Pantera # 5357 - Rocky's 1973 L model

WELL DONE!!



John

Thanks for the congratulations, all!

The car is home from Wade's shop, and peacefully resting in my garage.

No incidents on the ~7 mile trip home. The car ran great - Centerforce Clutch was smooth, steady temps, oil pressure good, and the engine sound was consistent.

The tuning of my new "4 Corner Idle" carb (List 4609 Holley, 735 CFM) seems almost dialed in. The car is very well mannered in the low speed driving I have done, even idled right up my steep driveway with no issues.

Lot's more to do, but I am back on the road!

Whoo Hoo!

Rocky

Congratulations Rocky..!!! Exciting times....

Thanks Joe, Rob, John, Garth et. al. -

I appreciate the appreciation and the views...

I took the car to the machine shop that did the engine. The intent was to get a quick assessment of the filter and the oil from the first 10 minutes of the break-in (but mostly to show off the car).

Clean bill of health from the filter inspectors!

Here's a couple of little finish-out projects that were done:

Picture showing the perfect balance in the Overflow Tank (the fluid level in the plastic tank is about 3/4") - very soon the external overflow will be removed, and after a few little squirts, the cooling level has found it's equilibrium.





Here is my spectacularly bent ZF Vent Tube. That Wade - when he does anything, it's first class!



Finally, a quick picture of my "cockpit rubber hose eliminator". By moving the heater valve into the engine bay, and replacing the valve with a standard fitting, appropriate nipples and elbows, my car now uses the minimum amount of hose in the cockpit, and the short piece required is just a straight shot. Much cheaper than buying one of those preformed 90 deg. rubber elbows!

I know, I have a crack in my AC Drain Hose... Luckily for me, I don't have to worry about that for a while!



Rocky

quote:

PSSS> Garth - good to hear you engine is going back in.. Did you do anything other than fix the bent pushrods/rockers?

Hey Rocky,

Congrats on firing up your engine. Can't wait for your driving impressions and more video.

I had to do the following work to mine after suffering a broken valve spring:

• Ported heads, AGAIN - supplier shop did a very poor job
  
• Surfaced the heads to assure a flat surface to mate to the block
  
• Replaced valve springs with new dual springs - so long Beehive springs!
  
• Cleaned up and smoothed the valve witness marks from piston
  
• New 3-angle valve job
  
• New Scorpion roller rockers - replaced under warranty due to contact with purshrods
  
• New rings
  
• Re-honed block due to scuffing on a couple cylinders
  
• Polished crank because some metal bits from the breaking valve spring and subsequent rocker damage washed down into the pan and got picked up by the oil pump
  

I'll hopefully have the engine reassembled by the end of this week, then all that remains is to drop it back in!

Nice job Rocky.
Garth next time I am there I want to see the Runner not just the Stang.

Thanks, guys,,,

Garth, not to make light of a bad situation, but "The Second Time is the Charm"!

At least dropping your newly rebuilt engine into your clean, and freshened up engine bay should go really smoothly. You've had practice, and you should not encounter any surprises, that's what added a bunch of unexpected time to my build:

- Rust in the Upright
- Worn Bushing in the Upright Alignment Shaft
- Rotted Cooling Tanks

Engine Impressions:

I am still working on a off-idle "stumble" that I've been having, so I'm not really at the point to declare victory. I have changed the accelerator pump cam position (a white cam, 19 CC per squirt), but only made the problem worse when I went from Position 2 to Position 1.

Once I get the motor above 1500 RPM or so, it pulls well, I am happy with the performance in lower and mid range. I have not revved it above 3000 rpm yet, I am just taking things slowly.

I do have good vacuum (about 14") / good brakes (one of my key criteria) and a good idle quality - it's not too extreme.

More info to follow, but I have driven it every day, and it seems like we have put everything together right. That's a big relief!

See below for info on the Cam Data.

Rocky

It didn't sink-in until now, but you're driving the car?

OK ... dammit ... this is over-due ... congratulations!

You've done well.

I wanna see it someday.

Thanks, George!

I am sure you will - I look forward to a trip to the West Coast someday.

