Photo Blog: LS9 Engine Swap (6.2 liter OHV Chevy V8, supercharged, 638+ BHP)

Isn't a project like this worth whatever it costs?

If someone really wants to duplicate this project, "ball-parking" the price tag is pretty easy. If I were Chris and Scott, I wouldn't say how much it cost because then they'll just have to listen to people's opinions as to whether it's worth it or not.

My "beef" with this engine swap is, not only is it probably less expensive than my Fontana aluminum block based, SVO headed, IR EFI injected engine, it's probably more powerful and more reliable too. Not fair you guys :-(

If I was starting all over ...

Anyone want to buy an all aluminum Ford motor???

oh by the way i was referring chris bell's post on march 16th 2014 09:52

quote:

so calm down

Not sure why you made this comment.

I couldn't be any calmer unless I was listening to a Pink Floyd album smoking a doobie!!!

quote:

Originally posted by 73 l:
oh by the way i was referring chris bell's post on march 16th 2014 09:52

Here is what I said...

quote:

It's not so much as finding the cheapest solution, but more about finding a solution that makes sense for us and the LS9 fits every single need we had. Was it expensive? Yeah a little bit. But compare that to a comparable Ford engine (Ford GT motor: over $30k) and it is relatively cheap.

I completely stand behind my previous comment. If you look at the retail price of both motors (LS9: around $20k; Ford GT: over $30k), it is obvious that the LS9 is cheaper. Even when you add electronics and everything to run the engine, etc. it comes in under $30k.

We are doing more than just an engine swap, as many can tell. Did we need to do all of these modifications? No, but they make the car perform better. I can tell you that even if we put a Ford GT motor in the car, we would be making many of these systems modifications.

quote:

Originally posted by David_Nunn:
My "beef" with this engine swap is, not only is it probably less expensive than my Fontana aluminum block based, SVO headed, IR EFI injected engine, it's probably more powerful and more reliable too. Not fair you guys :-(

If I was starting all over ...

Anyone want to buy an all aluminum Ford motor???

Considering the extent of the work involved, the amount of fabrication, the project is beyond most's capabilities and well beyond "very interesting" but the only thing it makes me want is a Smithy. Then, look out world, I'm comin'! Hide all of your aluminum billet!

I'll just have to be happy with my iron Ford block, aluminum heads, Webers, 180 degree headers and a measly 550hp and 500 ft-lbs or torque, BUT it sure is enjoyable following the project.

Still don't see that cable shifter in there yet though?

After all is said and done, I'm just a yester-retro kinda guy anyway? Groovy. Peace man V!

quote:

Still don't see that cable shifter in there yet though?

It's in there Doug!!! I'll ask Chris to post some pictures...

I am having a hard time keeping Chris from wearing out my ZF while it sits there waiting to hit the streets.

He likes the shifter so much he just keeps shifting it and shifting it and shifting it. I keep telling him to knock it off but he has so much fun doing it I don't know what to do. Damm kids!!!

Does he just sit there making engine sounds and shifting?

Is it fair to say that the vast majority of the mods required in your swap from the LS3 to the LS9 were necessitated by the supercharger and its related components? It seems to me, a Pantera owner could install a dry sump LS7 for about half the cost of a Ford based equivalent. By "equivalent" I mean HP, TQ, weight, dry sump and EFI. In 2006, Hot Rod Magazine did an LS7 dyno test and found they could increase the engine's HP to 600 @ 6,800 RPM with only a cam and exhaust change.

In addition, if you wanted to mount the engine lower in the chassis, you guys now have that all figured out too. It seems pretty "bolt-in" without the complication of the supercharger.

quote:

Originally posted by David_Nunn:
Is it fair to say that the vast majority of the mods required in your swap from the LS3 to the LS9 were necessitated by the supercharger and its related components? It seems to me, a Pantera owner could install a dry sump LS7 for about half the cost of a Ford based equivalent. By "equivalent" I mean HP, TQ, weight, dry sump and EFI. In 2006, Hot Rod Magazine did an LS7 dyno test and found they could increase the engine's HP to 600 @ 6,800 RPM with only a cam and exhaust change.

