Electric Fuel Pump to Prime carb after car sits for period of time

Be careful - most of the electric pumps are much higher pressure - up to 60-70 Psi. You would have to run a pressure reduction and bypass set up.

You will be lucky to find one that is in the 5-7Psi seat pressure limit range for a conventional carb. I have not seen one.

Thanks Percy, I've found a couple that max to 5.5psi. Facet makes one but would prefer to hear if someone has already done this to their Pantera before proceeding. Thanks again!

I have all my cars set up this way, so never a problem with starting after they set for a length of time. Airtex makes a number of inline pumps with different pressure settings (available on Amazon). Choose one with 12 volts and 3-5 psi. On the Pantera, I installed it in the line between the tank and the mechanical pump. These pumps are designed to have fuel pulled through them by the mechanical pumps, so I have a toggle switch under the dash and turn it off after the cold start. If I should ever experience vapor lock in hot weather, I can turn on the electric to boost the fuel flow.

Holley Red pumps are designed for carbureted applications. I run one on my car. No issues

Thanks to both DWR46 and Tajon. Much appreciated. I was thinking of mounting switch on the console back by the cig lighter for easy wiring?, or toggle as suggested under dash. Thanks again, Ron

One last question if you don't mind. Did you mount high on the firewall close to where the fuel line comes out of the tank sending unit? Or, lower to the bottom before the gas line goes into the mechanical gas pump? Any photos would be much appreciated on mounting location. Thanks

A buddy likes to quote pumps pump.  The don't suck...  Mount it low.  There's enough room to run the lines behind the gas tank shield and there's enough space under the tank for pre and post fuel filters.

Ron: The Airtex pumps are "inline" and, in the case of the Pantera can just be installed in the line from the tank to the pump. As I recall, it is quite short and easily supported the weight of the pump by making sure the line was secured at a couple of places along its travel. The Airtex pumps come with a Pre-filter, and you can remove it if you already have a good fuel filter in the system. This gives you a few additional inches to work with in the relatively tight quarters.

Rick, pumps & pumps for sure, nice setup. thanks for photos!

DWE46, I ordered an Airtex pump so should have no problem with setup. Thanks again!

I'm set up this way, i.e., an inline prime pump using the red Holley. A week to 10 days is all you will get without evaporation. Just turning the ignition switch to run primes the carbs, then when they are full, the pump shuts off.

I'm using the "electric fuel pump" feature on the Haas' Pantera-Electronics Ignition Controller that shuts the pump off when not needed while the car is running.

Jon is a bit of a genius, but don't tell him I said so. I'll never be able to deal with his ego.

Mine is located low, below the tank on the chassis along with a Fram canister filter. That was easiest access for me, under the car, rather then on top.

The fuel line is run between the tank and the shield to a red Holley regulator on the firewall, then to the Webers. The system is set to run 3 psi at the carbs but can be dialed up at the regulator on the firewall. So far I haven't found this necessary but haven't done any track days with the car yet.

There is an electronic fuel pressure gauge sender plumbed in that you can see here half way through the stainless fuel lines in the back. There are lots of combinations that you can go to but the threat of heat sink and vapor lock isn't down low near the pumps, it's up high so you need to have lots of "air" circulating around the lines.

You can see that gauge in this picture of the dash at 3 o'clock through the steering wheel spokes.

Is that a paddle shifter arrangement on the dash ??? Or are they for something else ?

Sorry Steering wheel spokes ...

The red buttons? No. The one on the right is my engine start button. The one on the left is still vacant and available for use. I just haven't found something to use it for yet. They are attached to the steering wheel's rotating hub and run through a commutator.

Thanks PanteraDoug... Beautiful setup ....what a beast! I'm putting my elec. pump low on the frame, Still not sure where to mount the no off switch as only going to use for prime then shut off. I guess to be safe will tie into ignition switch with a relay. Was thinking of putting close to the cig lighter and but not enough amps on the cig wire. Also, it's a hot wire all the time... thoughts? Thanks, Ron

Mine is controlled by the Ignition Controller which "ramps" the EP down once the car is running.

Just turning the ignition to "run" without starting it and giving it a few minutes for the carb floats to adjust after a long time off and not running, is fine for me.