I wanted to post up my Cam Specs and Flow Data - I will post the theoretical (Dyno2000) HP & Torque.

The Cam came from one of George's recommendation (Sticky #3). I think the sticky that I pulled this recommendation from was modified (I can't find it anymore).

Custom Ground Hydraulic Roller Tappet Camshaft

Camshaft Spec:
Grinder: Bullet Racing Cams of Olive Branch, Mississippi
Telephone (662) 893-5670
Engine: Ford 351 Cleveland, 4V cylinder heads
Hydraulic roller tappet camshaft
----------------------------------
Intake Lobe: #HR275/3533 (CRA)
Intake lobe mathematic centerline = 112° ATDC
Exhaust Lobe: # HR287/353 (CRA)
Exhaust lobe mathematic centerline = 116° BTDC
114° lobe separation angle (camshaft degrees)
---------------------------------
Exhaust valve opening = 79.5° BBDC
Intake valve opening = 25.5° BTDC
53° overlap
Exhaust valve closing = 27.5° ATDC
Intake valve closing = 69.5° ABDC
---------------------------------
275° advertised intake lobe duration
220° intake lobe duration at 0.050"
Intake lobe hydraulic intensity = 55
0.611" theoretical intake valve lift (1.73 rocker ratio)
---------------------------------
287° advertised exhaust lobe duration
230° exhaust lobe duration at 0.050"
Exhaust lobe hydraulic intensity = 57
0.610" theoretical exhaust valve lift (1.73 rocker ratio)
---------------------------------

Here's my Flow Data - measured. My heads were ported by a 351C Master Builder.

Nice....

Detonator -

Thanks - I think your car looks great, and I like the color!

Here's the "THEORETICAL" Engine Performance based on the Cam Specs, and the Head Flow data.... Is it real? Hard for me to say at this point....

I liked the look of the torque curve....

More work this weekend -

Sanding on the decklid - the inside is ready for paint (satin black).



Insulation of the bulkhead cover....



The very cool new "hood support button" - custom machined from Delrin.... This update includes rebrazing of the support rod, and paint of the mounting point.



Finally - a picture of the car in front of the "Calle De Pantera" sign - I put about 125 mi on the car today..



Anyway - Wade spent much of his weekend working on my carburetor. We did a pretty extensive test session with my original 4150 series carb. While we made a big improvement in the "off-idle stumble", performance between 1500 - 3000 RPM was not what was expected.

So as a test program, Wade fabbed up the components (throttle linkage) to connect up his 700 CFM Holley / Braswell carb as a temporary evaluation system. This carb has 4-Corner Idle, and is a Double Pumper (Progressive Mechanical Secondaries).

The car ran great with the new carb. It significantly boosted the mid-range "oomph", yet maintained the reasonable idle operations.

More troubleshoot is needed on my existing carb, but it's really good to experience the potential in my engine.

This week should entail a lot of masking, and a quick couple of coats of paint to the inside of the decklid.

More pix and info to follow.

Rocky

More excitement...

Getting ready to put the decklid on... Got all the hardware painted and ready.

Check this out.... It hasn't been on the car for months...

Had a neat experience... A random car pulled up in front of my house, a kid got out... "Sir, Sir, can I see your car? Is that a Pantera? WOW!"

We had a nice visit, and he also knew of Wade's Brown and Orange Pantera (He told me there was another one in town). He plans to bring his Dad, and join us at the August Pantera Dinner this Sunday.

The kid was pumped up about seeing the car... He even took a video of the engine running.

Just when I was beginning to lose faith in the youth of today....

My car is whole... After 4 months and 5 days....

Great work and congrats!! Time for a party!!

John

congrats!

rock and roll!

To close out this thread -

I took some pictures today up on top of Mount Lemmon in Tucson, AZ (Elevation 7800'). I thought that the pictures turned out great!

Slideshow - Pantera #5357 on Mount Lemmon


(I know, I have to do something about those rear tires!!!)

Rocky

Beautiful! Great to have her back on the road. But you know you can't get safe speed rated rubber for your 10" Campys anymore, but I'm happy to help you out by taking those rear wheels off your hands so you can get some properly sized wheels and tires.