In addition, if you wanted to mount the engine lower in the chassis, you guys now have that all figured out too. It seems pretty "bolt-in" without the complication of the supercharger.

For the most part. The fuel tank/fuel sump we did for better performance during track driving to ensure the engine doesn't get starved for fuel plus better weight distribution front to back. The only system that was done solely because of the supercharger was the intercooler system. Other than that, almost all changes would have been necessary for an LS7 swap as well (dry sump oil system, lowering the motor, moving the motor and trans back a couple of inches, airbox, etc.) because it is much better to leave the manifold in it's stock orientation and run the intake through the front.

The LS7 is a beast of a motor for sure. It was definitely a consideration when we were doing the original LS3 swap, but for this project, we wanted to go with the "cool" factor with the supercharger and get the biggest (in performance), & baddest motor.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
Does he just sit there making engine sounds and shifting?

Of course!!!

That can make a lot of spit. Make sure there are towels in the cabin.

quote:

For the most part. The fuel tank/fuel sump we did for better performance during track driving to ensure the engine doesn't get starved for fuel plus better weight distribution front to back. The only system that was done solely because of the supercharger was the intercooler system. Other than that, almost all changes would have been necessary for an LS7 swap as well (dry sump oil system, lowering the motor, moving the motor and trans back a couple of inches, airbox, etc.) because it is much better to leave the manifold in it's stock orientation and run the intake through the front.

The LS7 is a beast of a motor for sure. It was definitely a consideration when we were doing the original LS3 swap, but for this project, we wanted to go with the "cool" factor with the supercharger and get the biggest (in performance), & baddest motor.

The LS7 would be a bit easier but not by much. Chris is correct that most of the changes would still be needed. The intercooler was a Pain in the a$$ and so was the air intake. The LS7 air intake would be much easier since that manifold could be swapped 180 like we did on the LS3.

quote:

Originally posted by ZR1 Pantera:
[QUOTE]

It's in there Doug!!! I'll ask Chris to post some pictures...

Any update on when the cable shifter will be available to the public and the approximate cost?

quote:

Any update on when the cable shifter will be available to the public and the approximate cost?

Hi Richard,

I am very close to launching the product for sale. I made some geometry changes to the shifter end to improve the feel and am extremely happy with the result.

I am shooting for the price to come in under $1000.00. Early adopters may get an additional discount.

The unit is completely installed and functional in our project car for anyone that is close-by that wants to sit in the car and make rum-rum noises while shifting the car.

Take care, Scott

quote:

Originally posted by ZR1 Pantera:

quote:

Any update on when the cable shifter will be available to the public and the approximate cost?

Hi Richard,

The unit is completely installed and functional in our project car for anyone that is close-by that wants to sit in the car and make rum-rum noises while shifting the car.

Take care, Scott

....beda beda beda varoom, boom bada bada boom bada bada.

It's got a cam.

We finally got back to work on the ZR1 Pantera project. I am happy to report we finally got the LS9 fired up last night for the first time. OMG did it sound GREAT. We had a couple of issues to work through but have now had the engine up to operating temperature a couple of times. Still not drivable since we have not yet built the hatch cover or the exhaust. We used the old LS3 exhaust to get the engine fired up. The sound of the blower whine is GREAT!!! More to come shortly!!!

Scott, you are such a tease. No pictures? I just may die of anticipation. LOL Congrats

quote:

Scott, you are such a tease. No pictures? I just may die of anticipation. LOL Congrats

LOL... Chris is mostly in charge of posting pictures but he has been, shall we say, busy with other more important activities.

He says he will do a complete update this weekend but if he doesn't I will...

