Coils

I used an Accell distributor 20 years ago and it immediately stretched out the advance springs.

Their ignition components are "heavy duty" though as the Bakelite is cast thicker than stock is.

The major problem with Accell to me is they are just plain ugly.

I guess all the other colors were already picked by other manufacturers?

OZ-man, Accel products are OK- often better than production but not used in high-end race cars. As far as coils are concerned, its often better to use a package of components from one mfgr rather than a mix-and-match from many suppliers. Most e-coils (the ones that look like transformers) are interchangeable on electronic ignitions, and a few are production (or Chinese) parts inside an extruded aluminum heat-sink. For extra cost....

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:


I guess all the other colors were already picked by other manufacturers?

I like yellow

quote:

Originally posted by Bosswrench:
OZ-man, Accel products are OK- often better than production but not used in high-end race cars. As far as coils are concerned, its often better to use a package of components from one mfgr rather than a mix-and-match from many suppliers. Most e-coils (the ones that look like transformers) are interchangeable on electronic ignitions, and a few are production (or Chinese) parts inside an extruded aluminum heat-sink. For extra cost....

I was thinking of trying a e-coil with my Bosch electronic trigger (hall effect).

There was a bit of talk on another thread about MSD boxes. I've used them, but they've not lasted long (long enough for me). They work great while they are going but can leave you stranded.

I feel a coil with a bit more punch is a whole lot more simple than a electronic box full of gizmos that nobody seems to know much about.

I've heard the e-coils are more efficient than the traditional style coil so for the same current draw you get more bang for your buck. Like the coil used on the GM HEI.

It's just a matter of which coil ?

I am currently using the Pantera-Electronics Ignition with a Ford Motorsport (now Ford Racing) electronic distributor.

Mr.Haas has a list of coils he recommends using with his device and rates them as to good, better, best, etc.

I am using the Crane Fireball coil.

You need to be careful with this ignition. It throws lightening bolts to the plugs and you don't want to be mistaken as a spark plug.

I think the significant comment he makes in general about coils is that in his research he could not find any cylindrical coils that were capable of producing sufficient voltage.

Here is the link for the device. The installation instructions are there as a hyperlink.

There is a section in it about selecting coils.
Unfortunately there were no yellow ones included at this time. There are red and blue though.

Mine is black.

http://pantera-electronics.com/eis.htm

There simply does not appear to be any rhyme nor reason to why the MSD works or does not for some?

MSD has been around seemingly forever and it is entirely possible that the reliability of the product has been drastically improved?

I gave up on it in the '80s and have no intention of returning to it. Once bitten...twice shy.

Can't comment on e-coil efficiency but I currently use a later Ford e-coil with an earlier Ford Duraspark electronic distributor (compatible with the 351-C), and it all works fine together. As for performance, a wise engine builder once said,'there's no power to be had in an ignition system but there's certainly power to be LOST if what you have isn't working perfectly!'

My main reason for using one is, e-coils are almost insensitive to temperature, while an equivalent can-of-oil coil will overheat and rupture under some conditions, ruining the coil, killing the engine and some of the engine wiring. I have proven this to myself twice; the e-coil that replaced the cans has survived intact for 10 years under the same conditions.

Under operating conditions, any ignition coil conducts electricity during engine firings with a rest period in between that allows the coil to cool. The rest period is critical to can-coil life but seemingly not so much for e-coils.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
I am currently using the Pantera-Electronics Ignition with a Ford Motorsport (now Ford Racing) electronic distributor.

Mr.Haas has a list of coils he recommends using with his device and rates them as to good, better, best, etc.

I am using the Crane Fireball coil.

You need to be careful with this ignition. It throws lightening bolts to the plugs and you don't want to be mistaken as a spark plug.

I think the significant comment he makes in general about coils is that in his research he could not find any cylindrical coils that were capable of producing sufficient voltage.

Here is the link for the device. The installation instructions are there as a hyperlink.

There is a section in it about selecting coils.
Unfortunately there were no yellow ones included at this time. There are red and blue though.

It is interesting to see that two of the recommended coils for the Pantera-Electronics Ignition are MSD coils.

I'd love to know what is inside the Pantera-Electronics Ignition box to drive the coil.

quote:

Originally posted by Bosswrench:
Can't comment on e-coil efficiency but I currently use a later Ford e-coil with an earlier Ford Duraspark electronic distributor (compatible with the 351-C), and it all works fine together. As for performance, a wise engine builder once said,'there's no power to be had in an ignition system but there's certainly power to be LOST if what you have isn't working perfectly!'