Webers don't have the same issues with drying out the gaskets like Holley's do since the reservoir is cast into the bottom portion of the carb. You just need to verify that the inlet valves aren't stuck and if you switch away from the Viton seat valves to the glass ball valves that 99% likely eliminates that issue altogether.

As you can see by the interior shot, I did a lot of work cleaning up the mess on the console and dash.

I just had a traumatic experience in finding a nice location for the electric parking brake switch location. It took me weeks to decide where to put it.

It eventually went into the location for the instrument panel dim switch which par for the course, after ONLY 50 years, kicked the bucket.

4460 isn't a beast. It's just misunderstood and needs nurturing, sensitivity. acknowledgement of it's sophistication and potential. Is that too much to ask?

Ron: My memory is a little sketchy, but I believe we found a wire that was hot with the ignition ON in the area of all the relays under the drivers side kick panel. We took our power from there and mounted a toggle switch under the dash to the left of the steering wheel, then easily ran a power wire to the pump under the carpet beside the drivers seat and through the engine access panel. The Airtex pumps use very little amperage, so you should have no issues with circuit capacity.

DWR46, Perfect, thanks!

Panteradoug, certainly understand nurturing, sensitivity and potential. Very nice!

Maybe a button instead of a switch? Should only need to run the pump for a few moments. Avoid the chance of forgetting to shut it off?

Larry, good idea, button switch would certainly prevent leaving the toggle switch on. Was thinking if I had a vapor lock (VL) situation again the toggle might be good. I had VL happen several summers ago and was not good. I put some heat shielding on the fuel lines and hasn't happened again, but if it did leaving the fuel pump on until the engine ran/cooled might be a good option. It's a flow-thru electric pump so can leave on or off depending on what I want.

Thanks for your good recommendation.. Ron

@ronwitt posted:

DWR46, Perfect, thanks!

Panteradoug, certainly understand nurturing, sensitivity and potential. Very nice!

Part of the "cat's" survival for this long.

@ronwitt posted:

Hi All, Happy New Year! I have a stock Pre-L 72 Pantera with Motorcraft 4300D D2ZF-AA carb. If I dont start the car every week the carb fuel bowl seems to evaporate and needs a lot of cranking to start the engine. If I start one day and turn around and start again the next day it fires right up. I'm thinking about adding an Electric fuel pump to just fill the carb bowl with a separate on/off switch. I will only use to prime the carb then turn off so need a flow-thru pump and probably 5.5psi rate? Has anyone done this for recommendations on type of pump, location of mounting pump and switch? Thanks for advice, not interested in switching to different carb/manifold or EFI. Thanks and Happy New Year! Ron

Hi Ron, before you invest in an electric pump and all manor of other bits and pieces, you might want to try my trick. I have a pretty stock 351C with mechanical pump and carb with electric choke. When the car has sat for a while, e.g. one or more months. I get in the car, don't touch the accelerator, and I crank the car for around 10-15 seconds, during this time, I see the oil pressure come up, which is a nice benefit when cold starting an engine. I stop cranking and pump the accelerator about 9-10 times to cock the choke and put some fuel into the intake, then I crank again and it starts immediately.

Cheers, Tim.

Hi Tim, thanks for your comments. I've been going through close to the same cold start process as you but concerned about the strain on starter and battery drain. I don't have an electric choke, but know it's set correctly. I figure for less than $50 I can install an electric pump for prime only and not have to worry about overworking other components for a smooth quick cold start. The pump arrives on Monday so will start next week and document the process to share with those interested. Thanks again and Happy New Year! Ron

Installing an electric pump to prime the carb does reduce the stress on the entire system of starting a dry engine and it does no harm.

Hi Ron, no worries, it sounds like a good solution,

cheers, Tim.

Hi Tim, always great to hear the opinions, advice, and experiences of other Pantera owners/lovers. Happy New Year!

Hi Ron. I did this exact mod, for the same reason a decade or so ago. I used a late '80s stock Ford TBI electric fuel pump permanently attached to the fuel sender inside the fuel tank. The TBI pump puts out 10-12 psi and can be easily regulated down to 5-7 psi for carbs. An EFI pump runs at 48-55 psi and will overheat and quit if you try to regulate it down that much.

Fuel pumps are not marked and look identical, so with used parts- unless you physically pull them off a wreck, you cannot tell them apart. Running a pump inside an uncut Pantera fuel tank is far quieter and handier than running a usually noisy external pump where the power wire can be knocked off, stopping the engine.