Here is my updated fuse panel. Not as pretty as some but it only cost me about 20 bucks. 20 circuits not counting a complete engine harness with integrated engine systems fuse panel.

Here is a shot of the drivers side area where the fuel tank used to be. It is getting a bit full in this area with new systems. The red at the bottom of the picture is the top of the battery that was relocated from the front trunk to here.

Saturday a COMPLETE update with pictures AND videos will come. A little anticipation never hurt anybody...

I haven't checked in with this thread since it began and I just re-discovered it. Super cool. All the fabrication work and custom bits are fantastic. I'm very interested in your cable shifter as well. I'm even more interested to see how the car drives when you get it on the road. Boost on!

Scott,

Your car is gonna rip........can't wait to see and hear that video. Awesome engineering. Keep it up!!!

Mark

I'm holding you to that promise of pictures on Saturday. You don't want to disappoint the Reaper.

Scott,

I'd love to see a video of a quick 1st to 2nd shift with the new cable shifter!

quote:

Originally posted by The Reaper:
I'm holding you to that promise of pictures on Saturday. You don't want to disappoint the Reaper.

Well with two hours to go, here is the update (as promised because I don't want to upset the Reaper )

After two months (from our last update), we have finished so much on the car.



Here are our main items we finished on the car:

Air Intake: We finished the intake system and have the air filter installed and functional. The only thing we have left to do is build our side gill and build an air box around the filter. We should be finishing this within the next month.



Wiring: We did an enormous amount of wiring over the past two months. September was almost completely dedicated to wiring within the car. We finished wiring the controller for the air suspension, re-wired the entire interior of the car including a new fuse block for both the driver and passenger side, as well as integrating the engine controller wiring into the car. We also re-located the battery and moved the main power cable to the middle of the car. The wiring was a huge process that is now complete.



Fuel Tank: We got the fuel tank completely installed in the car including fuel lines, fuel pumps, etc. From our preliminary calculations, we calculated that the tank would hold around 14-15 gallons. After filling it with 10 gallons of fuel, it looks like the tank will be around 16-16.5 gallons. Very good size for our application. (Especially since the LS9 will get around 21 MPG on the freeway.)







Fluids: We filled the engine up with all of it’s fluids! Oil, fuel, and coolant.

Over the last week we got the engine started! We had an issue initially with the engine harness not firing the cylinders on the right side of the engine, but it turned out to be a connection issue within the harness. We got that problem fixed and then we decided to install the old exhaust system from the LS3 to get it fired up. After that bolted right up, we were able to start the engine, and WOW, this thing sounds great. Watch the two videos below and you will hear what I am talking about!

(At time of posting, the videos are still uploading. They should be up and ready in about an hour )
https://vimeo.com/110684477
https://vimeo.com/110684503

Our last issue that we are overcoming now is an issue with our clutch connection to the engine. Unfortunately, when we first mated the engine and the tranny, we noticed an issue with the clutch disengaging. We recognized the issue and it was going to be a 50-50 shot if the clutch was going to disengage fully when installed. Unfortunately, the clutch does not fully disengage, like we had anticipated early on. Our next step will be pulling the transmission out, by itself, and swapping out the current throwout bearing with a hydraulic version that will have more throw. A slight monkey wrench in the project but not detrimental. We will get that changed out and we should be on the street in no time.

Once we have that issue knocked out, our last projects include finishing the air intake system, the intercooler system, the LS9 exhaust system, and buttoning up the interior including fabricating our new hatch cover. If all goes well, we should be on the road in the next month or two.

dude congratulations!

That's awesome! Congrats!

Awesome effort guys. Congratulations! Very impressive feat.

Congrats Scott and Chris !!! Excellent work !!!

Fantastic !!

Nice work!!!


Ron

Just one word .....

Wait for it ......


AMAZING!

quote:

Just one word .....

Wait for it ......


AMAZING!

LOL!!!! Good one!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by desert_detomaso:

Just one word .....

AMAZING!

