Pantera Electrical Problems

http://www.panteraplace.com/

Start here for simplified electrical diagrams and tech info.

Jon's Pantera Electronics replacement components are Great.

1. Clean ALL fuse contact Blades. Check ALL fuses for continuity. They can 'LOOK' fine but be broken.

2. Under the left 'A' piller. That would be UNDER the dash at the drivers' left knee. WAY WAY Up in the corner; You'll need to lay on your back and use a flashlite to find it! You will find a Stud at the sheetmetal, there are, No less than 12 to 14 wires Grounded at this stud. Most times the connections become rusted, corroded, or the Nut even comes loose. Disassemble and Clean All.

3. Back in the rear engine compartment, on the right side, down behind both Coolant tanks, on the Wire Bundle going to ALL the Rear Tailights, you will find a Connecter Plug-in. This plug can get splahed from the rear tire, becomes corroded and can loose conductivity. Disassemble and clean the contacts with 'Electrical Contact Cleaner'. Personally I Cut off that plug, ran the Wire Cable through the wheelwell, back to the rear lights through an Existing hole, to hide it(for a cleaner looking engine bay); Re-connected all wires (easy as they are different colors, But match their mates from both sides of the Plug) SOLDERED all connections, after putting Shrink Tubing on every wire and especially the wire Bundle/Cable, for moisture resistance (Nothing is Moisture 'Proof'). Then tie the cable, out of the way, to the chassis using 2 'Addel' clamps and Stainless Screws. Yes, I drilled 2 holes in the channel for said screws.

4. Check and Clean the connections at the relays, in the relay box, at drivers' left leg.

5. Check Ignition switch for Burning/Failure and the 'Block Connections' hidden under the Steering Column Covers(Behind the Steering Wheel), that 'White' Plastic Block with Metal Setscrews will be Melted, Stranded Wires Broken and the Connections Loose.

6. Check and Test ALL Light Bulbs, and PROVE to Yourself they Work! You can't tell just by Looking. Clean ALL Light Sockets, with the Contact Cleaner (Desolves Corrosion).

That will get You started,
Good-Luck with it!

* The First thing Every New Buyer of a Pantera Had BETTER Do, Is Purchase the Factory Repair/Maintainace Manual, and get a Wireing Diagram, for the correct Year/Model!! All the Venders sell the Repair Manuals, including the Sponsor of this Forum. And there are many sold on ebay, for a deal. That 'Bible' is the Only Way to really learn about your Kat, because it is heavily illustrated! It will Answer a Lot of Questions for You, IMO. Even if You Do NOT plan to do Your own Work on the Pantera, Read it Cover to Cover and Back Again! You will be surprised at what you learn, And You will know what the Mechanic is Talking about and About What to ask Questions.

Pat, when (not if) you find a wiring schematic, be aware that A- there are four different ones since DeTomaso/Ford did multiple running changes during the production life of the car, and B- NONE of them will perfectly match your car! Color codes changed (sometimes from one end of a wire to another inside your wiring loom!) and routing was altered sometime in mid-'72 so the fuse box & relays shifted. Most of the loom came from Lucas of England so unplated corroded contacts everywhere are the rule.

What most do is try to find the schematic whose published date most closely matches the build date (NOT the registration date) of your car. Then during use of the schematic, we annotate it to match the reality in the car. A good quality VOM and patience are your two most valuable resources in this area!

All the above applies to an unmolested stock wiring loom; as with the rest of the car, owner mods & additions to the electrics abound, some more skillfully done than others. Some 90% of inop electrics will be caused by bad grounds or (especially under the dash) wires plugged into the wrong terminals.

...I left out.
7. On Most Pantera Models, the Ignition Switch Must be in the 'Run' Position for any of the Lights to Operate. Simple but it Happens, owners Test the Lights and forget to turn ON the Ignition.

8. As far as the Dash Lighting...Under the Dash Just Over Your Left Knee, there is a Dimmer Reostat, if this is Turned DOWN You won't have any dash lights. It has a Little Black Plastic Knob, It is found on the Lower Lip, UNDER the Dash. Some Models May Not have it.
Also, the Center Dash, just in front of the Shifter, has 'Over the Dash' Lighting, This also has a dimmer, and That Knob is Located on the Front Dash, Just Above the 'Center Console', Black Knob.