There's a POCA Newsletter article in the POCA Archives detailing the mod. I use both a mechanical pump and the TBI pump with a reverse flow valve between the two to my Holley. Still works fine & the e-pump can substitute for a failing mechanical pump on the road. .

Hi Bosswrench, Happy New Year! Thanks for sharing your insight and experience with your electric fuel pump.

You are certainly right about fuel pumps not being marked and look alike. I received my Airtex pump yesterday, part# not market on the box or pump, fittings looked rusted and bag with misc. items opened. Part number on box didn't match to anything I could find on the internet with several labels placed over weird numbers. I sent back and reordered from Amazon. Not going to install just a random look alike pump...crazy.

Thanks again, Ron

...You can see where I mounted the E. Fuel Pump, high on the Chassis. NO hoses near the Header!

1. The Mechanical Fuel Pump was Gone on the First Day! I don't trust them, I have had a few go-out on me...at the worst of times. Never had an Electric Fail. but I do Travel with a Spare E. Pump. also, the Mechanical pump, being mounted next to the Header IS the Cause of any Vapor-Lock! The Electric Does NOT Have to be mounted LOW!! Take it from Experience...You want this pump as FAR from any Heat Source, as You Can Possibly Get IT.

2. It is a Holley 'LOW" Pressure pump producing 4-5 PSI Max.

3. It is mounted to a Jacobs pressure regulator and the pressure is Calibrated at a Steady 4.0 PSI, working Engine Running.

4. The Regulator was NOT Needed, but I used it for the feature of Detouring Fuel back to the tank, once set pressure is reached, relieving the stress on the pump. Any 'Heating' of the Fuel, has not been noticed.

5. Holley E. Pumps are VERY Noisy. Where this is mounted, I could hear it 'Barely', over the Engine Sounds. The In-Cockpit Gopro Camera, caught it on Audio. When I played the Video back it struck My Nervous System Badly, as I realized, I had Listened to the Vibration, constantly, during a Desert Trip, for well over 1400 Miles. As soon as I was back in the Garage, I immediately added Two Rubber 'Vibration/Noise Isolators', (the Isolators with Dual Threaded STUDS 1-1/2" OD 1" Thick studs are 3/8" NC), between the Pump and Chassis. ALL is Very Good, Now.

6. The switch is mounted on a Gauge Plate to the right of the center console, with a RED Protection anti-accidental ON) Flip-Cover. Before starting the Engine. I fill the float bowls, shut the pump off, so the needle seats aren't 'stressed' (especially when the Engine is Already HOT, to prevent Flooding), No need to prime when it's already Hot. For start-up, I hit the accelerator 4 times (Only when COLD) and it fires right-up. Then the pump is turned back on. When temp starts to come up, I turn on the Main Rad Fan, Aux Fans are use when needed. The Aux Fans are OFF when cruising on the Freeway, as the coolant runs cooler. The Aux's actually 'Block' the air flow, when at 75-80 MPH, proven in Testing.

MJ   

Those in-tank factory pumps (either TBI or EFI) are deceiving. Not only do they not carry a stamped or decal part number, the roller-impeller pump itself is only the size of a silver dollar. The rest of the assembly is the high rpm drive motor and the fuel return mechanism (if it has one). There's a fine shear-wire final connection to the motor, so if you routinely run the tank dry on payday, after 2 or 3 times the lack of gas to cool the submerged pump can overheat the motor and burn the fine wire in two.

We found this out the hard way with Judy's EFI-powered '97 Z-28 which uses the same appearing pump as the one I used, from a TBI-powered Ford Bronco. As an aside, to change pumps in a GM Z-28, the whole live rear axle & rear brake assembly must be removed, then the fuel tank to access the submerged pump- all for want of a simple 50 cent access door in the trunk. Besides the complication, the shear wire is an undocumented "feature." Not only is it theoretically dangerous to burn it out inside a tank, it is not easily repairable. I've not found a source of correct shear-wire. Luckily, the Z-28 was fixed under warranty. Unluckily, a month later the ring & pinion went out, so out came the rear end again. Second new GM I owned and the second diff I lost. GM just doesn't know how to set up a limited slip differential.