Enjoy!

Great job! I'm getting ready to put Zonkey back together and painting the ZF trans is one of my tasks. It looks like you painted yours. What paint and prep did you do? Any disassembly?

Garth -

I can't find tires for the back wheels AT ALL... Even so, I think I'll hold onto the wheels, maybe I'll turn then into Air Hose reels... Thanks for the offer, though!

Richard -

Thanks for the compliments. Here's what I did on my ZF, but I had my case bead blasted. I also did the safety wire thing (it was a good decision). Scroll down a post or two to see what I did....

5357 ZF Case Treatment.

This is not totally correct.
I think the Michelin TB5 are offered in a matching size and they are rated the right speed as they are W rated, means 270 km/h.
regards
Oliver

Darn it!



In regards to the email you sent stating:
------------------------------------------------

Dear Customer Care,

Please assist with finding a tire that matches my specification:

225/50-15 and 285/50-15 Michelin TB5

These are for a DeTomaso Pantera, '73 with the 10" wide rims in the back (Campagnalo Magnesium Rims)

Thanks,

-----------------------------------------------

We appreciate your request for Michelin tires. Unfortunately, we do not manufacture either size tires for your vehicle. Your request will be forwarded to the appropriate Marketing Group for future consideration.

We appreciate your business and thank you for choosing Michelin.

It is our goal to ensure that your issue has been resolved or your question answered to your satisfaction. If we can assist you further, please respond to this email or call us at 1-866-866-6605 (toll free) between 8:00AM and 8:00PM Eastern Time Monday through Friday or between 8:30AM and 4:30PM Eastern Time on Saturday.

Sincerely,

quote:

Michelin TB5

FWIW, this website shows the TB5 in a 285/50-15 size. Might be worth contacting them to see if they still have a set on the shelves.
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/...b5-tarmac-rally-tyre

And matching fronts are available in 225/50-15.

I think there is a typo on Demon-Tweeks's page and the available size is 285/40-15.

There is also 23/62-15 ( 270/45-15 ) that might be an option.

http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page/michelin-tb5

That's what I said.
They may not have the excact size but they do also have a 295/40 r15 or a 270/45 r15 that may come close.
In any case better then a BF Goodrich 315/50 r15 fit on my car. Ok it makes people smile, but not because it looks good. ;-)

Michelin Classic Tyres

We had a car we restored in Scottsdale that had perfect looking Avon tires on 10 inch rims, look up 5298 in the registry to see how they look in the photos, they are,,,
Rear: 10 x 15 GTS wheels mounted to AVON CR6-zz 295/50R/15 (DOT approved tire) acquired from Roger Krause Racing in California, where I get all my Pantera tires.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

AZF1 - really sharp looking car!

Thanks -

Rocky

You guys and your 15" tires

You may not have heard about the terrible tragedy that "befell" me, when my fluorescent light fixture fell off my garage ceiling and whacked my car!

Some dumb-a$$ (me) only put the screws into the drywall - not the rafters. You can bet they are now anchored with 4" deck screws!

DAMMIT!

I guess I can say I was lucky because:

1) It did not fall right onto the center of my hood

and

2) Neither of the fluorescent bulbs broke!

Nevertheless....

OUCH!



Luckily, I know a great guy who has a body shop (and a Pantera) who could handle the job....

Rick P. - Duval Body and Paint - Green Valley, AZ

Anyway - those boys went after my car....









I just got some crappy cel phone pix, but it looks great....

More pictures to follow...







To Rick, Ricky and the boys at DB&P - THANKS!

Looks great! Now make sure those flourescent lights are secure so this doesn't happen again!

Man...my hearth skip a couple beats when I read the first few words. I had been thinking of you as I see the news about all the rain your way!
the new paint looks great

Chuck....you are very welcome. It was our pleasure.

Well...really sorry to hear. That sucks...but at least you've got a happy ending. She looks great.

This thread needed better pictures, after all the hard work on the car...







Slideshow

Slideshow - Post Body Work (Sept, 2014)

Looks nice! Was the right door previously repainted? It seems a few shades off from the rest.

