what is a 7000 mile original import 1980 GT5 S worth I Have a price 0f 45000 what do you pantera fanatic think?
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i think you should call 505 869-2170 and talk to jimmy!
whos jimmy?
There is no such thing as a 1980 GT5S. The GT5S model was manufactured during 1984 with the first models offered as 1985 models.
It is possible the car is a GT5. There is a world of difference betwen the cars. E mail Claudia Lodi at DeTomaso to verify that the car is a real GT5. The price for that car, with all the usual caveats, is reasonable.
Percy Hill
It is possible the car is a GT5. There is a world of difference betwen the cars. E mail Claudia Lodi at DeTomaso to verify that the car is a real GT5. The price for that car, with all the usual caveats, is reasonable.
Percy Hill
The majority of the the differences is in the body. The GT5 is a stock bodied Pantera (71-74 Ford era (stamped?) sheetmetal) with flares added. The early GT5 cars had flares that were attached with a rivet type system and later cars had them attached with a molded look. The GT5 and GT5S cars also share a different squared off wheelhouse shape. However, I have seen early, (prototype?)cars with this shape. I believe the frame rails may have differed a bit also, but I haven't measured them side by side to confirm this. Essentially, the GT5 and GT5S were sometimes built side by side during the eighties as I have seen late model GT5 cars ('85 and up)in both the US and Europe. Minor wiring improvments were made as some of the cars were built. Unfortunately, I am informed that no wiring diagram is available for the GT5S cars. There is a GT5S car, built in 1989 in Europe that was manufactured by the factory with an L Pantera front per a customers order. Unusual.
The GT5S fenders/body work is all hand formed steel, presumably made on a English wheel. Craftsmen individually formed the mutifaceted curves that produced the final shape. I am informed that the GT5S had some of the most, if not the most expensive expensive sheetmetal work of any modern car. Source Pat Michal. If you look carefully at the fenders you will see curves and lines at differing angles on the same piece of metal. While some of the GT5S kit sheetmetal is very attractive, when you view the fender shapes next to a correct factory GT5S, there is a very large difference. The kit fenders are not as full, nor, do they correctly replicate the production work. But yes, very nice just the same. The kits also have a problem with the front hood. The GT5S fenders move straight across to the hood opening, while the kit sheetmetal has to stop at the older style dropped hood lines.
The GT5S fenders/body work is all hand formed steel, presumably made on a English wheel. Craftsmen individually formed the mutifaceted curves that produced the final shape. I am informed that the GT5S had some of the most, if not the most expensive expensive sheetmetal work of any modern car. Source Pat Michal. If you look carefully at the fenders you will see curves and lines at differing angles on the same piece of metal. While some of the GT5S kit sheetmetal is very attractive, when you view the fender shapes next to a correct factory GT5S, there is a very large difference. The kit fenders are not as full, nor, do they correctly replicate the production work. But yes, very nice just the same. The kits also have a problem with the front hood. The GT5S fenders move straight across to the hood opening, while the kit sheetmetal has to stop at the older style dropped hood lines.
Steve raises a good point regarding engineering. My car has had the original A-Arms remanufactured by Pat Michal to correct the lack of caster. I run just over 4 degrees caster and my car feels as if it has power assisted steering with fabulous road feel.
Further Pat remanufactured the factory Koni Ariston shocks with corect internal valving, these are rebuildable for life,with new and correct spring rates front and rear and they are now ride height adjustable. A knowledgeable Pantera owner (seven Panteras) drove my car and paid me this compliment. "The best handling Pantera he has ever driven. I loved the clutch" This includes his 1989 GT5S. My steering wheel returns toward center after a turn, I don't have to muscle the wheel back and forth.
So, all you have to do is call Pat Michal, ship your car to Massachusettes and write a pretty fair sized check. I encourage you to do it if you haven't because the other "fixes" out there, just don't get it done. For me, having a "real" GT5S as opposed to a clone was important. I didn't want to be a "wannabe" when it came to the integrity of what the car really was. I've seen this saying, "a Mule in horse harness is still a mule." No matter what you call it.