So while you could rewire a blown fuel pump with heavier gauge wire or hot-wire a new pump to check its pressure output with a bucket of water and a gauge, you can't submerge the ungrounded pump in a conducting fluid like water. I guess after thinking about it, you could use safer diesel for a submerged check. Buto don't try check-running any such pump dry for more than a few seconds even if you temporarily plumb the pump with plastic hose. Wrecking yard roll-over fuel pumps can be blown this way too, because apparently many drivers of roll-over crashes keep their foot buried while the noisy/sky/ground thing is going on.

I can hear all electric fuel pumps when they come on. Including the in tank. In fact, turning the ignition switch to run without starting the engine is one of the tests on EFI cars to confirm the pump isn't bad.

Anyone who isn't hard of hearing clearly can hear it click on momentarily at that point.

In my case with my Pantera, there is little way to hear a chassis mounted electric pump. Installing a manual on/off switch for it, presuming that you retain a functioning mechanical pump would be the best option as well as mounting the pump on rubber blocks.

Considering the fuel pump repairs that I have done, it is more common to have the pump eccentric come loose internally or in fact the wrong pump installed to begin with then to have the actual pump fail.

New mechanical pumps are in stock in your local Pep Boys so I can't argue that there aren't problems with them.

In recent interviews with surviving factory drivers, when asked about the SW pumps installed in the factory racing Cobras, the drivers said, one the car was running, they switched them off.

Now if you have never heard the old SW pumps run, that thing actually vibrates the chassis where it is mounted. It's as loud as a mini-cement mixer and to have to turn it off in a race car running open exhaust headers makes quite a statement.

One of the first things that I did to my Pantera was to install 2" thick foam insulation under stainless steel fitted sheets on the firewall. That helps tremendously.

As MJ states, you don't NEED to mount it low. It's such a short rise up, none of the pumps I've run have ever had issues with running dry but considering how far away the mechanical pump is from the exhaust in my car (180° headers up and back) the vapor lock issue is more of where the fuel lines themselves are.

You should note though that 1/4" thick Delrin insulating gaskets are available for the mechanical pumps.

With any of the carbs available, you don't need to run more pressure then the mechanical pumps make to begin with and considering the failure rate that I have seen with the Viton carb inlet needle and seat, it's risky to run much more then about 5psi.

Having a car sit for only a week and have the carb be dry sounds more like a leakage problem. I know with a Holley carb if the power valve begins to leak it will eventually drain the bowl where the valve is. If you are going to install an electriced powered booster fuel pump, then just be sure that you get one for a carb and not EFI. An inline pressure regulator might be a good idea to keep the fuel pressure on or about 5 psi.

Absolutely agree with Doug on the incredible e-pump noise. I had a Holley Super-pump on my do-everything Corvair and after 2 weeks of changing its mount spot, I took it off. That car had a totally tuned exhaust clear back to the exhaust valves & lots of tire noise. Had Holley's rubber-grommet-insulated mount. Didn't help at all, so don't waste your money if its not going on a full race car. That experience is why I went to an in-tank pump on the Pantera. I can hear the Ford pump come on but not when the engine is running.

@bosswrench posted:

Absolutely agree with Doug on the incredible e-pump noise. I had a Holley Super-pump on my do-everything Corvair and after 2 weeks of changing its mount spot, I took it off. That car had a totally tuned exhaust clear back to the exhaust valves & lots of tire noise. Had Holley's rubber-grommet-insulated mount. Didn't help at all, so don't waste your money if its not going on a full race car. That experience is why I went to an in-tank pump on the Pantera. I can hear the Ford pump come on but not when the engine is running.

CORVAIR? E'tu Brutis?

Yes- I bought the thing new as a family sedan in '65 (wife & 2 kids at the time), drove it 275,000 miles and only(?) used one spare body-shell, 4 engines (five cranks), plus three transaxles. Commuter, touring car on Club runs & vacations, autocrosser etc. To say I beat upon it is understating the facts. When I sold it in 2000 (for more than I paid new), it had 4-wheel Z-28 disc brakes, 15x 7" & 15 x 8" wheels, two Weber 3-bbl carbs and about 200 bhp. Luckily, too old for CA SMOG laws. Literally nothing was stock except the door handles.  I still miss it.

A momentary start switch. Push the rubber covered button to energize and it springs back to the off position when it's released. About $8 on Amazon.

