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A few years ago I installed (on my '73 L) one of the brake upgrade kits that utilizes Corvette rotors and calipers and uses a line lock for the parking brake since the factory park brake components don't fit. Initially all was fine, but the line lock has lost effectiveness over time so that I don't think it will pass the state safety check. Also, the local garages (Massachusetts) now sit in the car and apply the parking brake themselves to be sure you are not "faking it" when told to apply it. My question is: does someone sell a bracket kit to re-install the factory park brake, or is there another DOT approved device I can use in place of the line lock? Thank you!

Last edited by George P
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A Line-lock is simply a valve that holds line pressure applied to your brakes. It is a parking brake developed for fork-lifts, NOT a legal emergency brake. A legal e-brake is a redundent, completely separate system (e.g- a cable) of operating at least the rear brakes in the event of a total hydraulic failure. To my knowlege, no one actually offeres a "kit" for legal e-brakes on a Pantera with thick rotors, but Corvette or Z-28 Camaro calipers have the capability built-in for cable actuation. Dunno how difficult it might be to adapt your stock cable to the GM calipers. I think Hall's 'Super-Stopper kit' use these calipers. Years ago, I added Wilwood cable-operated calipers to my Pantera so as to have legal e-brakes with ventillated rotors. These go-kart calipers require a custom bracket, and were the subject of a couple of articles in the POCA newsletter, with photos.

PE Controller3621900F-2E4A-4EE7-81D6-71A799E4318E

There’s another option: Pantera Electronics Tesla/Brembo electronic parking brake calipers. You’d think the calipers were expensive but you can buy a pair on eBay for about $150 or less. Most of the calipers are aluminum but later versions are composite. This allows you to eliminate the OEM parking brake handle, bracket, cables, etc. and leave more room for aftermarket seats. Pantera Electronics manufactures the switch/controller and has the parts you need to install the calipers; connectors, cable, etc. 

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  • 3621900F-2E4A-4EE7-81D6-71A799E4318E: Tesla/Brembo Caliper
  • PE Controller: Pantera Electronics Controller
Last edited by davidnunn

The Wilwood mechanical caliper (go-kart spot brake) shown is what I adapted in 1998 to our Pantera with altered rear brakes. I made a pair of adapter brackets and cable-directors; the same caliper with a different bracket is what Pantera East sold for Panteras and Vipers for quite a while. IPSCO now sells something similar. Mine works fine with stock brake cables, except there is no anti-rattle spring so with the windows down, you can hear the little pads and backing plates moving around. No worries after 20 yrs of driving. Wilwood also makes an invisible e-brake that is of the early Corvette 2-shoe design built inside the rotor hat sections.

Tesla Caliper - as everyone may or may not know, the reason that Tesla calipers are so cheap on eBay (you can find them between $66 a pair, and $150 a pair) is most likely because they came off the 2016 models when they were 53,000 vehicles recalled for parking brake issues.

The cheaper pairs of calipers have the connector housings broken, on the more expensive ones, the connector housings are intact.

How do you find out if the calipers have the plastic gear that may prevent them from being retracted?

Can they be repaired or updated so that this would not be an issue on a retrofit?

I know this Tesla thing is a pretty new modification to our cars, but I’d be pretty irritated if I spent $700 on all the components and mounted it up, and then found an issue with the calipers.

Thanks -

Rocky

 

Rocky, all of the Tesla Model S PB calipers I've seen on eBay have been taken from wrecked Tesla's. There seems to be a lot of them! The calipers that were exchanged under warranty were supposed to have been destroyed by the servicing dealer. Imagine the liability risk a dealer would suffer if they were taking those "exchanged under recall" calipers and selling them on eBay! That being said, only 5% of them were defective, so if some found their way onto eBay, chances are they're OK. I agree with you; the challenge, buying them on eBay is, receiving undamaged units. The electrical connector is extremely vulnerable and even if it is intact before shipping, if the packaging isn't great, the calipers will be delivered with broken connectors. 