Very impressive work Scott and Chris ! ! You guys are mega talented ! ! Thanks for sharing !

I am also interested in the cable shifter and was able to get a feel for it first hand. I'd seen and played with it at the POCA fun rally and was impressed, but it wasn't hooked up to a ZF there. Last month we were in Temecula and were able to stop by and visit with Scott in his shop and got to shift it in his car. He said they still had a few tweaks to do, but I thought it was fantastic as it was. The shifting was very light an precise and the throw was significantly (1/2?) shorter and the shifter was perfectly centered in the gate. On my car the shifter is maxed out (almost rubbing the gate) in R and 4th-5th.

I had a few concerns (about grit, dirt, and wear and also corrosion of bare aluminum) which I asked about in a followup email. Scott replied

"The reason the stock unit is enclosed in a case is because the pivot shaft must be heavily greased to function normally. It has a ball socket arrangement that must be clean and greased for a smooth operation.

Our design is maintenance free and does not require grease. There is nothing that will get gummed up with road grit with our design. There are only 2 moving parts. The rail direction movement has a ball bearing for the pivot. The cables are marine grade cables so they will be fine in the environment of the Pantera engine compartment. There is ZERO wear in the gear select direction of movement. Nothing to gum-up or get dirty that would affect functionality. There is nothing to have reservations about regarding the environment."

So now all we need to know is availability and price

Great work. Very impressive.

I really like the sound of the supercharger. This engine sounds really healthy in there -- I'm sure you guys can't wait to put some street and/or track time on that bad boy. Congratulations! Looks like the stock engine cover would fit if you wanted it too. Total sleeper.......

Mark

So after a few weeks of troubleshooting, with tons of measuring and CAD drawings, we figured out what the issue was with the clutch.

We were completely off with the thought that the throw of the bearing was the issue. Our clutch only requires .375 in of throw to disengage, and we had well over .700 in of throw. After we figured that out, it was back to the drawing board to find the issue. We spent lots of time measuring the clutch and the transmission and drew both in CAD to see if we could diagnose the issue on the computer. Sure enough, after enough analysis, we figured out that the stack height within the clutch was too tall, and was arranged in a way that the second clutch disk was too thick to be completely engaged on the spline, and was rubbing on the stepped edge of the spline causing the disk to be engaged even when the clutch was depressed all the way.

The solution: we called up SPEC and discussed with their tech support and they decided that they would build us a new set of clutch disks based on our CAD drawings that would engage the splines correctly. In about 5 days, we had a new set of clutch disks sitting on our front porch, and sure enough, once we got those re-installed in the transmission, they worked like a charm!

The reason we had this issue is because of the design of the dual-disk clutch for the LS9. It was designed for the ZR1 Corvette, obviously, and the Corvette is designed with the transmission in the rear of the car with a torque tube that spans the distance between the engine and the transaxle. Because of this, they do not have to deal with the clearance issues that come with a transaxle being bolted directly to the engine.

After we got that issue fixed, we decided to go for a drive in the car before finishing up the rest of the systems.



The car drove GREAT and wow does it have a lot of power. Unfortunately, the car started to feel a little bit less powerful after driving for about 20 minutes and then we got a check engine light. We figured that it probably had something to do with the intake air temperature since the intercooler is not yet functional. After we came back to the shop we plugged in our laptop and sure enough, we had two trouble codes, Intake Air Temperature Warning Level 1 and Intake Air Temperature Warning Level 2. As expected, the intake air was getting a bit too hot for comfort so the engine started to pull timing to protect itself and threw a check engine light and trouble code. Even with that little issue, boy was it nice to drive the car after over a year of hiatus.

When we got back it was time to get some of the other items on our to-do list finished. The first thing on that list was obviously the intercooler.

Our previous design for the intercooler connections was a bit convoluted due to the space constraints between the firewall and the engine. We came up with a great new design that looks WAY better.



