Good Morning!
I am trying to find out if my chassis # for my 1974 Orange Pantera is period correct.
Could someone give me a chassis breakdown by year's. Again my chassis # is 8735
Thank you.....
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I'd be glad to assist, but I have no idea what you mean by a "period correct" chassis.
Can you be more precise about what information you are seeking?
Also, are you sure your VIN's last four digits are 8735? Or perhaps that is the engine block #?
Your VIN should read THPNXX0XXXX.
Chassis #'s in the 8000 range are basically thought to be nonexistent. See this from the Pantera History section on the Home Page:
DeTomaso made a jump in chassis numbering between the last Vignale coach, 7554 (?), and the first Maggiora coach, 9001. Bill Van Ess, an esteemed historian of the DeTomaso marque, claims the Pantera with chassis 9001 was assembled on June 13, 1976. One odd-ball Pantera has a chassis number that falls within the gap in the chassis numbers, a group 3 Pantera with chassis 8472.
Larry
Can you be more precise about what information you are seeking?
Also, are you sure your VIN's last four digits are 8735? Or perhaps that is the engine block #?
Your VIN should read THPNXX0XXXX.
Chassis #'s in the 8000 range are basically thought to be nonexistent. See this from the Pantera History section on the Home Page:
DeTomaso made a jump in chassis numbering between the last Vignale coach, 7554 (?), and the first Maggiora coach, 9001. Bill Van Ess, an esteemed historian of the DeTomaso marque, claims the Pantera with chassis 9001 was assembled on June 13, 1976. One odd-ball Pantera has a chassis number that falls within the gap in the chassis numbers, a group 3 Pantera with chassis 8472.
Larry
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It's interesting -
There are pictures in ProvaMo (none of the VIN plate or footbox or dash tag, though).
Obviously a Late L-Model with the single pod dash.
It has a nice set of single slot Campys on it....
Rocky
There are pictures in ProvaMo (none of the VIN plate or footbox or dash tag, though).
Obviously a Late L-Model with the single pod dash.
It has a nice set of single slot Campys on it....
Rocky
There were no "original" chassis in the 8000 range. The last Vignale coach known to me was numbered 7554. That coach was manufactured in 1974, but the car assembled with that coach wasn't assembled until 1976. The first Maggiora coach was numbered 9001, it was also assembled in 1976.
Chassis with numbers in the 8000 range are known in each case to have been re-numbered by the factory after 1976. What the factory's reasoning for re-numbering was ... we don't have documentation. We suspect it may have been an upgrade from one model to another. Chuck Melton the registrar is the only person who may have new information on this subject.
Chassis with numbers in the 8000 range are known in each case to have been re-numbered by the factory after 1976. What the factory's reasoning for re-numbering was ... we don't have documentation. We suspect it may have been an upgrade from one model to another. Chuck Melton the registrar is the only person who may have new information on this subject.
George,
I am attempting to upload pictures of the ID plates. The car, and ID plates are very original I suspect. This is my second pantera and while I am no expert, I know my way around the cars to recognize an unmoletsed car. I am told by a friend that the car's VIN containing an "R" is very unique. I appreciate the help, here are pictures of the VIN Plates, thank you, Brian
I am attempting to upload pictures of the ID plates. The car, and ID plates are very original I suspect. This is my second pantera and while I am no expert, I know my way around the cars to recognize an unmoletsed car. I am told by a friend that the car's VIN containing an "R" is very unique. I appreciate the help, here are pictures of the VIN Plates, thank you, Brian
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Second tag picture
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Ok......you have pictures of the car tags. The "R" in the year slot and the "T" month are confusing. Could someone provide a contact for Chuck Melton? Thank you, Brian
Did you see the pictures of the tags? What is your thought?
George,
I have been doing some research and found out that there is another car in the registry that has an 8000 series number. My car was registered and built in 7/74. So, how can it be registered in 1974 and built in 1976? I don't understand your reasoning. Am I missing something? I will write Chuck, but it is my understanding he will not supply information on other cars. Thank you, Brian
I have been doing some research and found out that there is another car in the registry that has an 8000 series number. My car was registered and built in 7/74. So, how can it be registered in 1974 and built in 1976? I don't understand your reasoning. Am I missing something? I will write Chuck, but it is my understanding he will not supply information on other cars. Thank you, Brian
The Pantera was assembled in two steps. The chassis were built in Turin Italy at the Vignale coachworks. That build date was encoded into the VIN number and stamped on the coach. The coaches were trucked to Modena Italy for final assembly, where the drive train, suspension, brakes and steering were installed. The date of final assembly was attached to the driver's door with a riveted tag. During the Ford production years the "final assembly" date was usually about a month after the date the coach was assembled (the VIN date). During the "Post Ford" years the final assembly could have taken place months or years after the date the coach was assembled.