When I got my car, none of those things worked either.

I cleaned all the fuses and the fuse board and contacts behind the kick-panel on the passenger side and got all my electrical back.

In the 3 or 4 hours of driving i've done on my car, I've actually had to go back and spin a couple fuses because they corrode quickly.

The eraser on a short pencil does a nice job of cleaning the fuses and their sockets.

Try to find and use euro fuses with the copper colored conductors.

Pat B; I empathize with what you are going through! Each earlier post is right on the money! About the only thing I can add to what has been said is don't stop at the wire ends when connectors look "OK", or when continuity appears "OK" from connector to connector. The ground wiring in the Pantera is notorious for looping grounds from one relay or connection to the next and making its way back to the ground gang plug, as previously mentioned. Just make sure that when checking continuity, you are getting a good ground from each connector or relay back to ground. I found instances in which the ground overheated, becoming inoperable and created a short in an adjoining wire. Unfortunately, you will also encounter wires to be encased in very rigid plastic sheathing which was once very pliable.

You guys hit this one right on the head! I had that little nut come loose on the stud as Marlin mentioned in #2 of his post. That caused a bunch of lighting and other electrical gremlins. Once I removed the connections, cleaned them all and made sure everything was tight, I had a different car.

To fix fuse corrosion once and for all, there are two choices. First is to swap the fuse block for one that uses newer fuses with plated ends. THere are several bolt-in assemblies available and all work; installation of some are easier than others.

The second- if you're into authenticity- is to go through the OEM fuse block(s) with a cheap JC Whitney brush-electroplating rig and PLATE each fuse holder with gold or silver. The stock copper fuse holders plate almost instantly, once acid-cleaned. I did this 20 yrs ago and have had zero trouble since.

I bought a tube of dielectric grease and coated all the connectors, and all the fuse ends when re-installing the fuses.

It helped, but my dash and gauges have gone dead twice in the 4 hours of driving pleasure I've had on my new car, and a simple spin of all the fuses fixed it right up.

My fuse panel has a variety of fuse types as well, and one thing I've noticed is either they are different lengths, or the fuse tabs need to be bent in to give more pressure in holding the fuses in place. Some were barely held in place.

I simply carefully bent the tabs in a bit to make the fuse fit tighter.

And while we're talking fuse blocks and electrical gremlins, one thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is to install a "relay kit," if your car doesn't already have one. This is usually installed in the front trunk and takes the load off of all the switches in the dash. I've heard tales of headlight switches melting on a long night drive!

Mike's car has relays. Roger was an electrical worker for PG&E for 40 yrs and built his own. He built a few more as kits- I have one- and they're different than the commercial assemblies available elsewhere. So he should be covered on that.

Re: fuses. I was able to find the glass ones with pointed, plated ends that replace the OEM ceramic fuses. Buss makes them but they are not readily available. GBC series. The Internet is your friend for searching. I got these on www.globalautoparts.biz (in Stockton, CA). Probably not as good as upgrading to a new setup but certainly cheaper and easier.

quote:

Buss makes them but they are not readily available. GBC series.

Last I knew, those glass with shiny pointed ends were discontinued some years ago.

Current Buss fuses are the foil strip style.

I imagine you got lucky finding a supplier with a bunch of old stock.

Larry

What would you recommend instead of dielectric grease?

My fuse panel showed some corrosion, and nothing worked (taillights, brake lights, blinkers, gauges) so I took a toothbrush and cleaned the contacts and fuses, and then put a thin (very thin) coating of dielectric grease over it all. I was thinking it would inhibit corrosion.

After going through the fuse panel, I got everything to work again, so I'm happy, but if I've coated everything with the wrong type of grease or metal protector, I'd like to know what the correct thing to apply would be.

quote:

Originally posted by Marlin Jack:
...DIE-Electric Grease is an INSULATOR!! You probably did more Harm that good.

Yes! I installed Relays, when I did My Custom wiring. About Half a Dozen in the front compartment. Especially One on the Ignition...A 'Push-Button' Start. The Key Switch was Eliminated a Long Time Ago. Now the controls are Hidden, Secret.
The Only Circuit NOT On a Circuit Breaker is the Headlights, For Obvious Reasons! And the Headlights Are ran through a Relay.

