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I beleive this car is also on ebay now. It is a really high mileage car, but looks solid and sorted. It does need a lot of cleaning up,though. I understand that all panteras need a little(or a lot) of work, but this car is at the top of my price range which doesn't leave much in the way of fixing it up money(good paint,engine compartment detailing,etc.).Its a solid contender for purchase,and so far it's at the top of my list,but after all these years of waiting I'm trying to hold out for something a little closer to my ideal.Thanks for the info and keep em coming! I feel like a kid in a candy store looking at rows and rows of delicous candy in glass jars, but my grubby little hand holds but one shiny quarter.Which do I choose.........
quote:
It is a really high mileage car, but looks solid and sorted.

Don't let high mileage scare you away. Cars are like airplanes - hangar rot kills them. And most of the stories you read on this forum and the mail list about breakdowns when out for a drive occur to cars that are seldom driven. A car that's driven is often (but not always) a car that tends to be in better working order and better maintained.

When I was looking for a Pantera, I looked at cars ranging from 22,000 original miles up through 85,000 miles. The 85,000 mile car was the all-around best running, driving, handling, and braking car of the bunch, and that's the one I bought! I drove it daily for the first few years and it now has 106,000 miles. And, it's time to freshen the engine and change the clutch.
quote:
Its a solid contender for purchase,and so far it's at the top of my list,but after all these years of waiting I'm trying to hold out for something a little closer to my ideal.


I don't want to sound negative, but you have self imposed constraints you are dealing with;
1. An L model dash (i.e. '73/74)
2. Color black
3. Max $40K price

If for arguments sake half the Pantera's built were L models (between 73 and '74) that would give you maybe 2,500 or so (god knows how many are actually left today), then how many of those left are currently black and for sale and in the sub $40K range? Do the probablities and I guess that you have maybe 2, max 3 Pantera's out there at any one time that meet your criteria.

Maybe if you were prepared to add a degree of freedom in your search it would be easier e.g. settle for another color with a view to driving it now and painting it later on.

Good luck in the search anyway, it's half the fun.
Last edited by joules
Thanks for the input Julian. I understand what your saying,but at this point in my search I need to look for what I really want.For the first time,ownership of a pantera is not a daydream but a certainty,and I want the car I've been daydreaming about. As the search continues I can always adjust my expectations,but till then ............
#6641 is under-going some winter changes, like new carburation, engine dress up, etc. Will probably be taking it to Pantera Performance to have the floor pans dropped. Don't plan much else for now. Debating whether to go to Vegas with the local club. But I wouldn't drive 6641 as I'd like to get better acquainted with it before a long trip.

I saw your orange car (Does 200) was for sale in Germany. Was that a surprise to you? Still think it would have look mighty fine sitting in my garage, but I understand the power/need of the almighty $$.
quote:
Originally posted by modok:
Hey "Does 200", whats a lot more cash?

I think he is in the $90K range, but one of the finest I have ever seen. The car probably has double that in the car (which is typical, getting about 1/2 on the sale of a good modification/restoration job). Maybe cash talks though for a lower price, I am not sure. If you like black, and modified Group 4 and don't mind the extra $, then you will be happy. Good modified show cars are in that range, so it depends what you want, essentially you get what you pay for.
Last edited by does200
Wow. I'm sure the car is worth it,but it's about a light year out of my price range.Thanks for the info. BTW,there is a car on ebay that is listed as a 1973(item#140200223806)vin#5405.It is advertised as a 73 with euro gauges but the photos of the engine compartment look like it has the 80's style fender wells. Anyone have info on this car?
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It is advertised as a 73 with euro gauges but the photos of the engine compartment look like it has the 80's style fender wells.


Strange indeed, I see even the front hood compartment is of a 'squared off' design Confused I know of no other square inner fender car of this age. In looking at the rear photo's in comparison to #9178, the distance between fenders appears narrower. Could this be a car someone has rebuilt with sheet metal?
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Originally posted by OnTheJuice:
I'm about as far from an expert you can get, but it looks to me like the VIN was restamped. Doesn't it look like a "5" was stamped over a "9"? Or am I imagining it?

I think what you are seeing is a piece of carpet fuzz hanging down over the 5.
I'd have to agree with DeTom, I think it is an illusion from the carpet fibers.

