BD,
I agree with David in that the pump have some added stress trying to pull from a 5/16 fitting. Another good option would be a universal tank retrofit kit such as this one from Aeromotive. . For the sake of saving money I might recommend installing a Walbro 255 on the 5/16 tank noutlet and see how it works before you spend the big bucks on a retrofit kit.

Larry,
I havent had a stock tank for years so I am not sure what size the drain plug is however I would imagine anything 3/8" or over should be sufficient.
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraTurbo:
BD,
I agree with David in that the pump have some added stress trying to pull from a 5/16 fitting. Another good option would be a universal tank retrofit kit such as this one from Aeromotive.

Blaine
The Aeromotive pumps, even have a 20" extension kit that I think would give the pump enough reach to get to the bottom of the tank.


I have been looking at the FiTech, due to ease of use, and price. But I called the Tech line there today......Lets just say I asked one question and the their tech's answer had me just like Really? Thank you for your time.
I will look at the Holley Systems. Any particular units you like?
Jeff
Jeff,

Your question was directed at Blaine but I'll jump in and offer my 2 cents. The top of the line Holley ECU is the Dominator. That's the one I'm using because I have an I.R. intake and can take advantage of the Dominator's features. If you're using a single throttle body based intake, the Holley HP ECU works great.

Autotrend EFI in Northern California is my Holley dealer and fuel injection Guru! They can even supply a Pantera specific EFI harness for both the HP and the Dominator.
I completely agree with David. The HP units are great if you dont need some of the advanced features of the Dominator and at a considerably reduced price. As for the factory crate motors with electronics that is also a possibility provided you dont want to start messing with things. If you require tuning they are considerably more of a pain than a standalone unit, especially the ford ones. Sometimes the factory tune is not fantastic either. If you go this route make sure to get some reviews first and also be sure to follow ALL instructions regarding intake pipework with MAF fitted engines.
One problem not often addressed is removing the fuel tank drain plug without damaging the tank. The plug is often frozen into the tank bung and our tanks are made of remarkably thin steel. When I tried to remove mine with a wrench, I could see the tank panels visibly rippling and buckling. A vendor says he's had luck using an impact gun set on low but warns that it often takes several minutes before the plug begins to shift. Others say that drilling out the old plug & cleaning the tank bung threads was the only way they got theirs apart. My plug is still in there, as the impact gun idea didn't work for me, and I'm leery of drilling the plug with a couple of gallons of gas inside! Guess a messy siphon is my only choice followed by a non-electric drill.
quote:
Originally posted by Bosswrench:
One problem not often addressed is removing the fuel tank drain plug without damaging the tank. The plug is often frozen into the tank bung and our tanks are made of remarkably thin steel. When I tried to remove mine with a wrench, I could see the tank panels visibly rippling and buckling. A vendor says he's had luck using an impact gun set on low but warns that it often takes several minutes before the plug begins to shift. Others say that drilling out the old plug & cleaning the tank bung threads was the only way they got theirs apart. My plug is still in there, as the impact gun idea didn't work for me, and I'm leery of drilling the plug with a couple of gallons of gas inside! Guess a messy siphon is my only choice followed by a non-electric drill.


I had to drill my tank plug out, but left about a gallon of gasoline in the tank. I wasn't thrilled about drilling into it, although it is safer than drilling into a tank with just fumes inside. The banjo fitting at the bottom of the tank and a shut off valve does make it nice if you want to change the fuel pump or the fuel filter.
If you completely drain the tank then put enough PB Blaster in the tank to completely cover the threads, it will be much easier to break the plug loose. Let it soak for a while before you try to turn it.

Yes, I saw the tank do the squiggle like Boss
Wrench mentioned.

I am aware of the banjos available but for me, even that banjo was uncomfortably low.

I just put in a modern 22mm plug and went the traditional route with one exception, I put in a new combination float/pick up, calibrated the float.

My tank had the early original integral fuel pick up which had rotted through about 12" up from the bottom of the tube.



I can't speak to the factory tube capacity for running at full throttle, flat out in an endurance race situation but so far with the Webers there has not been any kind of a full delivery problem for me.

Now, if I want to go with FI, the original fuel pick up supply tube can be used as the return and if need be, an internal pump attached to the removable pick up/float sensor assembly can be added and altered to any number of "production" in tank pumps.



I am using duel external pumps. A Holley electric pump and a Holley high capacity mechanical pump. The electric pump primes the fuel system after a long lay off. My system is reduced to 4psi at the carbs so all things are not equal between carbs and FI.