To Pat, the OP, if the fuse box and its connectors is the source of the trouble ...

Pantera Parts Connection of Reno Nevada modifies the OEM fuse box to utilize blade style ATO/ATC fuses. Fuse problems are therefore resolved forever. There are other alternatives, but this is minimally invasive to the original design, and very easy to install. I'm not saying other alternatives are difficult to install, but re-installing a modified OEM fuse box is easier to accomplish than any other alternative.

Of course instead of fuse connections, grounds or wiring connections could be the problem as well.

When I first got my car in 1985, it had rubber bands over the metal tabs in the fuse panel. The former owner pointed at the fuse panel and said "don't touch that!"

The problem with rubber bands is they dry out and snap. Then it's back to bad contact and in many cases the fuses falling out on the floor when you hit a little bump in the road.

Since then, there have been a couple of alternatives developed to the original fuse panel.

One is the Tinneman fuse panel which I believe is a modified Nissan PU truck panel that now uses the current spade fuses. Was that "Bob Tinneman"?

The other is the Pantera-Electronics unit.

The P-E is more modern and engineered for the car. It's not a modification of a panel from another vehicle like the Tinneman is. It doesn't use relays either like the Tinneman does.


Both have gotten good reviews. I switched to the P-E unit and do recommend it to anyone who is interested in dealing with this issue.

You don't need fuses falling out on you in the middle of the night on a dark road. That I can speak from experience on.

quote:

"Bob Tinneman"

That would be Bob Timma

quote:

Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:

quote:

"Bob Tinneman"

That would be Bob Timma

Ahh! OK. Got it now. It's been a while with that fuse panel. I don't even know if he still does them?

A 3rd possibility is the upgrade fuse panel sold by Larry Stock's Pantera Parts Connection in Carson City, NV. It is a rework of an original fuse panel including the second small 2-fuse panel for the windows. Both panels use modern blade fuses and is plug and play since it bolts in using OEM screws in the stock position. 6 or so years ago, Larry & I installed one into one of his customer cars; it took us rookies 30 minutes to swap over one wire at a time and at the end, everything worked first try! Quite a few of these stock-appearing systems out there now, with zero problems.

quote:

Originally posted by Bosswrench:
A 3rd possibility is the upgrade fuse panel sold by Larry Stock's Pantera Parts Connection in Carson City, NV. It is a rework of an original fuse panel including the second small 2-fuse panel for the windows. Both panels use modern blade fuses and is plug and play since it bolts in using OEM screws in the stock position. 6 or so years ago, Larry & I installed one into one of his customer cars; it took us rookies 30 minutes to swap over one wire at a time and at the end, everything worked first try! Quite a few of these stock-appearing systems out there now, with zero problems.

Do you have a picture of one?

I thought I'd mentioned the success I've had with Ox-Gard Anti-Oxidant Compound. I found it at Home Depot about 10 years ago when I had finished restoring my car and the fuses started acting up.
http://www.amazon.com/Gardner-...mpound/dp/B000BODU66
At least for me, the fuses that were the biggest problem were the ones I'd put on relays. I'm not sure why. Anyway, after I'd cleaned them all with contact cleaner and scotch bright (as suggested above) and then applied the Ox-Gard I haven't had any problems. Ox-Gard was developed to prevent aluminum wired houses from burning down! Turns out the ALU would oxidize, resistance would build, wire joints would heat up and houses burned.

I wondered about the comments above about dielectric grease. Looking around a bit I found this article:
http://www.w8ji.com/dielectric...onductive_grease.htm Turns out do not insulate metal to metal contacts:

"One incorrect logic is the "dielectric" in "dielectric grease" means the grease should only be used to insulate. All greases work by the low viscosity allowing the grease to completely push out of areas with metal-to-metal contact. Dielectric grease is just better at holding off high voltages over long paths."

And they help prevent oxides and corrosion from forming.

But, there may be something better. A good friend is a high-end audio kind of guy who lived near the ocean and had some magic stuff to fix his contact problems. Looks like CAIG DeOxIT (in its various forms) is what is used now for all kinds of contact problems. http://www.caig.com available on Amazon and elsewhere. Looks like this is http://www.amazon.com/Booster-...ricant/dp/B0002BBVN2 should do the trick for almost any electrical contact problem.