Despite the fact it has a mouse hair dash, Euro gauges, later style clock & seats (All which could be added easily), in looking more closely at the Ebay photo's this car also has;

1. US impact bumpers front & rear
2. US sidelights (Euro cars had none or a button front side indicator lamp)
3. Early style heater control panel (an '87 would have the later Maserati unit)
4. Narrow heater/air vents (Later cars had wider vents)
5. Handbrake on the righthand side of the center console. (cars after 92** had the e-brake on the drivers side of the console)
6. Std door panels (later cars had crinkle leather)

Without a thorough inspection of this car and/or some sort of provenance in writing I think it would be difficult to establish it's true history. I presonally err toward it being a US car with some updated features and rebuild of the inner fenders front and rear.
I asked Chuck Melton (Prova Mo) about the VIN, etc. Here is his reply:



Thanks for the tip-off. This is something the DeTomaso Forum might appreciate.



David found the ebay listing… Note the over-stamping on the VIN…. Hmmm.



THPN is common to all the Panteras (except the 150 USA GTS cars that have THGT)



The next character is “L” (which is only valid for 1971 model cars.)



(LC LK LD LE LL LY LS LT LJ LU LM LP)



It would appear that one character is missing.



Next typically would be the 0 (zero) followed by the last 4 digits…



This is truly ODD.



As you say it has squared-off inner fenders, Later side mount ZF brackets (1971’s did not have this).

L bumpers, and Euro-L dash (and euro speedo – 300Kmh)…Italian gauges…



And a number of other odd or mix-and-match features (exhaust tips and L bumper)

And yes the “real” 5405 is already in the Registry.



Chuck



Here is a eBay auction:



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other-Makes-Pantera-DeTo...dZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
Yes I started typing a reply this morning suggesting to look on the Provamo Registry for duplicate #5405...then thought better of it as you have to give up your first born to get access.

Would be nice to be able to get in there and pull that carpet away to see what is going on.
quote:
Originally posted by Joules5:
Yes I started typing a reply this morning suggesting to look on the Provamo Registry for duplicate #5405...then thought better of it as you have to give up your first born to get access.

Would be nice to be able to get in there and pull that carpet away to see what is going on.


I’ve never been there but it's in the Worldwide Registry http://www.qv500.com/detomasoregistry.php The Worldwide Registry is open and free for anyone to use.

Mike
quote:
I’ve never been there but it's in the Worldwide Registry http://www.qv500.com/detomasoregistry.php The Worldwide Registry is open and free for anyone to use.


Yes, that's where my cars are now as I got bumped from that other one for not providing photos and what sort of crap is it when somoene else can register your cars for membership?

Ben's QV500 site is just a breath of fresh air, I love the look and feel of it and it's the way a registry should be; FREE access for everyone
Julian,

Reading you comment/criticism of my website compelled me to reply, publically.

You did not get "kicked-off". You just never submitted any photos. The photos of your car I took myself at a car show (Monterey). I asked that you send a few additional photos, like the interior, engine, and front trunk to complete the photo page for the car. You have yet to send them.

The Registry is based on the "share" system.
You share with others, and others share with you. Simple. If you can't handle that, fine.
But no "First-born" is required, just submit an entry. OR...

For those that own a car already in the Registry
there is a process to gain control (password protected) of the entry. Details are in the FAQs page, but the bottom line is a very small amount of proof - a few pics.
Some proof is required to maintain the integrity and quality of the Registry.

Ben's site is decent, but there is no way to search. Long ago I offered to work with Ben, I thought working together we could make something bigger, better and more flexible than what we both seperately might provide, but I didn't get any replies. Now the Provamo Registry is the fastest growing, largest (over 1,200 entries),most detailed, and most flexible resource available anywhere (in the world - grin).

Also, Ben's site now lists 5405, but it is the "Mystery VIN" car, not the real car.
What is the point of a Registry if it contains mistakes?

ProvaMo has (photos of) the real 5405.

ProvaMo also shows photos of the Mystery VIN car, including a PHOTO of the VIN that has generated so much interest.

(Under the Mystery Cars section).

I called the owner and had a long talk with him back in January. I felt it was important, fair and necessary to "talk with the source" to maintain accuracy and integrity. I requested a few additional photos to better document the car, and asked for the ZF and motor number for example. I gave him some time to reply.
I never received a reply or any photos, apparently he didn't want to...

share.

Everyone is treated the same at ProvaMo. If you want access to this resource, share. Provide the necessary photos to complete the entry, and you are all set, Julian.

Just like my offer to anyone and everyone.
Add an entry to the Registry (with photos) and you will have access to the Registry.

Easy. Simple. Fair. Share.

Chuck Melton
www.ProvaMo.com
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