David,
I wholeheartedly agree. Chip’s build was the exception.
I may soon be forced to replace my 16“ x 17“ replicas and Chips wheel design is definitely on the list of possibilities.
Larry
I agree Larry, those are sweet..!! I like how he gave a hint of the original wheel in his interpretation. Really cool.
I usually admire what they do in that shop. Studying the photos I am wondering if they have lengthened the cabin?
One thing I hope they do not do is put the trademark doorhandles on a Pantera. Totally out of character but they seem to stick them on just about every car that comes their way☹️
anyone with computer skills care to do a point to point measurement analysis of their car versus a point to point analysis on a stock car??
Larry
Attachments
I wonder if they are planning some sort of forced induction ? The NA Coyote paired with the gearing in the Ricardo Ford GT transaxle will be quite a dog. The gearing is extremely high in stock form and a lower ratio R&P is in the neighborhood of $9k ( + installation) for them.
Ron
The unfinished NRE Pantera chassis was for sale for quite some time at something like $150k, they cut up a perfectly good 9000 series GT5 for that one and chucked all the old sheet metal (inner fenders etc.) in the dumpster. I find these 'hack job' shows hard to watch as they are typically just doing it for the sake of doing it, there's little gained in the end result.
It doesn't make sense to lengthen the car there. It would require widening the doors and custom glass work for the side windows. Very complicated initiatives. I doubt that they are taking that approach.
I just watched the latest episode. They built a Chevy C10 convertible with a retractable hardtop. The engineering and metalwork is amazing. When Kjeld spoke with them at SEMA, they did say they were going to find a way to make more room in the cockpit. Assuming the Roadster Shop provided a lengthened Pantera chassis, lengthening the doors and having new window glass made, looks like it would be a walk-in-the-park for them.
There are already Panteras that have deleted the front “vent” windows and have had custom one-piece glass windows fabricated for that modification.
The lengthening of the door is easily a non-issue modification for that shop.
hearing of Kjeld’s SEMA discussion, I am now quite convinced that the areas I circled in the photos are in fact evidence of the cabin being lengthened.
Larry
Kindig Pantera Project will air in Season 8 which starts late September early October....
Well, early October is near and Kindig’s season 8 is airing on the 5th or 6th, depending on which link you read…. on Motor Trend channel or various subscription services. No idea what episode the Pantera will show up in the new season. Might be able to Stream it earlier on Discovery +… just sayin…
Rich…
Is there a Detomaso do-rag?
if you're not just being funny, yes- there is a 12" x 16" shop towel with the car screened on it. If you mean a Harley type bandanna to keep hair just right, no.
You wouldn't see it on your head here since you have to wear a helmet. It's for keeping "your" bald head from getting sun burned more likely.
I don't see where you need to lengthen the cabin 3 or 4 inches. It might change the side perspective of the car. Hard to tell if that would be a positive or negative thing? That's something I would suspect of Foose.
If it is because of the Cleveland engine intrusion in the cabin, My thought is that it is the water pump primarily that causes the issue. I've never seen anyone shorten the shaft for the water pump pulley but every time I pull the engine cover, It's the first thing that occurs to me.
If you change that and cheat the engine mounts back an inch or so you could have a flat bulkhead with a Cleveland.
What would be an issue with a Pantera water pump? I realize that Ford would never have permitted it but am a little surprised that Detomaso never tried it on his own?
I've seen many of the alternative engines for the car. I don't see the haste in eliminating the Cleveland? It's as if people are trying to eliminate it's Ford heritage and make it something it never was.
You can't even say that you can't get a good replacement block since there is the Myer block available.
Doug, it would be pretty easy to eliminate the 351C water pump and convert to a remote electric water pump or pumps. That would allow for a flat firewall. That’s what Renegade Hybrid’s did with their Porsche Chev conversions. Lowering the engine in the chassis buys more room in front too.
Another way to buy more room in the cabin is to move the pedals forward. I have the SACC 2” pedal box spacer in my Pantera and it makes a HUGE difference to driver comfort. It makes installing the pedal assy. more difficult though.
I did the pedal relocation and the floor pan drop quite a while ago. The issue is needing more elbow room as a driver and giving the passenger a civilized seat location.
The lack of that is something I would have thought Ford would have made Detomaso fix.
You don't need to go to NASA extremes to fix it. Just shorten the water pump shaft and make a pulley for that.
Spacing out the pedal box was in one of Fords memo fixes when the cars were still new. Mine is spaced out 1-1/2". 2" would be too much for me.