Mike Mileski

Tucson, AZ

Mike, seems like another good push button option. I decided to go with a small black toggle switch. Mounted it under the dash left of the steering column by the trip odometer reset. Decided if I ever want leave the pump on because of maybe vapor lock it would be better to have the toggle instead of using one of my hands to hold in a button for a period of time.
Thanks, Ron

Carter also makes electric pumps for carbs that don't require a regulator. My car is away right now, but will look to see what model number if I still have the box. Not silent, but not overly noisy setup in line.

Thanks Otis, I already bought an Airtex pump but others might be interested in your Carter # when you get your car back to check. 99% of the time I will only use my pump to prime carb when needed so noise of pump not a concern. Understand if someone runs the pump all the time noisy pump might be an issue.

Thanks, Ron

Remember if you expect to run a quiet in-tank pump, pick one that fits thru the existing hole for the sender, or maybe the tank vent (smaller). As for the riveted tank vent, I drilled out the rivets, found the tank holes already euro-threaded, so it was simple to replace the stock vent with Hall's economical anti-roll-over valve assembly (now mandatory for passenger cars & light trucks world wide).

DeTomaso supplied roll-over valves on the '80-up wide-body cars and probably on Longchamps etc made after '80. But factory parts today are unbelievably expensive and mostly unobtainium. I've never, in many million miles, rolled a car or truck. But if the worst happens, I don't want to be bathing in 91-octane along with a smoking-hot engine, for want of a $50 part.

Hi Folks, was out of town for a number of weeks so electric pump installation was delayed. I have installed high near the fuel line coming out of the top of the fuel tank leading into mechanical pump. The pump is rated max PSI of 4.5. I have not yet secured the pump to the firewall to ensure it’s operating correctly….. doesn’t seem so? I’ve checked the wiring and confirm it has 12v leading to the pump and pump is making noise and can feel it’s operating when when toggle switch is activated. In my mind doesn’t seem to be pulling/pushing fuel to carb when turned on. It is a flow through pump not sure if high enough psi to get fuel to carb. Questions: is max 4.5 psi high enough to get fuel to carb for boost and is mounting correct position on fuel line out of tank to mechanical pump? Or, should it be installed on output side of mechanical pump leading to carb?

Thanks for your thoughts, Ron

Check for any small possible fuel  line joint air leaks between the pump and the fuel tank. As the fuel tank is lower any trace leak will defeat the ability of the pump to work effectively by destroying its suction.

4.5 psi is PLENTY of capacity. Electric pumps like to be mounted as LOW as possible to use the syphon effect to help the fuel flow out of the tank. They are not great at raising fuel on the intake side of the pump. With the pump down low in the car, once it has fuel to the pump, it will keep the syphon as long as fuel is available in the lines and tank. You may have to blow air into the filler neck to start a flow of fuel to the pump on initial installation.

First things first. Verify that you have the lines correctly installed, i.e., input and output and not reversed.

Also, the original hard tube fuel line that is welded into the tank itself, has a nasty habit of holing through right at the fuel level line you mostly keep.

In other words if you normally store the car with 1/2 a tank, that will be the area of the tube that is most likely to hole through AND THEY WILL.

Once you have a hole there, you have lost the siphoning ability below the hole.

I had this issue where the car would run out of fuel at 1/2 a tank level. It's a Pantera unique issue so it was a brain stumper for any of my friends to envision.

Thanks Percy and DWR46, Thanks for the input. As you know the fuel line to the Mechanical fuel pump comes out of the top of fuel tank. The current position of electric pump is close to the top of the firewall a bit below the fuel line coming out of the tank. I just checked the line connections and all are tight and no apparent leaks. I've seen some pics of the electric pump mounted high from other forum members and was easiest spot for me. I did start the engine about 5 days ago after letting it set for days but only started after my usual cold start procedure of cranking the engine for 20-30 seconds then couple pumps on the gas pedal.  The electric fuel pump did not help with cold start. I tried again yesterday and also did nothing to help with starting. I know choke is set correctly as the engine starts immediately if it sets for only 1-3 days. The pump s/b primed as I've run the engine with it connected. Just doesnt seem to be getting the suction to pull/push to the carb... Maybe a bad pump?