No - not that I know of - I think (hope?) it's just a trick of the reflection off the bank behind the car... But now I have to look closer!

Rocky

Not too much new to report - I did replace my 100K mile Front Shock / Spring (a set of "Telecars") with a pair of "new to me" low mileage stock Aristons.

This allowed me to take a series of basic suspension measurements, and inspect the effort for my upcoming project - new shocks / springs (all four corners) and new wheels / tires (first priority).

I have a set of all the required suspension parts (rubber bushings, upper & lower ball joints and tie rod ends). Likely when I do this mod I will disassemble the suspension and get it all powdercoated (like the back).

Here's just a single picture.

quote:

This thread needed better pictures, after all the hard work on the car...

Such a great looking car.

Your car looks like a car I came very close to buying on ebay i 2009. I backed out of it though since I was an overseas buyer and could inspect it properly.

Thank You, Push, for the compliment. I agree with you (amazingly enough).

Working on a set of 8" Campi rims to replace the 7" ones in the front.

Toasting in the oven is complete. Stripment of the old paint is complete. Primer is complete. Hope to paint this weekend.

Also working on the rear view mirrors, they will soon match body color.

Wheel Prep - Illustrated

Wheel Toasting, and a Matching Italian Dinner...




Wheel In Zinc Phosphate Primer is Shown Above

Grinding Out Center Ring:



Low VOC (California) Wheel Paint



Authentic Stuff....





On the spinner....





They came out GREAT! Thanks Wade (MarkIV/4280)!

Looks good. But wear a proper mask when painting. Being able to pick ones nose after a paint job and get coloured nose pickings is not a good thing...

The wheels look great!

Rick -

They came out super! Thanks for the those babies!

Can't wait to see your car on the road!

Chuck

Just got these pictures -

What do you think?

I'm seconding Garth's sentiments on yellow cars, espoused here (See Page 2):

1971 Pantera Pre-L #1579 Yellow

Oops - Not Yellow! How's this?

Or this?

Nice!

I like the wheel

quote:

I like the wheel

That's how I tell my car apart from all the other Yellow Panteras in the neighborhood!

Rocky

Getting Ready for MATO.... (Midnight at the Oasis, Yuma).

Note to self... Buy whiskey and cigars.

My car made the Interwebs.....

Pantera Spotted in Tucson.... Exotic Spotter.com

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Charlton:

Thats a very nice website you have Mark, I think you are happy that's on your place still cold outside ,you can spend a lot of time on your webside.(LoL)
Simon

The Next Project - Front Suspension Upgrade

We are working on the next project - an upgrade of my front suspension components. The goal is to replace the old parts, and add a couple additional performance and reliability features along the way.

Main Items:

New Ball Joints and TREs

New Wheel Bearings and Seals

Adjustment of Brake Hose Routing

General Cleanup

Performance / Reliability Features:

Upper Ball Joints Milled for 2* More Caster

W-Wadeco Camber Lock System

Powder Cost Suspension Parts

Zerks on All Ball Joints & TREs

Painting of all Exposed Steel

Here's a picture to get you interested.




Here is a slide show of the work to date. I will add more as the reassembly progresses.

Suspension Upgrade - Slide Show

Rocky

to push out the arm bushings, did you have to saw off the "big end"? A detail photo of your tools would be appreaciated

Well - to give you the honest truth, Wade (MarkIV/4280) handled that part*, but what he did was get a short height Sawz-All Blade, and cut the metal bushing housing top and bottom.

Careful cutting (not all the way through) relieved the pressure, and the bushings were then pressed out. The cut was longitudinal along the bushing housing.

I'll throw in a picture of one of the cut housings.

I believe that I left out a lot of the swearing, re-fixturing, pounding, and hammering that was still required. I saw the rubber pieces, and they did not look like they came out willingly.

Maybe Wade will post up a description of his technique.

Rocky

* as he handles 75-85% of my projects... Nevertheless - I am moving up in my skills qualification. I am now approved to sandblast on my own, and to do minor filing and scraping work. Oh, yes... Painting. I am authorized to do painting (rattle can only) without supervision.