We also got the intercooler lines from the back of the car to the front of the car. (Also, check out all of the lines that span the length of the car! We will be constructing some nice stainless steel splash shields to protect all of our lines.



Our last tasks include finishing the connections for the intercooler to the intercooler radiator at the front of the car, constructing a new exhaust system using the LS9 exhaust manifolds (temporary until we decide to go with 180 headers), finishing the air intake system, finish the roll bar installation, upholster various interior pieces including the engine hatch cover, etc.

We are so close to having a completely functional car. With the exception of some other miscellaneous tasks that we have after our last big tasks, the car is almost done! We are aiming to have all of our tasks completed over the next 30 days to give us ample time between then and our next track event to break-in the engine and work out any bugs. We will be out at Willow Springs this March so we can track test our new beast!

Check out some additional pics of some other things we got completed over the past two months including the installation of our new seats and roll bar

Great work Scott and Chris !

Congrats!

Chris,

How was the "new" cable shifter on your drive?

quote:

Originally posted by David_Nunn:
Chris,

How was the "new" cable shifter on your drive?

WOW! It was great. I couldn't believe how great it drove. It felt like a very smooth, modern shifter. None of the issues that plague the standard mechanical shift rod shifter apply with the new cable shifter.

Check out our new toy for the garage... BendPak 4 post lift

Awesome work there guys! I still dont know how I feel about a chev in a Pantera but I do love the LS motors. I also love the technology advance. The execution is incredible as well. Nice work!

Put some miles on the car today! What a blast. The blower whine is so cool! It ran great. Only put about 30 miles on it but so far so good. No problems to speak of.

Next I need to build the LS9 exhaust as I installed the stock LS3 exhaust so I could get it out on the road for a test drive.

The engine really likes to rev. Way more than the LS3 did. Only getting about 5 pounds of boost so I need to look into that. Not sure if the restrictive exhaust would contribute to a lower boost output???

Put another 120 miles on the new engine today. Not a single issue! I love the blower whine.

I have some small items to button up and then it is off to Willow Springs in March.

I also am VERY happy with the cable shifter system. It is very smooth and precise. It is unaffected by heat or engine/drive train movement and never needs to be greased!

By the way, anyone see that shiny new lift I recently installed in my garage. Man, I should have done that long ago!

Scott

quote:

By the way, anyone see that shiny new lift I recently installed in my garage. Man, I should have done that long ago!

Not sure I'd install a lift with the word "bend" in it...

Looks good, I have a scissor lift, gets most jobs done, not enough vertical space for something like you got...

quote:

Not sure I'd install a lift with the word "bend" in it...

Looks good, I have a scissor lift, gets most jobs done, not enough vertical space for something like you got...

Good one. They actually started business making tubing benders for the muffler shop market. Thats where the name came from. Unlike some of the other copies, they have been making lifts for 40+ years!

A scissor lift would be very nice as well however we are also taking advantage of the extra space to park my son's car in the garage.

Hey Scott.

Any Video of the car out on the prowl?
I would love to hear it.

Evan

I just helped my neighbor install one of those Bendpak's in his garage. Seems to be a pretty nice piece of equipment.

quote:

Any Video of the car out on the prowl?
I would love to hear it.

Evan

Hi Evan, My Son and I will work on a video this weekend and see if we can't get something posted so you can hear the beast!

I thought with the new engine and a trip to Willow Springs coming up in March, I better get some new shoes for the Pantera!

Took the car out for another long drive this weekend. Have you ever heard of adding 2 tie wraps and getting about 100 horsepower more!

Neither did I!!!! But that is exactly what happened!!!

I can finally say that this car is scary fast. I was a bit disappointed when I first got the car running with the power level. It was faster than before but just wasn't as fast as I thought it should be. I haven't installed the new exhaust and the current exhaust is VERY restrictive so I though that might be the issue but it still seemed like it should be faster.

So last weekend I installed a boost gauge and low and behold, I was only getting 4.5 pounds of boost MAX!!!