Hi Pantera Doug, Thanks for your input. I have the pump installed correctly; input from the fuel tank line, output headed to mechanical pump. I've run the fuel tank to below 1/4 level and never a problem with engine running. I'm still perplexed on how the electric pump pulls fuel from tank line then pushes through the mechanical pump up to carb...? Max 4.5 PSI doesn't seem enough to do that when actual output is probably only couple pound. I have not put a fuel pressure gauge on the system to test.. Thanks again, Ron

@ronwitt posted:

Hi Pantera Doug, Thanks for your input. I have the pump installed correctly; input from the fuel tank line, output headed to mechanical pump. I've run the fuel tank to below 1/4 level and never a problem with engine running. I'm still perplexed on how the electric pump pulls fuel from tank line then pushes through the mechanical pump up to carb...? Max 4.5 PSI doesn't seem enough to do that when actual output is probably only couple pound. I have not put a fuel pressure gauge on the system to test.. Thanks again, Ron

The porous fuel tube isn't that simple to diagnose. It might have been ok last week but today...

I've been through this. It isn't denial, it's just so ridiculous of a situation it becomes invisible but the symptoms persist.

Best of luck in solving but looking under the wrong rocks won't fix it.

Fill the tank completely...to the brim. If that solves the issue, it's the tube. If it persists, it's something else.

The internal pick up tube is steel. It rusts out.

Hi Doug, I also should have mentioned I replaced the fuel sending unit with fuel pickup about 2 years ago. I guess it's a possibility that the fuel pickup has failed? The one I took out had failed on the electrical side for sending to fuel gauge. I kept the old unit and just checked...fuel pickup looked good after maybe 48 years...

Thanks, Ron

There are two version of the fuel gauge sender unit. The original one has no pickup, it's just a sender. With that one the banjo on top of the tank is connected to a steel tube that goes to within an 1/8" or so of the bottom of the tank in an indented well.

That is the tube that rusts out and is not replaceable.

There is a second type, which is currently serviced that has the pickup as part of the fuel gauge sender/float assembly. It's unlikely that a recent one will rust out so fast.

I had a dead sender assembly so I replaced the float assembly with one currently serviced by Wilkinson. That tube is steel and as I remember was just yellow cad plated.

That float also had to be "adjusted" quite a bit to have the gauge read anywhere near accurately, but that's a different story.

IF you have gone to the pickup integral to the float/sender unit, scientifically you need to eliminate a tube failure as a possibility, pull it out, and vacuum/pressure test it on the bench.

In the attached illustration, the tank on the left has the original design showing #1 as the fuel banjo. Below that, not shown in the diagram is the steel pickup tube.

The second fuel pickup illustration in the center of the diagram is the replacement sender/pickup with the integral pick up.

Doug, thanks again. The old sending unit that I took out had the fuel pick up so must not have been original. Of course the one I installed did have the fuel pick up. I will pull out and vacuum test. Installing the new sending unit was not an easy task, at least not for me. After removing the fuel tank top cover I ended up taking out the side window which again was not easy. After the unit was installed my fuel gauge issue was corrected. Putting back in the side window even with soapy water around the rubber seals took some time. I’m starting to think that a simple installation of an electric fuel pump booster is getting to be a headache. Thanks again, Ron

It is a real PITA thing. " I feel your pain."

For the fuel pump, mounting height isn't going to matter because the height of the fuel connection coming out of the tank calls the shot. It's already high and the pump has to lift fuel out of the tank just to get over that hump.

My EFP is mounted low actually below the bottom of the tank on the chassis cross member and it doesn't matter a hill of beans.

SOME have gone to using the tank drain plug as the fuel line attachment point. It can be problematic as well because first you have to get the plug out without destroying the tank.

The tank has a threaded insert attached to the sheetmetal of the tank and a few have torn the tank itself trying to get the plug out.

The other thing is that the plug is SO LOW that you need to use a very tight fitting 90° fitting which MAY be subject to road hazards that originally you wouldn't need to worry about.

It's also a not very common metric size. I think from memory that it is a M22-1.0? That has VERY limited alternatives to use. In fact maybe even one or two that you may have to get from someone like Pegasus Racing?

BEFORE you pull out the sender AGAIN, you could try taking a small can of gas, disconnecting the fuel line from the tank and using that as a test to see if everything works then? If it does, it points even more so to the in tank pickup. If it has the same issues, don't even bother taking the sender out again. The problem is highly likely elsewhere.