I bought a pair of the later composite PB calipers on eBay for $75 each and they look like brand new units. They came with pads too! I went this route for one simple reason; it allowed me to eliminate the e-brake handle and move my Recaro passenger seat a few inches closer to the console. 

Yes....

In America, it is (supposed to be) “Everything is allowed except that which is forbidden”, vs. “Everything is forbidden except that which is allowed”.

 

There are very few states anymore that have safety inspections, and I’m not aware of any that force the car to be 100% stock, although they do make you do that for emissions testing....

 

 

@rocky posted:

Yes....

In America, it is (supposed to be) “Everything is allowed except that which is forbidden”, vs. “Everything is forbidden except that which is allowed”.

I see.

I thought it might be some sort of safety issue to use a third party controller, your DIY wiring between controller and calipers and operate them with a $0.50 rocker switch...

After all, you live in the promised land of lawsuits...

 

-Sami

 

Maybe that’s why we have so many lawsuits...

But if you are going to make that argument, than any of the other parking brake offerings would be similarly bad....

This is a PARKING brake, after all.

And if it holds, there’s no reason for a lawsuit.  But if your 50 year old stock brake fails on Lombard St. in San Francisco, you are probably in just as much trouble....

FB42C552-1925-4457-A699-79EEAEF8418D

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Last edited by rocky

A quick update on the Tesla Brake install I am currently doing for 6997. The calipers are all in and fit well with no real clearance issues. The original calipers are flipped to the front and sway sides to keep the bleeder up. Slightly longer brake lines are required. The Pantera Electronics  controller works well and the EPB units set and reset well . And there is no way they are moving once they are set ! The box fits nicely under the center console. I think this is a good option if you are sick of the lousy manual park brakes letting go on you.

Now where to mount that pesky push button .......?





10EM069410EM0696

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  • Extra Brembo Caliper
  • PE EPB Controller

Percy, one possible trouble spot. The placement of that black box under the center armrest: one guy put such a box at that point, and when he also velcro-ed a CB radio on top of the armrest and keyed the transmitter, the box shut off from induced voltage! And since it was an intermittent failure (only happened when the transmitter was keyed), it took weeks to find it.... I don't know whats in your black box nor if you use CB radios, but it can happen if things line up just right.

Thanks Bosswrench. Great observation of a situation that would absolutely drive you mental trying to find it !

Just one comment on the install is to go with the optional cable and plug pack supplied by PE but ask Jon to provide some extra pins for the plugs just in case . I stuffed up the pins in the plug assembly to the Brembos initially and had to redo them and they have to be absolutely perfect. I could not get those plugs here so was waiting while Jon sent me extra pins. Also you might request another 3m of cable over the standard loom run offered . That would give you enough length to get to the front firewall next to the covered area in front of the brake cylinder. The box could then be easily mounted there away from spilt coffee and CB radios. That would have been my ideal but I just could not make the distance. That would be a better spot with shorter runs for access to the fuse panel power and the push button mounting . Next time I would also get a four pin male/female plug supplied at the get go to make the disconnect on the push button easier.

I have also installed the PE cooling controller relay with the separate 35 A resettable breaker which feeds directly off the battery . This had freed up fuse 11 for the original Fan  relay circuit so I was able to repurpose that fuse for a 20A dedicated run for the Brembos. You will need a 20A protected circuit for this.

Just a couple of things to think about if you consider doing it.

I have a couple of 5w handheld units that I use car to car which I find ideal. There is already  enough gizmos cluttering up every nook and cranny!

The motor drive on the Tesla electric caliper fouls the shock spring when you try to mount it in the front position . The mount extension  for the manual Emergency brake cable on the original caliper clears the spring so the whole thing is fully reversible - no caliper trimming required. With the two sets of ears already on the Pantera mounting case it is a very simple change.

The Tesla electric caliper is not modulating - its either full on or off. I know some work is being done to see if it can be operated as a modulating caliper but no word on that as yet. Even if that was possible , the entire brake arrangement for the car would have to be modified, both front and back, to make this work as the primary caliper. I wouldn't do it.

As it is this is, it is  a relatively simple , fully reversible modification that delivers outstanding emergency brake service .  And it gets rid of the inside handbrake lever. 