The LS9 has a blower bypass butterfly valve that when open, it creates a passage around the blower. The stock GM Engine Management Computer controls the valve. I forgot all about that valve. The Engine Management Computer I am using doesn't have this specialized control.

So yesterday I took 2 tie wraps and forces the valve off, all the time, off!!!

OMG, what a difference!!! This thing runs like a bat out of hell. I couldn't be happier. And I am still running the restrictive exhaust. I can't wait to see how it feels with a free flowing exhaust.

And I am getting north of 20 MPG!!!!

Pretty amazing!

Scott & Chris, have fun & don't get hurt. You know I care about you guys.

That type of power gives me reason to be concerned. Respect it. I know a guy who crawled out of the wreckage of his 505 BHP LS7 Corvette. Alive today due to seat belts, crumple zones, and sheer luck.

Finding so much power with such a small thing, great! Almost like remembering to pick up the anchor on your boat

Congrats!

quote:

That type of power gives me reason to be concerned. Respect it.

Yes, indeed. I have the utmost respect for the new level of power. We mainly use the power on the track but it is also such a blast on the street. Very, very careful on the street. After I get the exhaust done I am going to have to go do some 0-60 and 1/4 mile runs to see where we are!

Years ago a spun the car on a freeway onramp and since then I decided to be smart and have fun on the track and be safe on the street. It was a wakeup call...

If things get too wild, you can always take the tie-wrap off....

Rocky

PS> The motor looks awesome. Congrats.

quote:

If things get too wild, you can always take the tie-wrap off....

Good idea but I don't see that happening. Maybe if I let anyone else drive the car.

just from a google search, I found mention that the blow bypass valve was vacuum operated.

with high manifold vacuum (and boost not needed) the butterfly opens and reduces the parisitic load of an useless blower.

with loss of manifold vacuum (accelerating or high power demand) the butterfly closes.

maybe just disconnecting the vacuum hose would do the same as the tie wrapes, but it sounds like a feature you would want

please note this is just keyboard mechanic/engineering as I an humbled by your work

quote:

I am going to have to go do some 0-60 and 1/4 mile runs to see where we are

I look forward to see if your modern tech will outrun my old school engine. BTW, I don't get 20 mpg...

Where is this ending? Will you market a kit so others can do the same as you? Or is it too much of a hassle to do, sometimes one finds during a customization like that that it's not worth all the effort? The mpg is not that important to me, don't drive it daily, but the drivablity, the 100k+ miles lifespan and the peace of mind driving it on long trips would be great

Maybe, just like with our cars, it's the journey, rather than the destination?

I think that question was probably asked to Sir Edmund Hillary, Jørgen Jørgensen (one time Danish Ruler of Iceland), and Magnús Ver Magnusson (Worlds Strongest Man 91-96 - although he is Icelandic).



Rocky

quote:

Where is this ending?

Well, my car is never done so I do not know where it will end.

quote:

Will you market a kit so others can do the same as you?

I do not plan to offer a kit for the LS9. If someone wants help with doing the same install I would certainly help. I already have a kit for the LS conversion but the LS9 is A LOT MORE WORK!!!!!

quote:

Or is it too much of a hassle to do, sometimes one finds during a customization like that that it's not worth all the effort?

It was ABSOLUTELY NOT to much hassle and it was worth every second of effort. I couldn't be happier with the result and would do it again in a heartbeat.

quote:

The mpg is not that important to me, don't drive it daily, but the drivability, the 100k+ miles lifespan and the peace of mind driving it on long trips would be great

The MPG is not important to me either but it is a nice side benefit. The driveability is great and the piece of mind is also very important. In fact, the piece of mind is in my opinion, the most important.

After I installed the LS3 years ago, the car became something I really loved to drive. Not that I didn't before, but it became so much more enjoyable because it ran like a factory new car and I never had a second thought of something possibly going wrong during a long trip somewhere. I know there are folks that get that now with the 351C but I never got that kind of piece of mind when I had my 351C. From a broken drive pin to a coil going bad to whatever, it just wasn't stress free. I have received so much more enjoyment since doing my initial engine change despite some negative comments from a small group of people.