[This message has been edited by phill1 (edited 08-20-2003).]
Further Pat remanufactured the factory Koni Ariston shocks with corect internal valving, these are rebuildable for life,with new and correct spring rates front and rear and they are now ride height adjustable. A knowledgeable Pantera owner (seven Panteras) drove my car and paid me this compliment. "The best handling Pantera he has ever driven. I loved the clutch" This includes his 1989 GT5S. My steering wheel returns toward center after a turn, I don't have to muscle the wheel back and forth.
So, all you have to do is call Pat Michal, ship your car to Massachusettes and write a pretty fair sized check. I encourage you to do it if you haven't because the other "fixes" out there, just don't get it done. For me, having a "real" GT5S as opposed to a clone was important. I didn't want to be a "wannabe" when it came to the integrity of what the car really was. I've seen this saying, "a Mule in horse harness is still a mule." No matter what you call it.
[This message has been edited by phill1 (edited 08-20-2003).]
You sure sound like a Ferrari owner in Pantera clothing!
Josh[/B][/QUOTE]
If, by that you mean that I look for lighter balanced sportscar steering, instead of feeling as if I am driving an unassisted pickup with a big block, yes. If you mean I desire handling that can begin to measure up to high end sportscars made when my car was new in 1986, yes. Remember guys, DeTomaso did no, and I mean no engineering to accomodate 10" wide front wheels. In fact, DeTomaso's answer to getting the tires properly in the wheel wells was to place a spacer between the 10" wheel and the hub. Never mind the lack of caster. The A Arm suspension components for the GT5 and GT5S are THE SAME as on 71-74 cars.
As to despariging Ferrari ownership. It reminds me of a guy I knew who talked down membership in high end Country Clubs. I wonder why?
Percy Hill GT5S
Josh[/B][/QUOTE]
If, by that you mean that I look for lighter balanced sportscar steering, instead of feeling as if I am driving an unassisted pickup with a big block, yes. If you mean I desire handling that can begin to measure up to high end sportscars made when my car was new in 1986, yes. Remember guys, DeTomaso did no, and I mean no engineering to accomodate 10" wide front wheels. In fact, DeTomaso's answer to getting the tires properly in the wheel wells was to place a spacer between the 10" wheel and the hub. Never mind the lack of caster. The A Arm suspension components for the GT5 and GT5S are THE SAME as on 71-74 cars.
As to despariging Ferrari ownership. It reminds me of a guy I knew who talked down membership in high end Country Clubs. I wonder why?
Percy Hill GT5S
I think it is our Panteras that are stuck in between the Blue collar muscle car set and the Country club set. Anyway I like ORIGINAL Boss Mustangs just as much as Ferarris so I guess my old stock 72 Pantera is perfect for me. There does seem to be a number of Pantera people who have a bit of a complex about the cars being worth preserving. They seem to feel Panteras are only to be regarded as raw material for customizing projects and not great cars in their own right. Maybe it's a defensive thing because they already own a totally customized one and can't accept a different point of view. Even Blue collar muscle car types know better than to "upgrade a BOSS 302 or Shelby now, don't they?
Actually, i modified my 68 GT500.Ipulled out the 428 and put in a blown 460,did a rollcage etc.By the way im the original owner,and when i die it goes to my son.Not all young boys want Hondas!Different strokes for different folks,no matter the income,age,or mindset.
There's an exception to every rule. Some people are wealthy or foolish enough to have no concern about destroying the value of a very expensive and desirable car.
During the last 30 years I've also been a Porsche owner and have witnessed many Porsche conversions which are comparable to our very own Pantera conversions. Many Pantera conversions are to GP4, GT-5 and GT5S specifications and are similar to the conversions many Porsche owners undertake to Turbo look w/flares and slant nose with pop-up lights etc. etc.