IF you decide to feed from the bottom of the tank you will NEED a positive shut off as close to the tank as you can get it.

Strange things can AND DO happen. There is no possible way to predict what road debris can do. By definition, unpredictable is unpredictable but the last thing that you want to happen is that you need to get under the car to shut off the flow of fuel from the bottom pickup in an emergency situation.

These manual shut off valves also have a nasty tendency of not working when you need them too. Virtually freezing open not to mention the O-rings drying up and eventually leaking. They are just another component to fail on you. Add more components, increase the mathematical probability of a component failure. Simpler is better...and safer.

In that sense the factory type of tank pick up is much safer. As a result, I feel that in this car, all fuel lines, pumps, filters, etc, should be kept ABOVE the level of chassis. Nothing should be below the bottom of the tank.

My car reflects this point of view.



As far as loosening the original tank plug,you could just take a torch and put a lot of heat on the fitting instead of PB Blaster? Big Grin
Great article Blaine,im in the process of doing my new clevlor with inglese electronic fuel injection like webbers in looks the engine is stroked to a 438 callies rods and crank chevy journal 4 inch stroke 4.125 bore C.H.I. 225 3v heads meizre electric water pump ,Danny B timming belt ,comp cams mechanical roller, Fast distributor 11.1 compression on 60cc heads with diamond pistons,i have experience on the mechanical side running a NASCAR modified stock car for years in new England but no experience with electronic fuel injection im doing the mock up now with 180degree headers and having trouble with the linkage with the stock cable that they tell me will work,any and all help any photo's from your experiencewith greatly be greatly appreciated,thanks Jimmy
I run aftermarket EFI on my GT40 replica IR intake.
All i can say is its awesome. The throttle reponse is instant. I run a Microtech Programmable ecu with an Alpha N or TPS tune as the motor has little manifold vacuum for MAP sensing. ai do all my tuning on a Mates Dyno and I make good power ,493hp at the wheels so around 600hp at the flywheel.


video of GT40 flat from 1st to 5th gears
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oMB6_MJo7Uk

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quote:
Originally posted by shelby racer:
Great article Blaine,im in the process of doing my new clevlor with inglese electronic fuel injection like webbers in looks the engine is stroked to a 438 callies rods and crank chevy journal 4 inch stroke 4.125 bore C.H.I. 225 3v heads meizre electric water pump ,Danny B timming belt ,comp cams mechanical roller, Fast distributor 11.1 compression on 60cc heads with diamond pistons,i have experience on the mechanical side running a NASCAR modified stock car for years in new England but no experience with electronic fuel injection im doing the mock up now with 180degree headers and having trouble with the linkage with the stock cable that they tell me will work,any and all help any photo's from your experiencewith greatly be greatly appreciated,thanks Jimmy


In order to use the modified stock Pantera throttle cable use this bellcrank kit. It will mount right up to the cast in tower in the intake manifold.

Mr. Gasket #1523.

You just need to shorten the supplied arms.

Why go with the most complicated solution? Simplify your life. You will live longer...AND be happier.

Chroming everything or cutting it out of billet doesn't make it better. Ask Inglese.

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I am experiencing some hesitation and stall issues and I am thinking it is the carb. I am considering switching to EFI. After reading a number of threads was thinking about moving to the Holley Sniper. The mustang forums seem to think highly of the solution for the Cleveland. Anyone else have experience with the sniper?
quote:
Originally posted by shashi27:
I am experiencing some hesitation and stall issues and I am thinking it is the carb. I am considering switching to EFI. After reading a number of threads was thinking about moving to the Holley Sniper. The mustang forums seem to think highly of the solution for the Cleveland. Anyone else have experience with the sniper?

Shashi, if you want help with your carb, let me know. If you're mentally on your way to EFI, let's not waste time with the carb.
Just to add a little more experience. I installed a FiTech unit on mine. I used their pump and filter kit and took the fuel supply from a fitting in the drain plug. The FiTech has run great for me. Fitech said that their control, varies the fuel pump speed based on demand. I don't hear the fuel pump of course my exhaust is loud. The engine starts with a click and idles nice. Never had any indication of knock or vapor lock. Occasionally on shut off when really hot a momentary run on. I'm quite happy with it. The control display is a nice rectangular piece that I mounted under the dash lip where I can watch while I am driving. Really like the second coolant temp readout on the display as opposed to the inaccurate factory gauge. I also get 3 to 4 more mpg.
Norm

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