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racing camshaft recommendations?

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George PGeorge PAdmin.
Here's a spec for a custom ground cam from Bullet Cams. Its a tidy little cam with a wide flat torque curve to complement the 4V heads and road racing. With a good exhaust system it should make good use of the Holley intake manifolds top end capability while still retaining some low rpm torque for accelerating out of corners.

Camshaft Spec:
Grinder: Bullet Racing Cams of Olive Branch, Mississippi
Telephone (662) 893-5670
Engine: Ford 351 Cleveland, 4V cylinder heads
Solid flat tappet camshaft
----------------------------------
Intake Lobe: #FF280/371 (CRA, designed for Ford 0.875 tappets)
Intake lobe mathematic centerline = 110° ATDC
Exhaust Lobe: #F292/373 (CRA)
Exhaust lobe mathematic centerline = 114° BTDC
112° lobe separation angle (camshaft degrees)
---------------------------------
Exhaust valve opening = 80° BBDC
Intake valve opening = 30° BTDC
62° overlap
Exhaust valve closing = 32° ATDC
Intake valve closing = 70° ABDC
---------------------------------
280° advertised intake lobe duration
251° intake lobe duration at 0.050"
Intake lobe major intensity = 86
0.620" net intake valve lift (1.73 rocker ratio, 0.022” lash)
---------------------------------
292° advertised exhaust lobe duration
263° exhaust lobe duration at 0.050"
Exhaust lobe major intensity = 94
0.630" net exhaust valve lift (1.73 rocker ratio, 0.019” lash)
---------------------------------

Request to have the custom ground flat tappet cam nitrided (surface hardened) and polished for the best possible durability.

-G
panteradougpanteradougMember
It depends on what you want the nature of the car to be.

Although mine is a street car I find this one nice for what I want. I would say that if you needed to drive the car to work and the grocery store daily (if you eat a lot) it is too much.

No worse then a motorcycle though.

It is border line for the Webers, but Webers are borderline lifestyle anyway?

It could be a very nice track cam. Numbers are all around where they should be to maximize the heads, exhaust and induction.

Camshafts are very personal and everyone will have their own opinion.

I like it, but I use the car differently then most.



http://www.compcams.com/Compan...s.aspx?csid=861&sb=2

http://www.compcams.com/Base/M...ytes/CompCams292.mp3

If you walk within 20 feet of the exhaust it will knock your cap off of your head because of the exhaust pulse.

The only other car that ever did that to me was one of the Shelby American, former, GT40 team cars.



Some will say that it is "one step over the line" but if you aren't living on or near the edge you aren't maximizing your life. I've been over the line for most of mine.

As Paul Simon once observed, "when something goes wrong, I'm the first to admit it, the first to admit it BUT the last one to know,

When something goes right, it's apt to confuse me, because it's such an unusual sight?"

Your mileage may vary. Cool
panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by "72 GTS:
Doug,
thanks for the advice (to George too !)
That's a good american engine sound !
here's what I have right now (new in box).

http://www.compperformancegrou...egory_Code=F351MFTCM

I was told something like 400HP with a good carburator and exhaust ...

what do you think ?

It will not be a street car, I need power from 3000 to 6500.

kind regards
Philippe


That's just about what you will get with that cam. Maybe 425hp with it going pretty flat at 6,500 but still will go to 7,000.

These engines are VERY capable of making 500 dependable hp AND safely run to about 7,400 to 7,500 rpm.


Frankly, with what you are telling me, what you were advised to pick is not enough cam for the track at all. It will have a lot of bottom end in first gear but will run out of rpm's too quickly and seem like it's short.

I would go with what I have (and I did). It is going to be just about right. It revs easily into the mid 7,000 with power.

I have mine idling at 650rpm. At that rpm it does sound like a speedboat burbling through the water exhaust. Big Grin I'm sorry. I tend to be a counter culture personality?
Go figure? Big Grin


Incidentally. With solid lifters, you adjust the valve lash with the engine off and cold. If you don't know how to do that, PM me. I'll give you the how to instructions. It is not difficult to do and you can do it in about 4 hours if you are not a novice. Wink
G 72gts 2Member
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
quote:
Originally posted by "72 GTS:
Doug,

That's a good american engine sound !

kind regards
Philippe


It's a sound Ferrari hates with a passion. It's so...so...American? Big Grin


I have no religion when it's about engines ! Wink

I'm a kind of specialist with Porsche (old) 911 engines, I guess that I will have that engine to run well ... I'll ask you if I need, and thank you for that
Philippe
dave2811dave2811Member
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
quote:
Originally posted by Dave2811:
Here is CompCams online Camquest program. You can fiddle with all kinds of parameters to determine what is right for you.

http://www.camquest.com/


You can only do it once per registration. You need to keep registering.