The Pantera with the highest chassis number manufactured for North America, and imported by Ford, is #7380. This is very well documented. Vignale stopped manufacturing Pantera coaches in August of 1974. We know that De Tomaso acquired about 150 to 200 left-over chassis from Ford/Vignale afterwards. The build-dates of these coaches are coded THPNPU or THPNPM. That's the date encoded in the VIN, not the date on the door. Notice THPNRT is not a 1974 build date, and was never stamped into the coach of any Pantera built at Vignale ... not originally anyway.
So you see, 7580 (7380 + 200) is approximately the highest possible chassis number originally manufactured at Vignale. The highest numbered chassis actually known to me is #7554. So far none of this explains the 8000 series VIN number, nor the "RT" build date of the coach. None of this jibes with the 4/74 build date on the door tag either. Final assembly in April 1974 should have a chassis VIN in the range of THPNNE06900.
Panteras with chassis numbers greater than 7380 were slowly assembled by De Tomaso after August 1974. They ran-out of spare chassis in the early months of 1976. The first non-Vignale chassis, manufactured by Maggiora, was #9001, circa mid-1976.
All Panteras with chassis numbers in the 8000 range have been re-numbered at some time in the past.
Ask Chuck for his experience in the matter.
The Pantera with the highest chassis number manufactured for North America, and imported by Ford, is #7380. This is very well documented. Vignale stopped manufacturing Pantera coaches in August of 1974. We know that De Tomaso acquired about 150 to 200 left-over chassis from Ford/Vignale afterwards. The build-dates of these coaches are coded THPNPU or THPNPM. That's the date encoded in the VIN, not the date on the door. Notice THPNRT is not a 1974 build date, and was never stamped into the coach of any Pantera built at Vignale ... not originally anyway.
So you see, 7580 (7380 + 200) is approximately the highest possible chassis number originally manufactured at Vignale. The highest numbered chassis actually known to me is #7554. So far none of this explains the 8000 series VIN number, nor the "RT" build date of the coach. None of this jibes with the 4/74 build date on the door tag either. Final assembly in April 1974 should have a chassis VIN in the range of THPNNE06900.
Panteras with chassis numbers greater than 7380 were slowly assembled by De Tomaso after August 1974. They ran-out of spare chassis in the early months of 1976. The first non-Vignale chassis, manufactured by Maggiora, was #9001, circa mid-1976.
All Panteras with chassis numbers in the 8000 range have been re-numbered at some time in the past.
Ask Chuck for his experience in the matter.
George, I thank you for your detailed response. I have reached out to Chuck to begin the research on the life of Chassis #8735.
Brian
Brian
Brian, what do the rear wheel houses look like in the engine compartment? Are they rounded one piece stampings, or are they squared-off with sharp creases and sharp corners?
By the way, the chassis' original VIN should be stamped on top of the driver foot box in the front boot.
By the way, the chassis' original VIN should be stamped on top of the driver foot box in the front boot.
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Hey guys, I am researching a Pantera I bought at Barrett Jackson VIN - THPNRT08735. I was following the blog up to the point where the factory renumbered vehicles with an 8000 build sequence. Then the conversation went to the green custom vehicle and the car being totaled. The car I own is 1974, orange clean looking car. I've owned a few Panteras and feel this car is clean and original as the title states, 21,000 miles. Please provide any information or direction privately.
Thank you, Brian
Thank you, Brian
How about answering my last question about the rear wheel houses?
If the VIN number on the footbox is visible please post a picture of it here.
I would also enjoy learning what you learned from Chuck Melton ... if anything?
If the VIN number on the footbox is visible please post a picture of it here.
I would also enjoy learning what you learned from Chuck Melton ... if anything?
George,
I believe I stated in early messages that I have owned three Panteras and am very familiar with the cars. In the previous messages I stated the car is very straight and original with 21k miles. I don't understand why you would ask if the fenders are squared? Am I missing something? Yes, of course the fenders are rounded. And no I have learned nothing yet from ProvaMo, but I am in communication with Chuck who has asked some very good questions.
The only two issue I have, are that the plate over the foot well looks different then a normal plate and that the VIN is in the 8000s. The rest of the car is original, and correcrt.
I have received no help or good information from the blog and the club to date. Again, I am working with Chuck and have just now started to see some progress. This car is out of the ordinary, if it were in the normal sequence we wouldn't be discussing it. I am looking for someone that might know about the "one offs", the cars that may have been directly imported, renumbered, or a European car titled in the US. I am in search of someone that may know about the "UNIQUE" few occasions a car was imported, shipped, sold or brought to the US.
Thanks for asking questions, but I am looking for direction and answers. Thank you, for your interest and for taking the time to write. There are no pictures attached because this site cannot accommodate a normal picture. So sorry, but I cannot supply a simple picture of a fender, or VIN plate. I would also like you to know that I appreciate the finger pointing out the ID plate over the foot well, but it wasn't neccessary. I am fully aware of where the plates are located on a Pantera. Thanks again, Zog
I believe I stated in early messages that I have owned three Panteras and am very familiar with the cars. In the previous messages I stated the car is very straight and original with 21k miles. I don't understand why you would ask if the fenders are squared? Am I missing something? Yes, of course the fenders are rounded. And no I have learned nothing yet from ProvaMo, but I am in communication with Chuck who has asked some very good questions.