Hope this helps ?

The Tesla caliper is just a parking brake. Some OEMs have an EPB built into hydraulic calipers but I'm not aware of anyone retrofitting them to a Pantera. Physically adapting them is simple; it's the controller/electronics that's the hard part. Lucky for us, Pantera Electronics has a controller for the Tesla EPBs.

When you apply the Tesla EPB, it doesn't just "grab" the rotor, it applies itself progressively; over 2 or 3 seconds. There's a Hall Effect sensor built into the motor that controls the speed the caliper closes on the rotor.

Last edited by davidnunn
@Percy posted:

The motor drive on the Tesla electric caliper fouls the shock spring when you try to mount it in the front position . The mount extension  for the manual Emergency brake cable on the original caliper clears the spring so the whole thing is fully reversible - no caliper trimming required. With the two sets of ears already on the Pantera mounting case it is a very simple change.

The Tesla electric caliper is not modulating - its either full on or off. I know some work is being done to see if it can be operated as a modulating caliper but no word on that as yet. Even if that was possible , the entire brake arrangement for the car would have to be modified, both front and back, to make this work as the primary caliper. I wouldn't do it.

As it is this is, it is  a relatively simple , fully reversible modification that delivers outstanding emergency brake service .  And it gets rid of the inside handbrake lever.

Hope this helps ?

There are other hydraulic rear calipers with electronic parking brakes. Surface areas of the pads (a comparison for braking amount applied) are similar in some cases.

Why does it have to be the Tesla?

How does the Tesla caliper work as a rear caliper on a Tesla IF it only operates as Parking Brake, i.e., on and off?



The way that some modifications that become suddenly popular then overnight become yesterdays news when a better modification comes up is my concern here.

The idea of eliminating the interior hand brake assembly I like but the thought of just an electric on/off activating switch with no safety on it is concerning, or maybe more accurately stated, a consideration?

How do you protect from a disastrous situation of accidentally applying the parking brake while driving?



I asked "Professor Haas" this and he hasn't responded as of yet? He's still on his time trip in his "Delorean" and is trying to get back to the future.

Last edited by panteradoug

Doug, the Tesla Model S has two rear calipers; a hydraulic brake caliper and an electric parking brake caliper. They are both made by Brembo. The EPB is simply an electric version of Brembo’s manual parking brake that’s used on many different cars, including the Viper, Lamborghini, Ferrari, etc. The Brembo EPB is also used on different cars but removed from a wrecked Tesla, it is cheap and readily available. Removed from a wrecked Lamborghini Aventador, it still costs a fortune.
BTW, the Tesla version is designed for a 1-1/8” wide rotor.  

You can avoid the EPB being applied at speed by not pressing the button! Duh 🙄! It would be easy for Jon to modify his controller to use a VSS input but I can’t imagine there’d be any demand.

Last edited by davidnunn

I'm learning here about the Tesla application but as I do I'm also considering how my particular installation could/would/will be.

The location in the cabin of the switch is not a moot point. That COULD be a disaster waiting to happen.



A VSS connection is the only way I can conceive of a safety on the switch at this moment also.



Do you remember "Car 54, where are you"? Toody and Mouldoon. "OOO, OOO!"

I need to get over that impulse and work this out further.



I get the part about the "used, wrecked Tesla" source being "affordable" so far. I'm just wondering about other alternatives BUT I already have an idea where to put the switch and a safety would be HIGHLY desirable.

As it turns out, I already have a new VSS that I sourced for a "stilborn" EFI project that I never did. I settled on the dirty, dirty, highly anti-social Weber 48ida's. Me bad BUT I GOT a new VSS out of it.

Hey Jon? What ya' doin' today?

There are two control options with the PE controller. One is the push button option, the other is a switch using the original handbrake unit itself. If the concern is the switch may be pushed , go for the handbrake option. It will look identical to what is standard  and unless the grandson has a predisposition to high speed handbrake turns, will present exactly the same risk as what you currently have.

I believe you have to specifically request  the controller for the hand brake option ? Ask PE to confirm. The board seems to take both types of inputs so I am not sure what the difference is other than the switch.

