Pantera #4524 - 3800 Mile Pantera?

There is no way in heck that is a 3800 mile car.
Really, drivers seat bolster is torn, tires original and completely worn on the inside tread. Was taken apart for full repaint. Wear in the drivers carpet. Oh, and get this surprise, no supporting documentation on said 3,800 miles.
73,800 miles maybe, but not 3,800

Oh, and rumored to have been owned by an astronaut. If you stair into the radio you can see the ghost of Michel Jackson

103,800 miles

Where are you seeing pictures of the interior?

They have been posted on their site for weeks
They just added some pics as they started to put the car together.

Looks like an early dash board with later model bumpers. Is that possible?

dash is okay, I think it serial numbers line up with the time where it was possible to get either the single or dual pod dash.
I just think the previous owner may have popped in another speedo, maybe the original crapped out and he was able to source a new one or something.
I think it is a bit of a stretch for the auction company to call this a 3,800 mile original.

quote:

Originally posted by sjdennis:
Looks like an early dash board with later model bumpers. Is that possible?

Absolutely. The other way around too.

As for that being a 3800 mile car... I agree, that seems VERY unlikely.

Mark

how are you viewing pics of the Pantera? All i can view is the one front right view.

A set of photos here:
http://www.vanderbrinkauctions...hp?page=6&detail=165

I'm inclined to support a low mileage story. Look at the shift knob, gate and rod. It doesn't look like 100,000 miles worth of wear. Also, original radio, brake master and clutch master. Roached out for sure, but it looks like it has good bones.

I wonder why one photo shows bumpers/headlamps on and another shows removed?

Is the seperate dual snorkal air cleaner for a Pantera?

A few good ways to document a purported ultra low mileage car, especially a "3,800" mile car.

"1"...Does it have the original as delivered spark plugs, oil filter, rotor, cap, spark plug wires, fuel filter.

"2"...Original disc pads & subsequent wear in accordance with stated mileage.

"3"...Wear on all switches. Should be NO indication of wear with only 3,800 stated mileage, especially the windshield wiper switch. In 3,800 miles, how many times if ANY was the car driven in the rain??!!

"4"...The plastic gears to manually raise the lights, should be PERFECT!!!

"5"...Headlamps should be as delivered & possibly date coded.

"6"...The male seatbelt insert should show as new & the passenger male seatbelt insert should appear PERFECT!!!, as if it has NEVER been used. Figuring in 3,800 miles...How many times was there a passenger in the passenger seat???!!!

"7"...Should have the COMPLETE tool kit with ALL the fuses, figuring...In 3,800 miles ...How many times was a fuse blown & needed to be replaced?!...answer should be ZERO!!!

"8"...Should have original keys, & the points of the keys should appear unworn & SHARP!

"9"...The chrome area around the driver's side key insert should be relatively scratch free & the passenger side should be PERFECT!!...in 3,800 miles...How many times was the passenger door opened via a key???!!...less then 10?

There's a brief list from my "Detective Handbook of documenting Ultra Low Mileage Cars"...available online at Amazon for $59.99 autographed copies are $39.99...Mark

Nice car, good buy for $45k or less.
But never ever a 3800 mile car.

I'm with Quickitty et al on this one... not a chance in my book that it's a 3,800 car. The seat wear always tells the tail. Plus, tires, carpet etc. Hard to tell about the shifter plate from the crappy pic, but then again...changing those is the same 5 min job now as it was 20 yrs ago. If the speedo was swapped, the owner certainly had the ability to change the shifter/plate. One additional item that hasn't yet been mentioned ..look at the wear on the driver's door arm rest..... I would presume flying seat belt "release" wear...?? However it got there...significant wear. Certainly not indicative of 3,800.



Anyway.. I too think it's a bit irresponsible for them to advertise it as 3,800 miles, with so many signs of wear, unless of course.. it can be substantiated with documentation. Which it seems does not exist.

All that said, I agree with gilles' remark.. it does look to have good bones. Keep in mind, as the crew reading this knows all too well, these sexy girls rot from the inside out. For all practical purposes, it's been sitting on the Fla coast for its entire life. (quick story: I once pulled the door handle off of a 69 stang I was looking at down there when I opened the door :-). This, while candy shell still looked pretty). In my book, it needs a full restoration! No question. If you pay -anywhere- near $45k you will quickly be upside down vs. the market. You're better off buying one of the many that are for sale on the net from $47-67K right now. And..you don't have to deal with the headache of a project, and could start enjoying it this summer.

Just my $0.02...

"All that said, I agree with gilles' remark.. it does look to have good bones. Keep in mind, as the crew reading this knows all too well, these sexy girls rot from the inside out. For all practical purposes, it's been sitting on the Fla coast for its entire life. (quick story: I once pulled the door handle off of a 69 stang I was looking at down there when I opened the door :-). This, while candy shell still looked pretty). In my book, it needs a full restoration! No question. If you pay -anywhere- near $45k you will quickly be upside down vs. the market. You're better off buying one of the many that are for sale on the net from $47-67K right now. And..you don't have to deal with the headache of a project, and could start enjoying it this summer."

I agree completely. I buy cars with good bones in this market for high teens, low 20's .........this is no exception.

@quickitty

where are these cars. I am looking for a race car project body but can't find anything for such a reasonable price as you said.
I have the group 3 fenders and rims and stuff here but unable to start with the project.
Can you help out?

Here is one currently at 20K on e-bay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Other-...60&item=231513374560

There was another on craigslist that just got flagged, although I doubt it was a scam. Probably someone did not want the info getting out. It was a project shell for 12K

They are out there. Just got to hunt them down.

quote:

Originally posted by gilles027:
Haw much do you ned?