My main reason for using one is, e-coils are almost insensitive to temperature, while an equivalent can-of-oil coil will overheat and rupture under some conditions, ruining the coil, killing the engine and some of the engine wiring. I have proven this to myself twice; the e-coil that replaced the cans has survived intact for 10 years under the same conditions.

Under operating conditions, any ignition coil conducts electricity during engine firings with a rest period in between that allows the coil to cool. The rest period is critical to can-coil life but seemingly not so much for e-coils.

Yes i have had the old style coils break open in the past and then i moved the coil from the engine to a place on the fender and used a long main ignition lead.

That kept the coil cooler and i've not had any others break open since but the coil i'm using is getting old now so needs to be changed out anyway.

Does the Ford e-coil you are using require a ballast resistor ? How many ohms would it be ?

quote:

Originally posted by Aus Ford:
It is interesting to see that two of the recommended coils for the Pantera-Electronics Ignition are MSD coils.

I'd love to know what is inside the Pantera-Electronics Ignition box to drive the coil.

There are actually two chassis sizes of the case for the P-E Ignition.

The one you see pictures of is built to the exact external dimensions of the MSD box.


Jon is color blind. He doesn't care what color coil gets used but I would suspect that the presence of the MSD coils are part of the thinking? In other words you don't need to change out the coil too, even if it's an MSD, to use his P-E brain?

I actually have the original shape of the P-E case. I find the look more appetizing than anything that even appears similar to MSD products.

Incidentally his original concept for the unit was to make it compact enough to use in other vehicles such as Cobra kit or continuation cars and even has a coiled snake decal to put on it in that case although he doesn't even hint at that anywhere.

He never said anything about Corvettes though.

I'm using the Crane unit. I don't see it now in the instructions but MSD was never a consideration to me. Mallory is there now also.

Lots of people snicker at the P-E unit and say it is just a CD unit. Jon just laughs at that.

There's no NEED to switch over to his parts if yours are still working. Many people are using the Motorcraft pointless distributor and brain which is a fine and dependable unit. Others the MSD system. To be fair, Mallory and Accell as well. Many still running the stock points distributor. If they work LEAVE THEM ALONE. It is nice to know that there is an alternative to them though, AND made JUST for the Pantera.

In my case I needed to simplify the tach situation. The Detomaso tach is not a Ford designed unit and it does not work like one.

Any time you change the Pantera wiring to it involves a hassle to get it to work right.

The P-E unit simplified that for me. It just plugs in to the original wiring and I could go about the rest of my life without worrying how I was going to try to get the tach to work today?

Is there really an advantage to P-E Ignition compared to EDIS/Megajolt system?
I was looking to "upgrade" from my Mallory Unilite distributor to Megajolt programmable ignition system, but then found this thread recommending P-E ignition.
Thinking about it looks that Megajolt system would be superior since it eliminates the distributor and offers fully programmable advance curve, but not sure if I might be missing something?

There are alternatives.

The perspective I see the P-E coming from is something simple, effective and an alternative to at least the MSD.

For me I was running with the Ford brain but the tach wasn't functioning with it.

The P-E solved that problem and gave me a way to run a hotter coil than the coil in a can. It gives additional start spark retarding at start over the Ford, and has a built in adjustable rev limiter and electronic adjustable spark advance slope.

It has additional features such as shutting off the coil when the ignition is on but the engine isn't running. For me that helps me from killing the coil, which if you leave the ignition on while the car isn't running, you can overheat the coil otherwise.

As BossWrench says, ignitions won't make you horsepower but they will keep you for loosing it.

The P-E solved my ignition problems. I haven't found any yet with it and I've tried.

It even matches up well with the Webers in firing so hot it helps to keep the plugs clean.

Webers tend to foul up the plugs at cold start up because the amount of raw fuel you are dumping in the engine to fire it with no chokes.

Of all the ignitions I've used, this one is the best I've found for my application.

Sounds like I'm getting sales commission here. I'm not, sorry to say?

I haven't tried a Megajolt but why would I look further when I have something that works well?

I do remember that the MSD wouldn't clean up fouled plugs. That is something I can't say with this set up. In fact I still need to get used to the plugs blowing off the carbon? It can be like firecrackers when it does. It will actually throw flames through the exhaust when it does.

There is very little restriction in my exhaust. That is the carbon getting cleaned off of the plugs.