PS> (Seriously....) Thanks, Wade for your help on my project!!

I wanted to show off my cool W-WadeCo Camber Lock System.

Other systems had been evaluated, and are very nicely made, but the main drawback is they require drilling into the Upper A-Arm to mount the "Stop Plate". This could potentially weaken it.

The engineering dept. at W-WadeCo came up with a simple design that uses a welded retaining ring on the upper A-Arm. The special Camber adjustment shim can then be used to lock the camber, as well as perform fine adjustment with the threaded shaft & nuts. As shown in the picture, the system is not tightened, that's why the washer is at an angle.

Lock Brackets



Adjustment Stop (Welded to A-Arm)




Camber Lock Assembly





Bushing

Finally, JFB had a question on getting the bushings out. Here's how Wade did it..... You gotta be careful, though!



Rocky

More reassembly... Getting closer to a reality!

See pictures in the Slideshow (above).

More suspension progress.

Click on the link a couple of posts up. Pictures added to the Slideshow.

Rocky

the work looks great! It should be ready for some serious track laps in TX

question, when you tighten the bolts for the arm bushings, do you have the arms at ride height as not to add the torsional springiness of the rubber twisting?

That's what I did.

I set the car on my original shocks, and then I tightened the bushings.

Rocky.

Still a little work to do yet, but it's coming!

Hi Rocky,
Lookin great man. Very nicely detailed process steps. The camber lock modification is slick. I like it. Royalties should be paid to you or W-WadeCo?

Nice to hear you are getting sign offs accomplished. How soon do you think for the air tools...those are the fun ones..

Hey..what are you using for rotors/pads?

Hey Rob -

quote:

Nice to hear you are getting sign offs accomplished. How soon do you think for the air tools...those are the fun ones..

Getting signed off on air tools is a long, ardouous journey. I have to pass bench grinder certification first.*

I did kind of jump the gun by using my angle grinder to fit the shocks (the Koni 30s "hats" can interfere with the shock brackets at full droop) a little prematurely.

With regard to rotors -

I am using vented 12.xx" (number to be filled in later) mustang rotors.

With regard to brake pads -

Stock calipers with Porterfield R4S (Street Compound).

With regards to rear brakes -

This will drive most everyone who has a dog in the fight nuts, but.....

I am using the 1980's technique of dual, stock rear calipers. Since the rear uprights are "unisex", I just have 2 sets of calipers on each rear wheel. This is a common technique from the past, made obsolete by the relatively low cost Willwood kits available at several suppliers.

I can lock up my rears any time I want, I keep my stock emergency brake configuration, and the price was right.

4x $2.00 Bolts

8x Brake pads

2x $15 Braided steel brake hoses

$100 in rebuild kits for 4x calipers

quote:

The camber lock modification is slick. I like it. Royalties should be paid to you or W-WadeCo?

Royalty checks should be submitted direct to W- WadeCo, care of me.... PM me and Ill send you the address!



Rocky

* Note - I am teasing my friend and mentor (Wade) about all this. I am sure he would be perfectly willing to let me take the next step -when ever I want to grab the MIG welder... have at it! (....but I don't think the results would be what either of us want to show off!)

Got my Front Suspension pretty much buttoned up. You can see the pictures in the slideshow here. Things remaining:

1. Brake Hose Routing
2. Bleed Front Brakes
3. Bed Front Pads (Porterfield R4S)
4. "Home Align"
5. Professional Align (Set Up Car / Set Final Ride Height)

So my project got delayed a bit by a "difficult to install" front passenger rotor. The bearing had run hot at one time, and the spindle was just slightly damaged - it had a little ridge on the outside, and then on the inside it was just a tiny bit undersized.

I struggled with that for a week until I got that one figured out, and understood how to get the inner bearing race set on the spindle. Now it is set, and all is buttoned up.

Enjoy the pictures.

