Black and Red is factory race colors and that is probably exactly why he choose that combination Smiler But Panteradoug I am not sure about the relation to the German national colors you are making ??????? If you are relating to their Flag it is black/red/yellow!
OK, as mentioned, we found the original 1971 V108 red on a spare headlight bucket we had lying around. The color is from a very early car chassis #1395. It's very orange-red-like and looks pretty similar to what I have seen in pictures on original Gr4 cars and also early 1971-72 production cars. So, that's the color we were aiming for.

We stripped the top layers off the bucket and polished through to the original red color underneath.

A paint scan came up with a near perfect match from a .... Renault (!!!). I can't distinguish the test spray from the original color so this will be a go :-).

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quote:
Originally posted by Push1267:
OK, as mentioned, we found the original 1971 V108 red on a spare headlight bucket we had lying around. The color is from a very early car chassis #1395. It's very orange-red-like and looks pretty similar to what I have seen in pictures on original Gr4 cars and also early 1971-72 production cars. So, that's the color we were aiming for.



We stripped the top layers off the bucket and polished through to the original red color underneath.

A paint scan came up with a near perfect match from a .... Renault (!!!). I can't distinguish the test spray from the original color so this will be a go :-).


Its hard to see on my 2 pics but my painter used a Ford red from the early 70's to paint my engine bay and the bonnet and boot lid after I stripped the engine out to tidy it up. It is a little orange which initially I didn't care for, but now I really like it and it brightens up the car, whereas some dark reds can be dull. None of the paint has yet been polished.

quote:
Originally posted by Rocky:
Peter -

That looks great!


Rocky


You have no idea how nice it is to have a kind remark.

It makes it all worthwhile for an amateur.

Cheers Rocky.

ps am tidying up the front area where its been jacked up and split open over the last many many years, but my skills with the welder Wouldn't cut the mustard as much as this truly interesting refit which has bought me much more knowledge of the Pantera that I didn't know.
I guess it's time for an update on the progress on my gr4 car which, well, is close to none. The car still sits in the paintshop and not much has happened. Hopefully things will get going this month - atleast that's what he has promised.

Meanwhile a few parts have turned up. It took AP RACING 6 month to finish the rear calipers for the car. Again, these have to be homologated for them to be used in historic events here in europe.

I had the choice between the Girling 16/4s made by Bg Development and the AP Lockheeds of AP RACING historic range. I went with the APs (remember, I have AP 8-piston calipers for the fronts), as they are lighter than the Girlings and have a greater brake pad area. They are availible with different piston sizes, including the 41.3 mm homologated for the Gr4 Pantera. Also, a feature I liked was that they have blank lug mounts, meaning I can drill them to match the bolt pattern on the rear uprights and thus avoid using adapters.

Here's a Picture:

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Another neat piece is this dual master pedal assemply kit that Scott (SACC restorations) put together for me. Pretty much his standard set-up, but with Girling masters instead of the Wilwoods. The kit includes a proportioning valve and a remote adjustable balance bar.

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I'm pretty obsessed with getting the red color for this car right, i.e., getting it as close to the original red as possible.

So i did one further check of the color we came up with. The red was mixed from a scan from the original red on an early '71 headlight bucket BUT, is the early '71 red, the same as the red used on the later '72 euro GTS and Gr4??

So I send the paintsample to Chris Beck in Switzerland to compare it to his original GTS red.

I think it's pretty convincing, they compare really well. Good thing is, that the color is a modern paint from a Renault that can be mixed at any time.

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quote:
Originally posted by Push1267:
The rotors are 304x28 mm, also from AP, Again size is dictated by what is allowed by the FIA


Hello Kristian
Did you build some hats for those rotors ?
I've got the same for my gr4 project, still not have the hats ...
Thanks
Philippe
Philippe,


I do have some set of hats, but I'm not sure they will be right. I'll be experimenting with rotor offset when I get the car back.

The hats for the AP rotors will likely need to be custom made. AP doesn't offer universal hats.

Wilwood offers a few hats with the AP 12X7 rotor circle and ford 5X4.5 bolt circle that may work.
Hello Push,

on your original post a long time ago now you mentioned the history of your car, sold by Claud etc etc.

I also own a 72 Euro GTS number 3840 and am interested in where you found out about the history of your car.
Santiago Detomaso I cannot contact for some reason

regards Peter
quote:
Originally posted by Push1267:
Philippe,


I do have some set of hats, but I'm not sure they will be right. I'll be experimenting with rotor offset when I get the car back.

The hats for the AP rotors will likely need to be custom made. AP doesn't offer universal hats.

Wilwood offers a few hats with the AP 12X7 rotor circle and ford 5X4.5 bolt circle that may work.


Thanks Kristian
that was my idea Wink
Here's a $100 project for those wanting to shed some weight of their Pantera.

Building an aluminum skinned front lid.

This is of course for my Gr4 build, but it would be pretty cool on a street Pantera too.

I had an old accident bend front lid lying around that I wanted to experiment with. So I separated the outer skin from the inner structure.

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