The only two issue I have, are that the plate over the foot well looks different then a normal plate and that the VIN is in the 8000s. The rest of the car is original, and correcrt.
I have received no help or good information from the blog and the club to date. Again, I am working with Chuck and have just now started to see some progress. This car is out of the ordinary, if it were in the normal sequence we wouldn't be discussing it. I am looking for someone that might know about the "one offs", the cars that may have been directly imported, renumbered, or a European car titled in the US. I am in search of someone that may know about the "UNIQUE" few occasions a car was imported, shipped, sold or brought to the US.
Thanks for asking questions, but I am looking for direction and answers. Thank you, for your interest and for taking the time to write. There are no pictures attached because this site cannot accommodate a normal picture. So sorry, but I cannot supply a simple picture of a fender, or VIN plate. I would also like you to know that I appreciate the finger pointing out the ID plate over the foot well, but it wasn't neccessary. I am fully aware of where the plates are located on a Pantera. Thanks again, Zog
George wasn't asking about the fenders. He was asking about the wheel houses. IE: Open the rear hatch and take a picture of the engine compartment with the trunk tub OUT. The difference between rounded and angular gives a good clue on when it was built.
Posting pictures on this site is very easy. How do you think all the pictures on the site got here?
Sorry for the snippy response but your's was that way to people only trying to help you. We don't know who you are or how knowledgeable you are. I know plenty of people that have owned 3 Pantera's that couldn't or shouldn't work on their own cars so just because you have owned 3 doesn't mean we know your knowledge level.
Posting pictures on this site is very easy. How do you think all the pictures on the site got here?
Sorry for the snippy response but your's was that way to people only trying to help you. We don't know who you are or how knowledgeable you are. I know plenty of people that have owned 3 Pantera's that couldn't or shouldn't work on their own cars so just because you have owned 3 doesn't mean we know your knowledge level.
quote:I don't understand why you would ask if the fenders are squared?
George did not ask that.
He asked this:
"...what do the wheel houses look like in the engine compartment? Are they rounded one piece stampings, or are they squared-off with sharp creases and sharp corners?"
It is going to be hard to help you if your reading comprehension skills prevent you from clearly understanding what we write.
You also wrote:
"Please provide any information or direction privately."
The subject of your uncommon VIN is of interest to all of us. Taking this thread to private messages deprives The Family of the opportunity to gain knowledge, spark memories, and keep the thread updated and archivally available for future readers.
As for photos, yes it is a pain to have to resize them to less than 300KB. A work-around is to upload your photos to a photo-sharing website and post URL links to those individual photos in your postings to this forum.
We are trying to help you here. Please work with us, not against us.
Larry
quote:Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:
...
As for photos, yes it is a pain to have to resize them to less than 300KB. A work-around is to upload your photos to a photo-sharing website and post URL links to those individual photos in your postings to this forum.
...
Larry
My MS software came with "Office Picture Manager" which easily converts photos to Forum friendly size.
Ditto on the Other's comments of being interested in your car's history
Brian my intentions are always to be helpful. Never to insult or embarrass you, or give you any reason to be defensive.
The Panteras built after the Vignale coaches ran-out, beginning with chassis #9001, had squared-off rear wheelhouses. The reason for my question is that the first 100 of those Panteras, with coaches built by Maggiora, were the subject of a recall. It occurs to me that some owners may find their car being the subject of a recall a reason for wanting to re-number it.
My reason for wanting a picture of the VIN plate on the foot box, is to determine if its the type that has a window cut-out of it, making the VIN stamped into the chassis visible, or if it is a solid plate with the VIN stamped into the plate itself. My guess is that the VIN plate is the solid type, hiding what lies below. If that's the case, and it were my car, I would remove the plate to see what the number on the chassis below the plate actually is. There's a chance the original number has been brazed-in to eliminate it, and even a possibility a new number has been stamped into the chassis where the original number was, but there's only one way to find out.
-G
The Panteras built after the Vignale coaches ran-out, beginning with chassis #9001, had squared-off rear wheelhouses. The reason for my question is that the first 100 of those Panteras, with coaches built by Maggiora, were the subject of a recall. It occurs to me that some owners may find their car being the subject of a recall a reason for wanting to re-number it.
My reason for wanting a picture of the VIN plate on the foot box, is to determine if its the type that has a window cut-out of it, making the VIN stamped into the chassis visible, or if it is a solid plate with the VIN stamped into the plate itself. My guess is that the VIN plate is the solid type, hiding what lies below. If that's the case, and it were my car, I would remove the plate to see what the number on the chassis below the plate actually is. There's a chance the original number has been brazed-in to eliminate it, and even a possibility a new number has been stamped into the chassis where the original number was, but there's only one way to find out.
-G