Urethane-insulated motor mounts in a Pantera are a bad idea. The heat coming off the headers will melt the urethane normally used, especially on the left side. Hall used to sell them and I've helped chisel a couple of mounts apart after open track events. The left side is particularly troublesome because the left mount needs to be taken apart in order to remove it from around the shift shaft. But when the urethane melts and flows like pudding around all the parts, the mount-halves cannot be easily separated. So you're left chiseling and hacking melted-and-resolidified urethane off while its under the header and behind the shift rod. No oxyacetylene torch was available or I'd have used it! I suggest synthetic rubber mount insulators. Urethane might work for Mustangs with different around-engine air flows but not Panteras. It does work on ZF mounts since the heat is far less there.
quote:Originally posted by Bosswrench:
Urethane-insulated motor mounts in a Pantera are a bad idea. The heat coming off the headers will melt the urethane normally used, especially on the left side. Hall used to sell them and I've helped chisel a couple of mounts apart after open track events. The left side is particularly troublesome because the left mount needs to be taken apart in order to remove it from around the shift shaft. But when the urethane melts and flows like pudding around all the parts, the mount-halves cannot be easily separated. So you're left chiseling and hacking melted-and-resolidified urethane off while its under the header and behind the shift rod. No oxyacetylene torch was available or I'd have used it! I suggest synthetic rubber mount insulators. Urethane might work for Mustangs with different around-engine air flows but not Panteras. It does work on ZF mounts since the heat is far less there.
Do 180 headers where the tubes immediately curve up and away from the mounts.
quote:Originally posted by Bosswrench:
Urethane-insulated motor mounts in a Pantera are a bad idea. The heat coming off the headers will melt the urethane normally used, especially on the left side. Hall used to sell them and I've helped chisel a couple of mounts apart after open track events. The left side is particularly troublesome because the left mount needs to be taken apart in order to remove it from around the shift shaft. But when the urethane melts and flows like pudding around all the parts, the mount-halves cannot be easily separated. So you're left chiseling and hacking melted-and-resolidified urethane off while its under the header and behind the shift rod. No oxyacetylene torch was available or I'd have used it! I suggest synthetic rubber mount insulators. Urethane might work for Mustangs with different around-engine air flows but not Panteras. It does work on ZF mounts since the heat is far less there.
Ah good to know thanks.
Going to use a cable shifter to simplify fit issues.
180 headers are a plan for next year but I've got an "almost off the shelf" header that I'm looking at. I'll post it if it works.
I will wrap them and work in some sort of heat shield for the mounts.
Notching the inner fenders.
I am going to create more room so I can sit the motor as low as I can but still have the ability to leave the motor/Trans in it's neutral Fow/Aft position.
I'm thinking of using some square tubing and welding it in like this paper mock up I have here.
I am going to create more room so I can sit the motor as low as I can but still have the ability to leave the motor/Trans in it's neutral Fow/Aft position.
I'm thinking of using some square tubing and welding it in like this paper mock up I have here.
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quote:I'm thinking of using some square tubing and welding it in like this paper mock up I have here.
Good, creative thinking.
I do however think it may require some serious revamping (or new fabrication) of the wheel house brace bar which appears to have its effectiveness (in anchoring the suspension and shock mounts) diminished by your modification.
Do you have something already in mind to keep the suspension anchor points well located, or am I not reading your photos correctly?
How much of the wheelhouse (inner fenders) are you intending to remove?
quote:Originally posted by desert_detomaso:quote:I'm thinking of using some square tubing and welding it in like this paper mock up I have here.
Good, creative thinking.
I do however think it may require some serious revamping (or new fabrication) of the wheel house brace bar which appears to have its effectiveness (in anchoring the suspension and shock mounts) diminished by your modification.
Do you have something already in mind to keep the suspension anchor points well located, or am I not reading your photos correctly?
How much of the wheelhouse (inner fenders) are you intending to remove?
It may be possible to use the engine as the mount for the suspension. Formula 1 and Indy cars have done this successfully.
agustaboy, depending on how much interference you are expecting to the inner fender housing there are a couple simple tricks to move the engine and transaxle forward to consider that may be preferable to cutting into the chassis structure.
If you only need approximately 3/4" you can bend the tranny mounts into an "S" shape. This is typically done to move the transaxle aft, but I don't see why it couldn't be used to move it forward. If you need more than that you may need to fab new trans mounts. Ford Big Block swaps typically move the transaxle ~3" from neutral; I have not heard of problems with this amount of misalignment, but I would expect increased U-joint friction and stress with increasing misalignment.
You may also be able to move just the engine forward by putting a spacer between the bellhousing and engine. I have seen approximately 1" (?) thick adapters used with engine swaps. I am also using a QuickTime bellhousing and found it preferable to use a hydraulic throwout bearing rather than fabricating the clutch actuator slave mount.
For clearance up front I fabricated an alternator/AC mount and used an aftermarket pulley to suck these accessories as close as possible to the engine. I also used an electric water pump, mounted behind the radiator. I added 1/4" thick wooden strips (and longer bolts) to space-out the firewall access door.
Every Ford Big Block conversion that I have seen cuts into the wheel house structure, like you are planning. By using a few tricks I was able to keep the structure unmodified and fit the much longer/larger Big Block with the transaxle in the "stock" location.
Thank you for posting your project. It is fun to see your work and problem-solving.
Matt
If you only need approximately 3/4" you can bend the tranny mounts into an "S" shape. This is typically done to move the transaxle aft, but I don't see why it couldn't be used to move it forward. If you need more than that you may need to fab new trans mounts. Ford Big Block swaps typically move the transaxle ~3" from neutral; I have not heard of problems with this amount of misalignment, but I would expect increased U-joint friction and stress with increasing misalignment.
You may also be able to move just the engine forward by putting a spacer between the bellhousing and engine. I have seen approximately 1" (?) thick adapters used with engine swaps. I am also using a QuickTime bellhousing and found it preferable to use a hydraulic throwout bearing rather than fabricating the clutch actuator slave mount.
For clearance up front I fabricated an alternator/AC mount and used an aftermarket pulley to suck these accessories as close as possible to the engine. I also used an electric water pump, mounted behind the radiator. I added 1/4" thick wooden strips (and longer bolts) to space-out the firewall access door.
Every Ford Big Block conversion that I have seen cuts into the wheel house structure, like you are planning. By using a few tricks I was able to keep the structure unmodified and fit the much longer/larger Big Block with the transaxle in the "stock" location.
Thank you for posting your project. It is fun to see your work and problem-solving.
Matt