I have a 1971 complete body with doors,front and decklid, some minor rust easy to fix.

Only the body with papers, no mechanical parts.

Kjeld


where are these cars. I am looking for a race car project body but can't find anything for such a reasonable price as you said.
I have the group 3 fenders and rims and stuff here but unable to start with the project.
Can you help out?

Interesting piece. Doubts about the 3,800 also. Possibly a shy documenter missed the '0' on 38,000 but that's giving some credit.

The Arrivas do raise a question of potential legitimacy for low miles, but not seemingly THAT low.

Regardless, hopefully the car will get resurrected to drive another day. Sure will have a backstory!

Though a bit off-topic, can someone tell me why the half shafts are orange? My one-owner 21k (when I got it) 74 had 'blue green' half shafts, though flaking pretty good.

My best guess, It looks like someone did some "rattle can" red oxide paint where maybe there was some rust. I noticed that under the door guide and on the rocker, lower fenders and such. Looks like the same red oxide on the half shafts and clutch cylinder. Probably to prevent surface rust.
I have a 10,000 mile car here and I believe the half shafts are (or were) cad plated. Where I have cleaned a spot they have that yellow tinge that resembles cad plating, not sure if that is correct either.

As with most Pantera questions, it depends.... Stock halfshafts were often aluminum-painted while Spicer halfshafts were cad-iridited. That is, yellowish like a Holley carb.

OK.. who bought the yellow ebay project car?

yellow car

Let's hear the details..... come on....

Not me, but I must admit, was thinking about it.
Looked like a lot of fun.
Actually liked the design of the body mods, hard to pull that off and make it look good.

Don't know who bought it but for the past 3 days I had the high bid at $20,100. Interesting.

Were you able to have a look at the car? Was it solid?

Nope, didn't get a chance to look at it in person. Just based on pictures and descriptions.

Yep....gotta admit...I was eye balling that one too...

Man...we seem to have similar tastes...It's kinda like we should all hang out together or something...

I don't know who bought it either , but I did notice they sold another one also.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DeToma...5.l2557#ht_751wt_900

I went to the auction today, and the Pantera sold for $48K. So let me give you a little insight in what I saw.
1. The lines to the radiator were connected together, so the radiator was bypassed.
2. The inner panel on the passenger side that would cover the voltage regulator was missing.
3. The headliner was missing.
4. the front window was loose, as in the rubber was around the glass but the whole piece was just sitting in the channel, I could move it in and out on its opening.
The car was going to Texas, yes Gas Monkeys bought it, so it will be interesting to see if it shows up on the show, and if we see him "barn finding" this car :-)

Mike

On Saturday they had their preview.
After about 2 seconds I could see that this Pantera 4524 had WAY over 3,800 miles. There was a 1/16 inch grove cut into the shift lever and the inside part of the shift gate had all the chrome worn off at the second gear position. This was one of many signs that the car had over the stated and advertised 3,800 miles. I called one of the auction attendants to have a look and asked if I could see the documentation they had on the car. He took me to the white trailer and they pulled the file they had on the car. We reviewed the title and the very next paper was a Bill of Sale from 1977 clearly showing the miles on the car at that time being just over 32,000. I asked if I could snap a quick picture of the Bill of Sale then I pointed this out to Vanderbrink Auctions. They said that they would announce a correction at the time of the auction, which they did not.
Vanderbrink had heavily promoted this car as being a 3,800 mile car and in their own file that they had for the car showed it had over 32,000 in 1977.
Their way of correcting the problem, make the Bill of Sale go away.
So here it is for all to see
I thought auctioneers had to meet a standard of ethics to obtain a license.
I will be sending this to Provamo as well as any Pantera registry for documentation on 4524.
Will have to say, car had a nice body and lots of potential, but not 3,800 miles

Wow Jay, surprised the got away with this. Did you end up looking at the Ferrari?

Dennis

Hi Dennis

The Ferrari went for 47K. Like a good boy, I stopped bidding at 38K. The car was a mess and the winning bidder was over the internet. They are going to be very upset when they get that car. For a 78 308GTS that needed full paint and mechanicals, 47K was way more money than it was worth.
I went home with an empty trailer and felt pretty good about it

I think your $38K is more than it is worth even if 3X8's are going up. They can have more issues than that "3800" mile Pantera and cost a whole lot more to fix. I'm sure you know this .. I'm being Captain Obvious again.

you are 100% correct.
The only reason I even went to 38 was I could do the paint myself, and well, I really would have liked to play with the 308 for a while.
I should have probably kept the bidding below 34.
I checked the service records on the Ferrari and it had not had the timing belts done in over 22,000 miles. Again, I would have done it myself but my time is worth money also

quote:

Originally posted by Quickitty:
you are 100% correct.
The only reason I even went to 38 was I could do the paint myself, and well, I really would have liked to play with the 308 for a while.
I should have probably kept the bidding below 34.
I checked the service records on the Ferrari and it had not had the timing belts done in over 22,000 miles. Again, I would have done it myself but my time is worth money also

Thanks for documenting the 'oversight' on the Pantera mileage. The Pantera community needs to be aware of the truth, and the car deserves a proper history as well.

Far as Ferrari 308/328s, I've had a few and they are among the most reliable of all the Fcars, requiring very little upkeep or the common paranoia that plagues some other models. The belt service is 'engine in' no matter what the internet lore says and the electricals are actually reliable too. Ferrari just got it right with those cars.

I'd avoid the 80-82 'i' models, as those - and MANY cars of the era - were still having some teething pains w then-new emissions standards.

Best wishes in your search!

Did the car come with the Mangusta air filter housing shown in the box of parts? If it did, its worth a few thousand $$

No, the Mangusta air filter was not there when the auction started.
I knew they had some value but no idea how much.

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