Well I'm glad that you came to that conclusion about me David and pointed out the obvious. I suppose, someone feels entitled to do that here and it must serve some sort of positive purpose?

I do thank everyone for sharing the information that they have. It is helpful.

The only thing that I can conclude at this point is that I don't care for the options available and at this time it just isn't something for me.

Maybe things will change at some point?

Part of the problem here is the indiscriminate use of "Emergency Brake" and "Parking Brake" which are two separate functions. The USDOT specified emergency brakes as being able to stop a passenger vehicle within a specified distance without locking the wheels and/or losing control. They require a totally separate linkage from the main brakes.  To my knowledge, parking brakes are only used on skip-loaders and fork-lifts without Fed specs and do NOT substitute for emergency brakes.

@bosswrench posted:

Part of the problem here is the indiscriminate use of "Emergency Brake" and "Parking Brake" which are two separate functions. The USDOT specified emergency brakes as being able to stop a passenger vehicle within a specified distance without locking the wheels and/or losing control. They require a totally separate linkage from the main brakes.  To my knowledge, parking brakes are only used on skip-loaders and fork-lifts without Fed specs and do NOT substitute for emergency brakes.

I was thinking the same thing. So is the Tesla an emergency brake or a parking brake?

How do you use an electric brake in an emergency?  Ordinarily wouldn't the cpu take charge and brake the car gradually without locking up the rear brakes? All the driver can do is push the engage button?

@davidnunn posted:

The Tesla's EPB is a parking brake only. It will not operate until the vehicle is stopped. Most new cars use EPB's that operate exactly the same way. Even Porsche's been using EPB's since the 2012 model year.

Are you refering to it's function on a Tesla that uses a cpu or on a Pantera with Pantera-Electronics "brake controller" device?

In private discussions with P-E I am told that the brake is either on or off and the device is just an adapter for the Pantera.

So if what BW is saying is correct, by installing it and eliminating the original factory emergency brake, probably in most US states, the car is no longer in safety compliance since you no longer have an emergency brake?

Doug, Tesla's do not have emergency brakes but they are not unusual in this regard. Most cars are now using EPB's and no longer have emergency brakes. I'm sure the manufacturers (and perhaps even D.O.T.) would argue that emergency brakes and manually actuated parking brakes cause more accidents than they prevent. A manual parking brake requires some expertise to be used as an emergency brake. If the operator applies too much rear brake, a loss of directional control is the likely result. Also, the chances of a simultaneous failure of the front and rear brake hydraulic circuits is probably nil.

I'm sure most jurisdictions have regulations that make removing or modifying any safety device illegal; however, many modifications we make to our Panteras violate such regulations. Aftermarket seat belts, steering wheels, fiberglass bumpers, brake master cylinders, proportioning valves or even Wilwood brake kits likely violate these regulations, as would the removal of the OEM pressure reducing valve in the front brake circuit.

Last edited by davidnunn

FWIW:  

The blue owner's manual for my '71 Pantera references "HAND BRAKE".  There is no mention or reference to an emergency brake.

I don't know when the term "EMERGENCY BRAKE"" was changed to HAND BRAKE", but I have Ford shop manuals as far back as 1965 that ONLY reference a "HAND BRAKE".  The two (other) owner's manuals (2002 and 2016) that I have call it a "PARKING BRAKE".  The 2016 Fusion that we have has an EPB and the symbol on the activation switch has a "P" in its center.  None of these Ford or Pantera manuals state anything about using the "HAND BRAKE" or "PARKING BRAKE" in an emergency situation.

John

Last edited by jb1490
@davidnunn posted:

Doug, Tesla's do not have emergency brakes but they are not unusual in this regard. Most cars are now using EPB's and no longer have emergency brakes. I'm sure the manufacturers (and perhaps even D.O.T.) would argue that emergency brakes and manually actuated parking brakes cause more accidents than they prevent. A manual parking brake requires some expertise to be used as an emergency brake. If the operator applies too much rear brake, a loss of directional control is the likely result. Also, the chances of a simultaneous failure of the front and rear brake hydraulic circuits is probably nil.

