Frozen head bolt / engine reconditioning

Have you tried an air impact gun with 6 point impact socket. Hard to believe that wouldnt do the trick with a quality gun and lots of air pressure.

this is the culprit.
twisted an "Allen" brand hex key like a pretzel with a 30" breaker bar.
Thinking if we nip the head off the bolt with the torch and get the cylinder head off we could get penetrating fluid to the threads in the block and get the remains to unscrew.

Unfortunately someone used an incorrect bolt to fasten the heads to the block.

Take a blunt object a solid bar the same or larger size than the head of the fastener. Give it a few whacks with a BFH.

Try attaching a vice grip as hard as you can to the head. Have one person rotate the vice grip while the other rotates the allen tool. It helps to try to rotate first tightening a bit then counter clockwise.

Hope this helps

These tools and a single jack

George, Does the tool on the left rotate when you whack it with a hammer? If so that should work...LOL

Yes, it rotates when you whack it. Very little but enough to break loose a frozen bolt or screw. You don't need it very often but when you do nothing works as well.
I've had one for years.

Doug M

What is that called and where would i get one?

quote:

Originally posted by tajon:
What is that called and where would i get one?

Manual Impact Driver.

here is an example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPjsBF98n7I

Manual Impact Driver.

Try Amazon, or any reputable tool store. I would guess you want a 1/2" Drive unit.

If the impact driver doesn't work, take a sharp drill bit and drill the head off of the bolt and slip the head over what's left. It should be easy to remove without damaging the threads in the block after that.

Ron

Thanks for all the suggestions We will keep you updated

And one more suggestion...

Weld a nut onto the top of that thing, then put your impact wrench onto it. Start at a lower pressure impact setting and let the wrench hammer for a while. I find the steady vibration at lower pressure often does the trick on a frozen bolt better than putting my impact gun on the highest torque setting.

...This is what I would try, not everyone is going to have this equipment at their disposal:

1. With a Hand-Held Sledge Hammer...say 4 Pounds, hammer on the Head of the Bolt 'Down' in an Action as you would to 'drive a Nail into wood'. This can loosen the threads, or even Snap the Head Off. THEN try the Impact Wrench.
You can hit the bolt head 'Side-ways', but you take the chance of hitting and damaging the Head.
'Shock' is a 'Tool' Often used in the Machine Shop.

2. If you have access to a Acetylene Torch, Heat the Head of the Bolt Up, RED HOT! and let it air cool down, this will loosen the threads up. I would NOT try to Melt the Head off using a 'Cutting Torch', you'll Damage the Head!
And be advised that when the Bolt Head is Heated Up to Red Hot, and cooled, you have annealed (softened) the Hex in the Head, making it subject to being 'Stripped' when next using the Impact with a 'Allen' Socket. BUT, annealing makes the Steel Easier to Drill.

...a 'Sharp HSS Drill'(High Speed Steel) will Not cut a Grade 10 Allen Head Bolt! The 'Core' of the Bolt is Harder than HSS! It will take a Carbide Drill(very expensive). And Not By-Hand!, you will not be able to put enough force behind it! And Not with the Engine in the Vehicle! You'll need to mount the Engine Block on a Mill Table, and use a Carbide End-Mill to cut it, with Enough Down-Force.

Good-Luck with It!

P.S. I once 'tore' a Frozen 3/4" Grade 10 Allen Bolt, 8 Inches Long, In Half, using a 1" Drive 800 Lb/Ft Impact Wrench, after 'Hammering' On It (with the Impact Wrench), Continuously for Nearly an Hour! We Did NOT Heat the Bolt before-hand. I believe we Did Hammer on it, before using the Impact Wrench.

...3 One other method:
This is Risky and Dangerous!! A Last 'Desperate' Resort, used Only when All Else Fails!!

Again with the Acetylene Torch...Heat the Head up, evenly to RED HOT. Stand Back and Poor a 'Bucket' of cold water over the Bolt. Expect a Steam 'Explosion'! This 'Should' Crack the Head, making it easy to Snap the Bolt Head Off using that Sledge Hammer. This can Risk Cracking the Head, Itself!

I don't know what your head is made of (cast iron?), but as a last resort you can use oxy/acetylene to "blow out" the bolt in cast iron. I've done this successfully with a stubborn broken water pump bolt that couldn't be removed with an easy out.

you twisted an L shaped allen tool? i'd try a quality socket style hex tool as in George's pic with a 1/2" breaker bar. worst case it won't turn just grind the head off down into the washer, no drills or torches needed with such easy access. then the remaining bolt can be heated near the block and removed with vice grips ...

but like i said that's worst case, i'll be surprised if a quality hex bit socket doesn't turn it right out. a couple good smacks and applying heat to the bolt head can only help

quote:

Originally posted by JTpantera:
Have you tried an air impact gun with 6 point impact socket. Hard to believe that wouldnt do the trick with a quality gun and lots of air pressure.

exactly! get a proper "impact" hex socket short version and a quality Air impact gun and that problem is solved in a second.