Suspension Upgrade - Final Pix

Thanks again to Wade (MarkIV/4280) for the precision work:

1. Setup of the Bearings in the Rotors
2. Pressing Out / Reinstall Bushings
3. W-WadeCo Camber Lock Kit
4. Caster Modification to Ball Joints
5. Specialty Tools
6. Expert Advice



Rocky

Next Project - High Torque Gear Reduction Starter....

So I had been having some minor "Hot Cranking" issues (it is not unusual to be hot here in Tucson BTW!). So a PMGR Starter would seem to be a good upgrade.

The worst part of working on the starter is access. My first problem was that the studs in the bell housing were too short, and then that I couldn't get them out!

But using a very super duper, and nearly magical tool, a few turns of the ratchet had them out in minutes.

Pretty amazing.

Rocky

When I have more time, I will add more detail on the (COMPLETED) PMGR starter project. I have started my car, and the thing cranks way better than my old Motorcraft starter.

New 2" Studs Installed (actually 52 MM)

Sounds like some good progress Rocky.
Gotta share the details of the very super duper tool in action for us. ;-)

quote:

Originally posted by Rob Borruso:...
Gotta share the details of the very super duper tool in action for us. ;-)

Yea, I don't reconize those pieces.

the work looks great, hope it will be great on the road & track also

I can tell the interest is boiling over... So I will tell all.

I borrowed two tools to attack these recalcitrant studs (remind you of anyone????)

Anyway - the first is a Proto 4515 Stud Remover. This is the tool I used efficatiously.

It is basically a large, heavy rounded deep-well socket-like contraption. It has a 1/2" drive on one end. The offset hole bored in the side accepts a wedge with a very aggressive rasp-like surface.

Judicious application of the wedge, and torque on the drive digs the hardened teeth into the stud. The wedge shape is pulled ever tighter into the stud as torque is applied. Obviously, you want to set it up to apply the torque in the direction you need for the stud to turn.

Rocky

PS> One guess as to who loaned me this awesome tool....

The second tool I had access to is the old "Matco SR-19". This baby has an eccentric knurled wheel on the opposite end of a 1/2" Drive.

It operates basically on the same principle, the drive torque forces the knurled wheel into the stud, locking it into the grip of the tool. Additional twisting force rotates the stud out of the threaded hole (be it the block, bellhousing, etc.).

Rocky

PS> Of course - it was Wade (MarkIV/4280).

"The Right Tool for the Job"

One more - Illustrating the removal technique.

Nice tools to know about, but did you try the old-school two-nut method?

Larry

That was my first approach. Maybe I didn't get my two nuts tight enough, but when I did try that, they both twisted on the shaft (even thought I was torqueing the inner one).

I was never able to really get a good wrench on the inner nut due to the closeness to the block / header / frame rails.

It's tight in there! I was happy to have access to the right tools.

I like the "looks" of the Proto 4515. I had never seen one and from google it looks like if I do, it will be used.

how has the new starter worked?

quote:

How has the new starter worked?

It works good. Good cranking action - my engine is running again. My first drive after the suspension work is this weekend. I guess I forgot to post up more pictures.

Funny (well, not so funny at the time) anecdote about my car....

When I drove to Yuma for MATO (3 Hrs.), I noted a new vibration at speed. I had just replaced my tires, and had the new ones mounted and balanced. This was my first ride on these tires, and I had not messed with my suspension, so I suspected a balance issue.

I took the rear tires and wheels to a different shop. He only had the kind of machine that had to put a spindle through the center of the wheel. We had to get the De Tomaso caps off.

"Oh, I just whack 'em with hammer", the guy said...

"Hell No you don't just 'whack 'em with a hammer'"!!!!

Anyway - we spun up the wheels, and one was off by 1.75 oz., and the other by .5 oz. I think I found my problem.

Don't ever get your wheels mounted and balanced at C***** **********, even of they do have a nice Factory Five Cobra replica on the shop floor!

Anyway - All is well now. The car just got dropped off for alignment after the front suspension rebuild.

Rocky

PS> I think I owe JFB a picture of my PMGR starter install...

Is it possible to connect the red wire to the thik black wire from the starter?
To keep the original starter relais working?
no need for an extra wiring .
Simon

Simon - I tried this (it was my first approach).