I still have some items left to do to get the LS9 project completed. The biggest thing left is the exhaust. I don't know how much more power I will get from removing the restrictive exhaust but whatever it is, is just icing on the cake. Still can't wipe the smile off my face everytime I think about driving my new car!

quote:

just from a google search, I found mention that the blow bypass valve was vacuum operated.

with high manifold vacuum (and boost not needed) the butterfly opens and reduces the parisitic load of an useless blower.

with loss of manifold vacuum (accelerating or high power demand) the butterfly closes.

maybe just disconnecting the vacuum hose would do the same as the tie wraps, but it sounds like a feature you would want

please note this is just keyboard mechanic/engineering as I an humbled by your work

You are exactly right, there are three things that control the butterfly, vacuum, boost and the electronic solenoid. You could be right, disconnecting the vacuum line may indeed solve the issue. I may experiment with having it connected/disconnected and also having the boost line connected/disconnected to see how the engine and boost behave. But I couldn't be happier with how it runs with the 2 tie wraps!

quote:

Maybe, just like with our cars, it's the journey, rather than the destination?

For me it was both!!!

Check out our new video introducing the car....

https://vimeo.com/133242418

Chris, it looks and sounds great.

I checked out the CNC Performance shifter, which has a link to SACC, but can't seem to find it on your website. Can you post a link?

Keep up the innovations too.

Lie,
He's been teasing us with this shifter conversion for awhile now. I couldn't find it on his website either. Bet he'll sell a ton of them.

Nicely donbe

quote:

I checked out the CNC Performance shifter, which has a link to SACC, but can't seem to find it on your website. Can you post a link?

Hi Lui,

I will get the product up on our website in the next couple of days. A lot has been going on in the background to get this product available on a large scale. More to come on that shortly.

Scott

Looks great!! Congrats. You guys worked hard on that one. Good luck keeping those tires planted!!

Looks like she was having no problem accelerating in the video!!! Great work Scott! I would really like to hear your new exhaust.
Jeff

Haven't updated this thread in a while. We have been sidelined with other projects but I want to get back and get the Pantera finished. I completed the AirRide suspension and really like the ride and being able to slam the car at car shows. I am now adding ride height sensors to give it even better control.

Here is a picture of the undercarriage...

Since this was asked in another post I thought I would post the link...

Here is a video of our Pantera with the LS9 conversion and cable shifter. It has a pretty awesome sound to it (and we haven't even worked on the exhaust yet).

Here is the video: https://vimeo.com/133242418

Also, we get the question a lot on why we chose the LS9 engine and I just wanted to give a quick bullet point list on why we chose the LS series over anything else:

• Our first thought was to build a beefy Cleveland motor but we knew that it would not be able to make as much power as reliably as a crate motor and reliability was one of our top 3 concerns. So that meant we needed to start looking at crate motors.
• The LS series is an extremely compact series of engines. Further, the new LT series of Chevy crate motors is even more compact than the LS series. This was the main reason why we chose the Chevy. It offers the best packaging of any crate motor that was on the market at the time. We did consider going with the very common 5.0 Coyote crate motor but we didn't because it is a lot bigger of an engine (wider/bulkier/heavier).
• The LS series also offered the best value based on the power to cost ratio. When comparing engines, the LS offered the most power for the price. When looking at the Coyote motor, it was almost double the cost of the LS3 that we originally installed in the car and offered less horsepower and much less torque.
• When we got tired of the LS3 power, we chose the LS9 because..... well just because it would be cool... lol. It was a logical extension from our original LS3 installation. The LS9 has a similar block design as the LS3 which allowed the engine to fit extremely well, even with the supercharger installed. Now that the LT4 is out, that engine offers even more power in a more compact package than the LS9 so it is a great choice to swap into the Pantera.