Hi Doug, yes pain for sure. Your suggestion on testing the line disconnected for the fuel tank in another gas can is a good one. Will try that first. Don't want to go the route of line feed from drain plug at the bottom of tank, although an option, but way down the list. I'll let you know how it goes. I assume you feel that 4.5 PSI is also good to get the job done as a boost prime pump? I wonder, but not sure if a 10-14 PSI boost or lower 7 PSI would cause any issues with my Motorcraft 4300D carb...and make a difference on pull. Not sure of your carb setup or if FI. What PSI are you running for EFP. Thanks for taking the time to respond to each of my questions/comments...much appreciated! Ron

@ronwitt posted:

Hi Doug, yes pain for sure. Your suggestion on testing the line disconnected for the fuel tank in another gas can is a good one. Will try that first. Don't want to go the route of line feed from drain plug at the bottom of tank, although an option, but way down the list. I'll let you know how it goes. I assume you feel that 4.5 PSI is also good to get the job done as a boost prime pump? I wonder, but not sure if a 10-14 PSI boost or lower 7 PSI would cause any issues with my Motorcraft 4300D carb...and make a difference on pull. Not sure of your carb setup or if FI. What PSI are you running for EFP. Thanks for taking the time to respond to each of my questions/comments...much appreciated! Ron

The pressure that you get out of a stock mechanical fuel pump is plenty.

On carburetored engines you need to be concerned about the needle & seat and floats to consistently be able to handle pressures higher.

The 7psi that you read about in "Hot Rod" magazines is completely wrong for a street car. You might need that at the dragstrip on cars that really "lock up" because of the g-forces pulling fuel away from the transfer slots in the carbs but other then that it is in fact a little dangerous.

The Webers that I am running are running on 3.5psi of pressure. It supplies them with sufficient volume.

As an aside, it took a long time to get some details on some of the Shelby and Ford mid '60s race cars like the Cobras and the GT40's running Webers but guess what? They didn't even run pressure regulators, just plumbed directly from the mechanical pumps which put out....ta ta da! You guessed it! 3.5 to 4.5 psi. The EFP was there to PRIME the system, since they were constantly being torn down in between races and otherwise would need to start dry.

Anyone who has problems with not enough pressure has issues elsewhere and is confused about where to look.

The electric pump you are installing is for PRIMING the system when it is dry...and MAYBE breaking vapor lock BUT if you have vapor lock, there is an issue elsewhere, like the fuel lines are getting cooked somewhere.

Use the Holley Mighty Mite from amazon we've used dozens and dozens of them. Mount it where the fuel outlet pipe comes out of the tank. Their both small & powerful.

Ron,

Leave the pump connected to the fuel tank.  Disconnect the outlet hose or tubing and extend to a bucket or container.  Power the fuel pump and see what you get in the bucket.  

John

Thanks to all for your comments/suggestions. All very good points and tips. I'll leave the 4.5 PSI pump alone for now. Will do what John suggests first as it's the easiest for me to get access and test. If there is no fuel after testing pump into a bucket, I will know it's either a bad pump or something in the tank fuel line. The electrical connection at the pump is testing at 11.87 volts. I will let you know how it goes..... Thanks again to All, Ron

Not one of us got it right? The question I answered was 'what pump do guys use or recommend' asking for 'tips' so anybody that answered that question got it right.  Answer A uses blablabla, answer B uses blablabla He asked for opinions. Not to get into an arguement over semantics but I did answer the question. How is that considered 'wrong' to you my friend.

Pantea fuel tanks are vented... the vent hose leads to a charcoal type canister on the opposite side engine bay from fuel tank, as does mine. Very good points by all. This is what I enjoy about the Pantera Forum, most have gone through the issues of repairing or installing parts / components and are very helpful with advice / tips. I Thank you All, Ron

Yea whatever. My fuel pump suggestion IS and WAS very useful.

MJ, you are wrong about the canister, it is vented back to the air cleaner so open to atmosphere, not closed system... The fuel tank is Vented! end of story...

All, I'm checking out of this sting of comments, has turned non-productive at this point. Thanks for all the good comments and input on trouble shooting. Take care, Ron

Thanks for the suggested fuel pump type to use Sharkey- most appreciated.