Originally, I just ran a jumper from the main power feed to the little solenoid terminal.

It was very quick and easy.

Unfortunately, I found about 50% of the time, my starter would "run on", and keep spinning / remain engaged for 1-2 seconds after the key was released.

"forestg" posted up the solution, which is the same as what is provided (upon request) with the DB starter...

The main feed goes to the INPUT of the bulkhead mounted solenoid (direct to the battery).

The solenoid on the PMGR starter goes to the OUTPUT of the bulkhead mounted solenoid.

Works great, lasts a long time (I hope).

Rocky

Alignment complete to the factory specs.

Ready for our "Fun Rally Shake Down Cruise" (2 March)!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rocky:
Simon - I tried this (it was my first approach).


It was very quick and easy.

Unfortunately, I found about 50% of the time, my starter would "run on", and keep spinning / remain engaged for 1-2 seconds after the key was released.


Thanks , that was also what my starter is doing, I go chance the wiring as you discribed.
regards
Simon

Shakedown Cruise on #5357 - Getting Ready for the Fun Rally! (I'm Driving from Tucson To Houston).

OK - So it was just me that went on the run! That's not my fault! I tried!


So having just completed a series of updates to my car, I wanted to "wring it out" under real-world conditions. The updates were:

* Complete Front Suspension Workover
* 8" Wide Front Tires & Brake Hose Routing
* New Porterfield R4S Front Brake Pads
* Rebalanced Rear Tires / New Rubber
* PMGR Starter

I also had the opportunity to run a Air/Fuel Meter and log some data.

Overall - everything went GREAT. I put about 130 miles on the car, simulating conditions I will encounter. No problems with any of the upgrades, or anything else.

Now to scrape the bugs off, and do the very final prep work before we leave on 13 May.

Here's some pictures from the ride.....

Slideshow from "Shakedown Cruise"

Rocky

Any Armchair tuning analysts (or experts) out there? Any comments on these graphs?

I am struggling a bit with this LogWorks Software (Scaling and Selecting Axis'). Anyway, here's a couple of representative files, with my assessment.

The last set is an acceleration from a rolling start onto the freeway - to about 75 mph. Bottom is time in seconds, and the left axis is A/F Ratio.

Personally, I think my carb adjustment is good based on "seat of the pants" performance, plug inspection, lack of soot on the back of the car, and now this data (I've got a lot more files) but who knows what the experts among us can discern....

Here is a sample of the data I collected - I tried to get both sides of the engine, under similar conditions (but collected a day apart). The Idle & steady cruise are easy to match conditions, but acceleration is more subjective.


Warm Idle - Good Adjustment (might be a little rich at idle). Can be set to > 14.7 under a no-load condition without issue.

I would be fascinated to figure out with the 3 Hz oscillation in the Passenger Side correlates to.




2500 RPM in 4th Gear - Again, I think things are set pretty well. Running close to stoichiometric under a medium RPM, low-load condition.

Note, this carb does not have vacuum advance.





Acceleration (Driver Side was more "intense" than Passenger Side)

I believe things are OK. Upon acceleration, you expect the mixture to richen considerably, due to the Accelerator Pump, and the Power Valve Opening. I think when the ratio the drops down is when I am mashing the gas, and the peaks are as I let off the gas at shift points.




Trying to match up this data is why I need:

a) An RPM Sensor Input $30 (plus cable wiring time)
b) Another O2 Sensor $160


Thanks - Any comments on people's assessments of this data is appreciated.


Rocky

from http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...381053556#2381053556

quote:

Originally posted by JFB #05177:
I aint no ex-spert...but a question and comment.
I think your ranges of A/f show and like you say it feels from the other indicates that you have a great tune.

the rich dip at 12 to 15 seconds, would that be a gear selection where you were below your cam and had a slight WOT bog?

quote:

rich dip at 12 to 15 seconds, would that be a gear selection where you were below

JFB - Thanks for looking at this.

I assume this is accelerator pump & Power Valve action. I would love to have an RPM Sensor with this data as well.

One thing that I just learned is how "dynamic" this data is... if you just read the info, without really plotting this stuff, you just think "oh well, it should be at 14.7, right? It's a no brainer!"