Sorry we weren't clear before.
We were using a 1/2" drive Allen brand hex key socket with the 30" breaker bar, not an "L" shaped key. We also gave a Snap-On 1/2" impact wrench with 150 PSI air its opportunity too. Nothing.
We return to the project Friday.
We're going to cut off the twisted bit of the hex key to leave just what we need to engage the socket in the bolt head and try the Snap-On impact again. Or a bigger one. I have a 1" drive electric version I can adapt down.
If that doesn't work, I think we'll be cutting the head off the bolt. Probably use a cut off blade in a small angle grinder.
Easy access with the engine out on a stand.

i just asked if it was an L key because they might not have used great tool steel for someting only intended to be used by hand. i'd gently warm the block in the area where the bolt is sunk with a propane torch, again very gently maybe several times to let the heat soak in before going at it again. absolutely no where near hot enough to harm anything just like normal operating temp

a little heat can be good

Impact Hex

I ordered the new socket from Snap-on.
Gear wrench makes a good tool but I have broken a few of their wrenchs too.

Allen socket bolts are not the best of ideas to use on high tensile loaded applications.

Unfortunately they strip out very easily. That is probably why torx seem to be so common now on new cars?

Chances are that bolt is going to snap off right near where is enters the block.

In that case be prepared to bring the block to a machine shop to have it bored out like Marlin has suggested.

Let’s hope that doesnt happen doug. We should find out tomorrow.

I will be using arp hardware during the rebuild. Is there a kit that most prefer? Leaning towards a stud kit (154-4004)

Don't misunderstand, I'm not wishing that (any bad luck) on you.

Frozen head bolts are common on the old 2.0 L Fords with the aluminum heads and iron blocks. Not necessarily on a Cleveland block.

The choice of failure areas are not voluntary on your part. They are going to be, 1) the bolt comes loose and all is good (very possible) 2) the bolt snaps just above the top of the block (highly likely)3) the bolt comes loose but takes a part of the block with it (possible but not often seen).

You won't know until you roll the dice. You really need to soak where the bolt goes into the block with penetrating solvent. PB Blaster works well for us here.

Sometimes you need to heat the bolt red hot, then let it cool. Of course that sets the PB Blaster on fire since it is largely kerosene and you would have to cut the head of the bolt off to remove the head, then use a "stud puller" on it.

Frankly, if it doesn't come loose the first couple of shots with the impact wrench, it is a much safer procedure to take the entire mess to a machine shop and let them do it.

At least you won't break the block casting that way but using an end mill to get the broken stud out isn't as simple as it sounds.

You need to do that on a "mill". Once it is all set up, then yes, it's a piece of cake really.

You mill the stud out then you still need to use a tap to get the remainder of the bolt threads out of the block.

The Devil is in the details, i.e., getting it there and setting it up on the machine.

I wish you the best of luck and a simple and easy solution.

worst case the bolt breaks at the block i'd use the welding method to get the stub out. the heat generated by the welding causes the thread to let go in a big way. a little low tech but i personally don't know where ATM is a mill big enough to secure a long block?

go slow & heat gently they'll come out

As has been said, a really stuck head bolt simply cannot be removed with the engine in the car. Bite the bullet and pull the engine for convenience in working on this difficult problem. It will be easier to cut the bolt head off and remove the 60-lb head over the cut-off bolt shank- maybe with help.

After the head is off, if the shank cannot be removed with the tools at hand and you are familiar with an oxyacetylene welding torch, I'm always successful using the cutting torch adapter as long as the bad fastener is in iron! The method is simple: put the cutting torch directly on the stub bolt until the bolt is glowing bright red. Then while wearing protective clothing, hit the cutting-oxygen lever and watch the molten bolt liquify and shoot out in a fountain of molten steel.
This is why-
-1)- the head must be off to access the bottom of the cut off bolt
-2)- you must wear protective clothing, as the glowing scraps will be at 1200-up degrees F
-3)- the engine must be out of the car and away from it!

Once things cool down, add some threading oil and run a tap thru the empty hole to remove rust and tiny oxidized bits of bolt; the original block threads will be completely unharmed and can be reused.

Many machine shops will use this method in lieu of the more costly setting the whole block up on a big vertical mill, dialing it in precisely and milling the bolt remnants out.

quote:

Originally posted by Bosswrench:
As has been said, a really stuck head bolt simply cannot be removed with the engine in the car. Bite the bullet and pull the engine for convenience in working on this difficult problem. .

The picture in post #3 clearly shows the engine out of the car.

i'd rather EDM the stump out than turn it into a molten geyser with a cutting torch. i know there are probably million qualified operators that can do it with one eye closed anyway but my luck i'd get the guy that starts with ...

hold my beer & watch this!

We were able to get them out this evening. I started with the impact gun, hitting it with the vibrations, rocking the bolt back and forth with forward and reverse, tapping it with a hammer. That basically resulted in stripping the hex head pattern from the bolt. So I moved to plan B, cut the heads off the bolts and deal with them with the heads off the block. Once the heads were removed from the block we had access to the bolt threads and hosed them down with penetrating oil. After numerous applications of the penetrating oil and somewhat gentle tapping on the bolt they loosened up enough to remove them from the block. By hand. Literally removed the first one bare handed. Vise grips were used on the other but they are out. No trauma to the block or my wallet! Lol

Had this guy in the block in one of the coolant drains. Any ideas what it would be used for?

Next step is to have the valve springs checked and the valves checked for leaks. Should be a fun winter reassembling the engine.

quote:

Originally posted by tajon:
We were able to get them out this evening.

knock sensor?

Maybe? When I purchases the car it had an old fuel injection system on it that was pretty unreliable. To be honest, I can’t remember if I had to disconnect anything from it when I removed the FI and changed to a carb setup.

Wondering about head gasket choices. Which do you prefer? I was thinking this fel-pro from Summit HS8347pT