I'm sure most jurisdictions have regulations that make removing or modifying any safety device illegal; however, many modifications we make to our Panteras violate such regulations. Aftermarket seat belts, steering wheels, fiberglass bumpers, brake master cylinders, proportioning valves or even Wilwood brake kits likely violate these regulations, as would the removal of the OEM pressure reducing valve in the front brake circuit.

I have no argument with you on the logic of your above statement.

I have an EPB on my Fusion. It works as the Tesla would and in addition is tied to a hill holding feature and Park assist. How the park assist feature works, I'm not sure but often when starting to move from a parked stop on a hill, The brake release is sharp and causes a jolt.

This new newfangled electronic gizmos stuff is new to me.

NY State Safety inspections on the Pantera are always a "trip" since no inspector that I know of knows WTF he's looking at anyway.

For instance, I have an oxygen sensor plumbed into one of the header collectors of the 180s and I put it on a 90 degree fitting for better clearance.

Don't you know the inspector says "you just failed, that's illegal"? I had to explain to him what it was for and the car was not subject to emissions regulations involving exhausts. It's kind of a PITA as well also since they get pissed it's only a $12.50 sticker.

I have learned to remove the oxygen sensor entirely before the inspection and put a plug in it. For $12,50, they don't want to argue whether or not the car should have an air pump for the exhausts....usually.

Last edited by panteradoug

It’s interesting that the Tesla option has gotten this much discussion on “philosophy” rather than implementation.

I picked up a set of Tesla calipers, and am interested in them because of the weight reduction over the stock calipers (which I still use as a hand/parking brake) with my SACC Wilwood rear brake upgrade.

Pricing on the EPB (Tesla) controller is just high enough that I can’t justify the price to fix something that isn’t broke for something (weight reduction) that I’m not sure I would notice in most of my driving.

But someone’s gotta pay for the engineering & development costs…. I’m sure P-E did a study of development cost, vs. payback, vs. user base to determine their retail price.

I know I don’t have the skill to reverse engineer the Tesla controller (even though I have one, and the schematic).

But one day, if I’m feeling flush, I’ll probably pull the trigger on the controller, wiring harness kit, and mounting adapters…  Time will tell.

I am certain it will hold the car in place, and it will take about 2 pounds of unsprung weight off each rear wheel.

Rocky

Last edited by rocky
@rocky posted:

It’s interesting that the Tesla option has gotten this much discussion on “philosophy” rather than implementation.

I picked up a set of Tesla calipers, and am interested in them because of the weight reduction over the stock calipers (which I still use as a hand/parking brake) with my SACC Wilwood rear brake upgrade.

Pricing on the EPB (Tesla) controller is just high enough that I can’t justify the price to fix something that isn’t broke for something (weight reduction) that I’m not sure I would notice in most of my driving.

But someone’s gotta pay for the engineering & development costs…. I’m sure P-E did a study of development cost, vs. payback, vs. user base to determine their retail price.

I know I don’t have the skill to reverse engineer the Tesla controller (even though I have one, and the schematic).

But one day, if I’m feeling flush, I’ll probably pull the trigger on the controller, wiring harness kit, and mounting adapters…  Time will tell.

I am certain it will hold the car in place, and it will take about 2 pounds of unsparing weight off each rear wheel.

Rocky

How are you taking weight off? The stock rear caliper stays and you are adding the Tesla. That's an increase in unsprung weight.

Why attempt to reverse engineer it. Jon has already done that.

I need to ask him if 1) it's true that the Tesla CPU applies the brake gradually 2) if he designed that into his adapter/controller.

I'll ask when the time comes.  I already have his irritation level in the high 90's.



Right at the moment, there is discussion about the right switch. His is three wires. My set up can only accommodate one wire.

His led also is two colors. Red for on. Green for off. I only need to know when it's on. What is this, NASA?

Doug, did you read Rocky’s message?  He has Wilwood calipers and only uses the stock caliper as a parking brake. The Tesla caliper weighs much less than the OEM caliper and it works brilliantly.