It is interesting to see the trends, and the effects of various condition (Idle, Decel, WOT) on the ratio, but this data really doesn't tell a tuner what to do (yet).


Thanks for the annotation.

as for the RS "3 hz"; counting peaks for the 16 second sample I get 2.1 hertz if that is what you are observing.

are you having to physically remove the O2 sensor from one exhuast and move it to the other?
are the locations about the same distance from muffler.
what is your idle rpm

normally the first thing I do when trying to determine the cause for similair "noiz" is to look very closely at instrumentaion to besure I don't chase something that is not there. that would include knowing how the instrument samples and displays

Not sure if your pump gas is an ethanol mix like we have in MA, this effects the mixture ratio. http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/e...eband-oxygen-sensor/

Thanks, Brian.

JFB - Yes, right now, I have access to a "Two Channel" monitor unit, but only have a single sensor, and a single cable.

So the runs were made on alternate days, attempting to duplicate each other. I have to physically move the sensor from one exhaust to the other.

Idle is easy, maintaining a steady RPM on the same stretch of road is pretty do-able. Matching shift points and gas pedal modulation on an acceleration to 70 MPH is impossible.

I agree, I have to read more, and get more familiar with the characteristics of the instrumentation.

Rocky

Recent Picture....

Had a little minor problem with my motor, and wanted to clean up the bay a little.

So out she comes.

I expect I will be working on the transaxle as well. Getting an occasional "crunch" if I'm not careful when I shift into second gear.

Thanks to Wade (MarkIV/4280) for help on the actual motor pull. We had it out of the car in 45 minutes.

Rocky

So what do you do if you have a major problem????

I guess that's when the "Frame Off" restoration begins!



Rocky

Is the altenator mounted besides the A/C pump?
Simon

Yes it is. The alternator is actually behind the permanent bulkhead when the engine is in the car.

The engine pictures (out of the car) have the alternator removed - to make it easier to get the motor out of the car.

You can see better pictures of the setup here, and on the top of page 7....

Rocky

Scroll to the bottom for the Sanden / Alternator Pix

good idee,
simon

any findings on the engine noise?

Still working on that one....

Engine is at the machine shop, awaiting forensic analysis.

We (MarkIV/4280) began my transaxle refresh efforts. In Wade's words.... "We are now ZF Mechanics!".

Yesterday (09-23-2014) was the initial teardown. Wade is building a fixture today to hold the gear stacks.

Per direction of Lloyd Butfoy (RBT Transmisison), the fixture requires 52mm and 79mm rings, with 80 mm center to center spacing. Pictures of the fabricated fixture are coming soon.

Anyway, Wade and I disassembled the case without problem. the 5th, 4th and 3rd syncro dog teeth look clean and sharp. All looks good at the high level. More details to follow.

Here is a slideshow of the pictures, and a glamour shot.

Initial ZF Teardown and Refurb.




Rocky

So my 351C engine got torn down yesterday,

I spun the #4 rod bearing. The crank journal is toasted, but the rod and piston is OK. The rod end was checked, and it’s still good and circular.

Generally, everything looks like it’s in pretty good shape inside, with the exception of the one rod bearing. Lots more disassembly, flushing and evaluation still needed. I need to find out if I need a new oil pump (that’s a pretty minor expense).

I have a crank that I am bringing over to the shop tomorrow, I’ll hope to get some pictures. Lots of parts on their way….

Everything needs to be disassembled, checked, and the crank machined and balanced.

I still would sure like to know what caused the problem – spinning it over 6200 RPM a couple of times shouldn’t kill a bearing like that…..

Rocky

New (to me) ported heads getting ready for machining. These are D1AE GA heads - with the 66cc chambers.

They will get:

Minor hole drilling for water flow

Hardened valve seats

Valve Guides

Pedestals machined for roller valve train

Painted

I'll post up some flow numbers as soon as I get them.

The motor is slowly coming back together. Bottom end is nearly ready for assembly with new flat top pistons, newly machined crank, hardened race bearings, and all other previously installed oiling mods.