When done correctly a Porsche conversion not only enhances the beauty and desirability of the car but also increases its value. The same can be said about our Pantera as long as the conversion is done correctly and along the lines of what the de Tomaso factory offered...a Gp4, GT-5 or GT-5S.
It is when a conversion turns into a custom job and is not along the lines of factory offerings that things can go wrong. The car is then modified to your tastes (not the factory's) which may or may not be appropriate for this Italian beauty.
What I find interesting is that in the Porsche community you don't hear any of the belittling and badgering and "my car is better than yours because it has pedigree" BS that's posted by a select one, two, or three folks on this board. I actually feel sorry for this unregistered lister and hope he's able to find some other way to expend his negative energy. So long.
Bob Eaton
1987 GT-5S
When done correctly a Porsche conversion not only enhances the beauty and desirability of the car but also increases its value. The same can be said about our Pantera as long as the conversion is done correctly and along the lines of what the de Tomaso factory offered...a Gp4, GT-5 or GT-5S.
It is when a conversion turns into a custom job and is not along the lines of factory offerings that things can go wrong. The car is then modified to your tastes (not the factory's) which may or may not be appropriate for this Italian beauty.
What I find interesting is that in the Porsche community you don't hear any of the belittling and badgering and "my car is better than yours because it has pedigree" BS that's posted by a select one, two, or three folks on this board. I actually feel sorry for this unregistered lister and hope he's able to find some other way to expend his negative energy. So long.
Bob Eaton
1987 GT-5S
quote:
Originally posted by Wataboutbob:
During the last 30 years I've also been a Porsche owner and have witnessed many Porsche conversions which are comparable to our very own Pantera conversions. Many Pantera conversions are to GP4, GT-5 and GT5S specifications and are similar to the conversions many Porsche owners undertake to Turbo look w/flares and slant nose with pop-up lights etc. etc.
When done correctly a Porsche conversion not only enhances the beauty and desirability of the car but also increases its value. The same can be said about our Pantera as long as the conversion is done correctly and along the lines of what the de Tomaso factory offered...a Gp4, GT-5 or GT-5S.
It is when a conversion turns into a custom job and is not along the lines of factory offerings that things can go wrong. The car is then modified to your tastes (not the factory's) which may or may not be appropriate for this Italian beauty.
What I find interesting is that in the Porsche community you don't hear any of the belittling and badgering and "my car is better than yours because it has pedigree" BS that's posted by a select one, two, or three folks on this board. I actually feel sorry for this unregistered lister and hope he's able to find some other way to expend his negative energy. So long.
Bob Eaton
1987 GT-5S
True also about the Koenig Ferraris. Highly modified and sought after.
The difference between AMG, Konig, Venom Vipers, Callaway or Lingenfelter Corvettes, Pro Drive Ferrari modifications and what any Harry or Bob cook up in their garage, bolting up parts from a vendor is night and day.
I agree with you Bob. I have owned a 911 and three 928 Porsche cars over the last 10 years, and witnessed a rapid increase in car snobbery in the club circle here. Only after joining the UK DETomaso club was my faith restored in club culture.
As for Pantera modifications, I was lucky enough to buy a 1987 GT5S last year, a car in truly immaculate condition, and i am fitting new front suspension arms to the car soon, the lack of caster is a serious design fault or area of neglect, especially on Irish roads, and if it can be corrected then why not. Pat Mical is a dedicated Pantera enthusiast, and there are many here who speak very highly of him. I have just purchased a 392 windsor for my car and he is flying over here to fit it for me, now thats service!!
As for Pantera modifications, I was lucky enough to buy a 1987 GT5S last year, a car in truly immaculate condition, and i am fitting new front suspension arms to the car soon, the lack of caster is a serious design fault or area of neglect, especially on Irish roads, and if it can be corrected then why not. Pat Mical is a dedicated Pantera enthusiast, and there are many here who speak very highly of him. I have just purchased a 392 windsor for my car and he is flying over here to fit it for me, now thats service!!