The speed with which the motor turns is set internally. Unless I'm mistaken, Jon's controller does not alter the speed. The reason a controller is even required, is to control how tightly the caliper squeezes the rotor. If you just used a switch, such as a power window switch, you'd create both mechanical and electrical problems that ultimately would cause an early failure of components. That's what the Tesla controller does and that's what Jon's controller does too but that's not all it does. Figuring out how the Tesla controller works and then designing a controller that improves on it was not a trivial undertaking! 

Last edited by davidnunn

URG! I did but obviously misunderstood. Sorry.

Getting posts forwarded as messages on my phone has it's limitations.

I'm sure that part of it was a subliminal reaction that the  BIG Tesla EPB couldn't possibly be lighter then the little rear Pantera caliper?

Plus I feel like my head is underwater and besieged with all this rain from this "tropical storm" we are currently enjoying. It HAS to be at 100% at the moment and I just don't do particularly well with that scenario.

What David said.

The 4 wires to the Tesla caliper are (most likely) two wires for power - which have one polarity to go in and have to reverse polarity to go out, and two wires for either a digital communication, or direct sensing of the Hall sensor.

I think the Hall sensor senses caliper POSITION, not rate, but I am sure that it definitely doesn’t sense if the ghost of Gary is in the area…

Why try and reengineer it, you ask?

Because 1) the Tesla controller was cheap, and 2) I think it’s (the PE controller is) more than I want to spend…. but I’ve given up on the reengineering plan…. I’m not as smart as Jon.

Rocky

Last edited by rocky

When I was upgrading my brakes with the help from Ken Green and Ike Burrid, I was considering put the Brembo E brake from a Dodge Viper but would have had to have an adapter made.  I believe this was part of Ken’s upgrade if you went with the full Saco upgrade.  Before I went with the Ipsco e brake I was doing some research on this and spoke with a gentleman who did Brembo brake upgrades on Lotuses.  He told me that the E brakes on the Vipers wouldn’t stop the car that quickly.  He pointed out that given the amount of surface provided by e brake pads was not enough to stop the mass of the car.  During the conversation I told him about the Brembo upgrade that Ken and Ike came up with using the Porsche 996TT calipers which was of interest to him, but I digress.  Hope this helps.

Jimmy, here's a pic of the Brembo (Viper - Gen 3 and 4) mechanical parking brake. I've seen them brand new for around $280 each. If you try to buy them through a Lamborghini or Ferrari dealer, they want more than that for just the pads!!! The Tesla EPB is very similar but it has an electric motor on the inner side instead of a piston and mechanical actuators.

Brembo Mechanical Parking Brake Caliper

Doug, the Tesla EPB will accommodate a rotor up to 1-1/8" thick. Above that, you either have to file the pads down or make a spacer to go between the two halves of the caliper. Jon's adapter bracket fits the OE rear rotor diameter. Above that, you'd either have to modify Jon's brackets or make your own.   

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  • Brembo Mechanical Parking Brake Caliper

Hi Dave, does the Tesla brake and Viper use the same mounting bracket.  I ended up going with the Ipsco calipers as I previously mentioned because I didn’t know anyone had made an adapter bracket for the Brembo calipers except for Ken and that is if you changed the uprights to the one Ed and Ken developed.  Ed and Ken’s set up looked nice but i  wanted to keep my OEM uprights.  If I had known that I would probably have went with the Brembo set up.  You can purchase the used Viper, Ferrari 360/430, Lamborghini Murcielago calipers on eBay or partrequest.  I am not sure about the latter two fitting but they look pretty close if not identical to the Vipers.

It seems that these brake set ups would function more as a parking brake than providing any significant stopping force in  an emergency situation.  I think the Brembo calipers look more substantial than the Ipsco and Wilwood calipers.

At the same time I had also looked at the electronic e brake which came on VW’s, which were also Brembo’s if I remember correctly.  That was the first time I had seen this system.  I liked it but wasn’t sure what it was going to take to get it working on our cars.

