Looking for the best stroker option

Check out Dan Jones' thread on Mike Drew's 408 stroker Cleveland:
http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...50045562/m/994102665

Sounds like what you're looking to do. The Scat 393 stroker kit is also very popular. It's not difficult to make the kind of power you're looking for from a stroked 351C, or even a std displacement 351C for that matter.

Search this forum for engine builds for other's specs too.

You can hit 440 foot pounds & 450 bhp at 6000 rpm with a 351C, absolutely no need to buy a big crank with those power goals.

Here's a formula for you:

750 Holley
Edelbrock Air Gap intake
Trick Flow 2V heads
11.0:1 compression ratio
CompCams XE274 hydraulic flat lifter camshaft

result: 450 to 475 horsepower

Step up to an 850 Holley and pick up 5 more bhp
Step up to 1.8:1 ratio rocker arms for the intake valves and pick up 10 more bhp

Now you're just a nudge below 500 bhp. If you wanna grind a custom hydraulic roller cam we can put you over 500 bhp at 6000 rpm with a stock displacement motor.


-G

Jack,

Since you asked for thoughts here are my opinions on the three most popular strokers. The 377 would be my choice for high RPM durability, while it does fine in street tune, it's real niche is in ORR competition where RPM = top speed. The 393 would be my motor of choice for a street car. Plenty of low end torque for stop light-to-stop light fun with plenty left in the power curve to down shift into 3rd at 50 MPH and earn the respect of any gear head in sight. While it won't rev like a 377, the 393 has the displacement to take advantage of your 4V heads. The 408, while popular, I would tend to stay away from. The 408 requires that the oil ring intersects with the wrist pin on the piston which has been known to result in blow by, excess exhaust smoke and durability issues. The rod ratio is also such that excessive thrust loads are generated. The 408 makes great power, but at the cost of reliability.

Kits: Use extreme caution! Most of the less expensive kits use cranks and rods made in China and have a much higher failure rate than their U.S. counter parts. More than once have I heard someone buy one of those cranks only to spend more money on machine work to "get it right" than the cost of a quality crank. Be picky, select ALL of the proper parts, why scrimp here? Do you want to do a 4K stroker twice or a 7K stroker once? I am sure some where Dan Jones has posted the very recipe you are looking for, that guys has forgot more about Clevelands than I will ever know.

Some of the higher end kits here may work well and here is a decent thread on the subject here

All good advice here. Especially Cowboy's posts.

I must, however, disagree with questioning reliability on the 408. I have the Scat deal with what I consider a perfect parts list. 522 HP 510 FT LB of torque. Super reliable. Super durable. Docile in traffic and monstrous when stomping FCars. Hasn't failed once in 11 years of hard driving. Only engine work in 11 years was to replace a power valve in the carb and change plugs. Period. Not even a single tune up!

MY BUILD DETAILS:
http://www.panterapassion.com/Details_Engine.html
http://www.panterapassion.com/Details_Dyno.html


Ahhh, but the blow by. Yeah, no argument there. Not smoke, but definitely heavy oil consumption.

Hey Fella's

Cheers for info so far. So my current setup is as follows;

Holley 750 DP
1" 4 hole spacer
Edelbrock Air Gap
Comp cams Magnum 290HR
Comp cams Magnum roller rockers 1.72
Stock cast iron 4v closed chamber heads.

Def would like to keep the stock heads. The current pistons are dished, but not sure what the current compression ratio actually is. Hoping to get it as high as possible for 91 octane gas. What do you think that could be 10:5-1?

The bottom end needs a rebuild, so it will have to be done.. was thinking of a 393 or 383? As mentioned low end TQ would be great with the ability to hit 6500 with no worries for extended periods of time. I do not currently race, but who knows.
Right now the car feels good, but does not feel like it is making 400...
Anyhow, let me know if this info helps... I guess happy to buy bits seperate if, it is the way to go and I can get all the bits spec'd out.
Thoughts?
Cheers JC71

I quickkly modeled your engine in Dynomation. Unported 4V head flow data predicts 424 HP
at 5500 RPM. Substituting heads with short side radius work (the ones Dave McLain did for
Glen Hartog) and that goes to 466 HP @ 6000 RPM. Those numbers assume efficient mufflers.
What mufflers are you running? We've shown on the dyno that stock Pantera and Euro GTS
mufflers cost 50 HP on a 400 HP engine. A stroker kit will bring up the torque and feel
much stronger but have little effect on the peak power unless other changes (most importantly
the cam timing) are made.

Dan Jones

Hey Dan:

I am running the GTS Tri Y headers and GTS mufflers. So got the larger bore system.
The car pulls well once I get to 4K and I hit the rev limit all the time, which is set to 6400, as the engine runs really freely with plenty left. But it feels sluggish off the mark, and does not seem to have the type of low end TQ, that would make it more fun in the canyons.
Thoughts? And thanks in advance for the advice.
Cheers JC71

> I am running the GTS Tri Y headers and GTS mufflers. So got the
> larger bore system.

The headers aren't too bad but the GTS mufflers will cost you 50 HP
on a 400 HP to 500 HP engine.

> The car pulls well once I get to 4K and I hit the rev limit all the
> time, which is set to 6400, as the engine runs really freely with
> plenty left. But it feels sluggish off the mark, and does not seem
> to have the type of low end TQ, that would make it more fun in the
> canyons. Thoughts?

By itself, with no other changes, a stroker kit does not have much of
an effect on peak power. It does allow you to make more power while
retaining your low end torque (with a cam change) or it allows you to
move the power curve down (make th same power at a lower RPM). It
sounds to me that either a 393C or 408C kit would do what you want.
Here's an update from Mike Drew who got the 408C we did for him
installed yesterday:

"I took the car for a quick drive around the block. WOW! It is
completely and utterly transformed. Cruising at low rpm in 2nd gear,
I punched it, and after bucking once (due to the aforementioned carb
issues), it just lit up the tires, no clutch required. Just ZING!
Even when the tires hooked up, the aluminum flywheel let it rev like
crazy right up to redline. This thing is crazy, crazy fast compared
to how it ran before. After owning this car for 21 years, I finally
have the car I was supposed to have all along!"

As far as reasonable cost, off-the-shelf, kits go SCAT is my choice.
I prefer the forged steel crank versions though we've also done the
cast crank versions. If the budget is a little larger, there are
other options when you piece it together yourself.

You can retain your iron 4V heads, RPM Air Gap intake and even the
Comp HR290 cam though I can work something up that works better
across the rev range and makes 500+ HP.

Dan Jones

Hey Dan:

Really appreciate the info and whatever recommendations you can piece together. I guess my preference would be to keep the 4V heads, RPM Air Gap intake and Comp Cams 290HR. I would also prefer to not go as big as 408, as would like to keep the option for sustained high RPM 6500, etc. I am also open to both a kit and piecing together stuff, if the cost differential is not to large. As for the mufflers, I like the look of the stock can and pipes. I have heard the S. Wilkinson has been working on a revised stock can, that has way better flow characteristics. But not sure if that has materialized.
Anyhow, let me know what you think.
Cheers again.
JC71