This is all information that we have talked about in our threads before but I feel like it was necessary to reiterate the information as more people are interested in swapping an LS/LT motor into their car.

The way we look at it is it's our car and we are going to make it how we want it no matter who likes it or not. We are in no way married to the idea of the Chevy crate motors but until another company makes a comparable engine with the value-to-power-to-packaging value that Chevy does, it will remain as one of the best options.

After almost four months straight working every weekend, we finally got a weekend off to work on our own car!

Since we installed the LS9, we have been using the exhaust system that we made when we installed the LS3, including the extremely restrictive LS3 exhaust manifolds.

We started the planning stages of our new exhaust system this past week and are finally getting started on building it.

The LS9 came with what is best described as a shorty header. It is constructed of stainless steel and it flows extremely well for a stock exhaust manifold. We thought about making custom headers but we decided we wanted to keep the engine as stock as possible.

In order to get our exhaust system perfect, we decided to buy some PVC pipe to mock up how we want it to flow. After we got the basic design, we started building it.

We're going to keep some of the details hidden until we get further along but here are some pics of our progress.













We will be bringing the exhaust up on both sides of the engine and out the back.

Not bad for a couple amateurs, right?

That car is awesome ! I dig it...

An inspiration!

I didn't read through all 18 pages, so apologies if someone has already said this...

This is what Ford gets for discontinuing development of pushrod engines. Enthusiasts do not want physically larger/heavier/more complex engines (that often do not make any additional power).

I don't intend to hi-jack this thread, I just want to point out to Perry H and everyone that may be thinking of a crate engine that the LS9 crate engine is being phased-out. It was $26,403.00, the price has been lowered $5000, down to $21,403.00. So its an even better deal ... while supplies last as they say.

But the Ford guys have this Jack Roush supercharged 5.0 liter 600 bhp crate engine pictured below, based on Ford's Coyote engine. $24,675.00

Ford Racing sells a 351W based crate engine for $11,000, 4.150 bore x 4.250 stroke (460 cubic inches) rated at 575 horsepower; naturally aspirated with a single four barrel carburetor. Jack Roush has a 351W based $14,000 crate engine, 427 cubic inches, 550 horsepower, naturally aspirated with a single four barrel carburetor.

There is something for everybody.

quote:

This is what Ford gets for discontinuing development of pushrod engines.....

It seems hard for me to believe that there is a single Ford executive anywhere who is concerned in any way about the new development occurring on a 45 year old chassis that they once sold through their LM dealerships...

I think you are absolutely correct.

No Ford executives (key word there) care about aftermarket enthusiasts swapping LS engines into projects (not just Panteras) that previously would have had small block Fords in them.

Sorry for derailing your thread with my gripe. I was actually cheering you on - really nice job. I think this (LS9 Pantera) is an awesome project. I think the choice makes a lot of sense over a modern Ford engine.

Referring to the picture. The one on the right has more displacement.

I know which one I would rather work on and try to fit in an engine compartment. The photo is a 4.6L DOHC and a 302, but a new Coyote is not much narrower than the 4.6 and a 351 is not much wider that a 302 (relatively in the context of this physical comparison).

This certainly is not a huge market that makes or breaks a giant corporation. But... if the decision is made objectively (without loyalty to a certain brand or considering past partnerships) modern (note "modern") engines transplanted into older cars, kit cars, race cars, etc., going forward will mostly be GM products due to packaging except for the most die hard Ford guys that go to the extra trouble and frustration. Most (like me) will probably stick with running the 60's era push rods instead.

Ford transitioned to the OHC engines around 1996. These are almost certainly more expensive to produce - not to mention the R&D invested. What did it get them? Refinement? For pickup trucks, vans, and Mustangs? Ability to meet emissions and efficiency regulations? GM seems to have that covered.

Ok - sorry again. I am done. Awesome car.