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Last edited by jimmym

Jimmy,

I wouldn't be surprised if the mount spacing is the same for both the Viper and Tesla parking brake calipers but I have no way of knowing for sure. The photo of the car with the Brembo mechanical parking brake isn't my Pantera. In fact, I don't think it's even a Pantera!

The reason I like the Brembo mechanical parking brake calipers is, they allow for the best cable routing. My first experiment with aftermarket parking brake calipers was a StopTech / Audi S4 unit. They worked great but I wasn't crazy about the cable routing. Notice the outboard mounted brake hat/rotor.



rear brakes - small

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  • rear brakes - small
Last edited by davidnunn
@rocky posted:

What David said.

The 4 wires to the Tesla caliper are (most likely) two wires for power - which have one polarity to go in and have to reverse polarity to go out, and two wires for either a digital communication, or direct sensing of the Hall sensor.

I think the Hall sensor senses caliper POSITION, not rate, but I am sure that it definitely doesn’t sense if the ghost of Gary is in the area…

Why try and reengineer it, you ask?

Because 1) the Tesla controller was cheap, and 2) I think it’s (the PE controller is) more than I want to spend…. but I’ve given up on the reengineering plan…. I’m not as smart as Jon.

Rocky

Read Jon's testing instructions. You can easily burn out the electronics on the caliper if you hot wire the thing wrong.

Personally I think for 250, let him do the work. Titania wants some new earrings.

If you want something reliable and that works, PE is THE place to go. I trust him completely on the equipment. On the color choices for LED's and the "Close Encounters of the third kind" flashing strobe lights, that's another thing altogether but no one is perfect.

As a matter of fact, I think those little aliens help him with the designs since some of them just aren't human and sometimes he's entirely too stubborn.

Last edited by panteradoug

I need a good picture of how the Pantera caliper fits on the Tesla modification and all I can find is the pictures of the Tesla mounted.

Does anyone have a good picture of that?

Also, I'm not convinced of the distance between centerlines mounting points on Jon's adapter plates is optimum.

He's a little sensitive on things like this questioning his designs. (He gets cranky...but so do I and don't want to argue with him on this) To those who have tried both, what was the decision, in numbers, to get the best full pad contact? Not just "use Jon's adapter, or David's", etc)

Last edited by panteradoug

No, but nice picture.

I figured it out myself. My installation is done. Thank you though.

I went with matching grey to the EPB.



What I was looking for was the center line to center line on the EPB adapter. I was having issues with the thickness of the adapter and where it located the brake pads in relationship to the edge of the original Pantera rotor.

I can only speculate why in some issues but it may be that what is being offered as an adapter was done using the 65 Mustang rotor and not the original Pantera rotor.

The Mustang rotor varies from the Pantera rotor in both thickness and outside diameter. The Pantera rotor is thinner and larger in diameter. That effects how the adapter is dimensioned as well.

No problem now though. I found that I needed a 1-1/2" center to center and a 3/8" thick adapter.



As far as relocating the Pantera rear caliper to the front, for my car, it isn't a simple bolt on.

The thickness of the mounting tabs in the front vary from the rear.

On the right upright, the tabs were machined 1/8" thinner and on the left, 1/16" thinner.

My reaction to that was because the left and right varied on the front tabs, I thought that those were "mis-machined" initially from the supplier and because they didn't want to throw them away, the mis-machined tabs were just located where they were never intended to be used by the factory to begin with.

I didn't like the proximity of the "outboard" mounting brackets for the original mechanical handbrakes when the calipers were mounted in the forward position.

I wanted to see what everyone else had done with that. There are amazingly little photos of that detail, as well as no mentioning of the tab thickness variation OR the variation of the adapter using different rotors, so that's where my installation needed to be re-engineered.

My solution was spacer/shims, to center the Pantera calipers correctly varying from left side to right side, and removing the "outboards" entirely.



That's why I asked for a photo but even Pantera-Electronics couldn't supply those.

Hey. It was a fun project and the kind of thing I like to do anyway, so no complaints from me.

There are LOTS of places on this car where sometimes even the slightest variation from stock involves considerable fabrication AND "you should be careful so you shouldn't get killed".

Last edited by panteradoug

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