Ford sells a 'street rod' water pump that's 2-1/4" shorter than a stock 351-C water pump. It's supposed to be for a 351-W but with a few simple changes, I found it fits a Cleveland as well. Haven't run it since it's now on my Fontana, which needs a few thousand dollars more for a crank, pistons & rods.
I also found the whole powertrain can be moved rearward in a Pantera by 1-1/2 " with little effort and no ill effect on handling. I was able to do this in 2010 by redrilling the upper motor mounts and bending a shallow 'S' into the ZF rear mount tabs. Beyond 1-1/2" back, the front sump of the oil pan hits the under-engine crossmember, causing even more issues. But that mod was more than enough to add a flat firewall access door and a 'big cap' distributor. There are POCA articles & photos on both these mods in the Archives.
JT, no one said anything about Tom Tjaarda who did the body and interior. As we all know, Gianpaulo Dallara designed the Pantera chassis following his design of the 1969 DeTomaso F-2 racer. Using the much wider & heavier Ricardo transaxle will cause problems with a stock rear subframe since that tranny has been found to not fit between stock rear rails. Widening the rails relocates the lower rear a-arm pickup points, altering Dallara's carefully balanced Pantera geometry. Raising the Ricardo makes the C/G even worse. So it appears they decided to solve these problems by building their own frame to accommodate. Any idea what famous designer did the work, or is it an experiment?
Seems strange since an existing 6-speed ZF from RBT as proposed for the 1st Ford GT would be a bolt-in and a stock shifter would work. I wonder how the "custom" car will handle; Dallara has made quite a nice living designing well handling performance car chassis over the last 50+ years, including most of the Indycars. Dallara has a shop in Indianapolis as well as the original in Italy for 'local' work on F-2 & F-3, and some of the E-race series. I think Andretti Racing uses them on its e-racers.
@bosswrench posted:Ford sells a 'street rod' water pump that's 2-1/4" shorter than a stock 351-C water pump. It's supposed to be for a 351-W but with a few simple changes, I found it fits a Cleveland as well. Haven't run it since it's now on my Fontana, which needs a few thousand dollars more for a crank, pistons & rods.
I also found the whole powertrain can be moved rearward in a Pantera by 1-1/2 " with little effort and no ill effect on handling. I was able to do this in 2010 by redrilling the upper motor mounts and bending a shallow 'S' into the ZF rear mount tabs. Beyond 1-1/2" back, the front sump of the oil pan hits the under-engine crossmember, causing even more issues. But that mod was more than enough to add a flat firewall access door and a 'big cap' distributor. There are POCA articles & photos on both these mods in the Archives.
JT, no one said anything about Tom Tjaarda who did the body and interior. As we all know, Gianpaulo Dallara designed the Pantera chassis following his design of the 1969 DeTomaso F-2 racer. Using the much wider & heavier Ricardo transaxle will cause problems with a stock rear subframe since that tranny has been found to not fit between stock rear rails. Widening the rails relocates the lower rear a-arm pickup points, altering Dallara's carefully balanced Pantera geometry. Raising the Ricardo makes the C/G even worse. So it appears they decided to solve these problems by building their own frame to accommodate. Any idea what famous designer did the work, or is it an experiment?
Seems strange since an existing 6-speed ZF from RBT as proposed for the 1st Ford GT would be a bolt-in and a stock shifter would work. I wonder how the "custom" car will handle; Dallara has made quite a nice living designing well handling performance car chassis over the last 50+ years, including most of the Indycars. Dallara has a shop in Indianapolis as well as the original in Italy for 'local' work on F-2 & F-3, and some of the E-race series. I think Andretti Racing uses them on its e-racers.
Using the Ricardo seems to be just part of the sometimes overwhelming desire to change these cars into something else.
I think some just got them too cheap. You wouldn't find someone modifying a Cobra or a Ferrari.
I once worked for a construction company that had a motto of "total control".
If by chance they could have wound up with a
Ferrari for nothing, they'd have it hauling garbage or a race horse pulling a donkey cart full of crap.
Total control.
Ford always overthought everything and missed the parts that needed attention. They wasted unknown amounts of money trying to better the ZF when it was the strongest, most reliable part of the Pantera. And the 'I-know-better' modifiers are still following that dictum. The Ricardo was overdesigned for a supercharged hi-torque cammer V-8 and had 6 speeds when it didn't need the extra gear- even for racing.
Season 8 Ep 1 is October 1. Details of the episode blank on Spectrum cable.