Might cookie thing. I can change multiple parameters over and over again. Anyway, they also provide a download option so you can run it offline.

http://www.compcams.com/downloads/register.asp

I have their 270HR. 110* LCA, 215@.050. Streetable, grocery getter and still will get ya over 400 HP. I like the roller option. More aggressive ramp and will not wipe out a lobe if you bungle the break in or starve oil.
I ilyesMember
quote:
Originally posted by George P:
Here's a spec for a custom ground cam from Bullet Cams. Its a tidy little cam with a wide flat torque curve to complement the 4V heads and road racing. With a good exhaust system it should make good use of the Holley intake manifolds top end capability while still retaining some low rpm torque for accelerating out of corners.

Camshaft Spec:
Grinder: Bullet Racing Cams of Olive Branch, Mississippi
Telephone (662) 893-5670
Engine: Ford 351 Cleveland, 4V cylinder heads
Solid flat tappet camshaft
----------------------------------
Intake Lobe: #FF280/371 (CRA, designed for Ford 0.875 tappets)
Intake lobe mathematic centerline = 110° ATDC
Exhaust Lobe: #F292/373 (CRA)
Exhaust lobe mathematic centerline = 114° BTDC
112° lobe separation angle (camshaft degrees)
---------------------------------
Exhaust valve opening = 80° BBDC
Intake valve opening = 30° BTDC
62° overlap
Exhaust valve closing = 32° ATDC
Intake valve closing = 70° ABDC
---------------------------------
280° advertised intake lobe duration
251° intake lobe duration at 0.050"
Intake lobe major intensity = 86
0.620" net intake valve lift (1.73 rocker ratio, 0.022” lash)
---------------------------------
292° advertised exhaust lobe duration
263° exhaust lobe duration at 0.050"
Exhaust lobe major intensity = 94
0.630" net exhaust valve lift (1.73 rocker ratio, 0.019” lash)
---------------------------------

Request to have the custom ground flat tappet cam nitrided (surface hardened) and polished for the best possible durability.

-G


Would you run longer valves or stock length should be ok? If I were to run beehive spring for that cam, and need to achieve 1,900 of assembled height, would stock vavles be long enough?

Thanks for the wealth of information you posted on this board.
R 1Rocketship (Guest)
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
It depends on what you want the nature of the car to be.

Although mine is a street car I find this one nice for what I want. I would say that if you needed to drive the car to work and the grocery store daily (if you eat a lot) it is too much.

No worse then a motorcycle though.

It is border line for the Webers, but Webers are borderline lifestyle anyway?

It could be a very nice track cam. Numbers are all around where they should be to maximize the heads, exhaust and induction.

Camshafts are very personal and everyone will have their own opinion.

I like it, but I use the car differently then most.



http://www.compcams.com/Compan...s.aspx?csid=861&sb=2

http://www.compcams.com/Base/M...ytes/CompCams292.mp3

If you walk within 20 feet of the exhaust it will knock your cap off of your head because of the exhaust pulse.

The only other car that ever did that to me was one of the Shelby American, former, GT40 team cars.



Some will say that it is "one step over the line" but if you aren't living on or near the edge you aren't maximizing your life. I've been over the line for most of mine.

As Paul Simon once observed, "when something goes wrong, I'm the first to admit it, the first to admit it BUT the last one to know,

When something goes right, it's apt to confuse me, because it's such an unusual sight?"

Your mileage may vary. Cool
Hello Doug; Appreciate you supplying the specs & real LIFE driving experience/characteristics of the cam you are using.
Seems to check ALL the boxes I'm looking for.
The specs list it as a 6,500 rpm cam.
In your experience you have no problem revving to 7,500 rpms, am I correct in this statement?
Also, Is that cam available in a solid roller lifter application?...Thanks!...Mark
panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by 1Rocketship:
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
It depends on what you want the nature of the car to be.

Although mine is a street car I find this one nice for what I want. I would say that if you needed to drive the car to work and the grocery store daily (if you eat a lot) it is too much.

No worse then a motorcycle though.

It is border line for the Webers, but Webers are borderline lifestyle anyway?

It could be a very nice track cam. Numbers are all around where they should be to maximize the heads, exhaust and induction.

Camshafts are very personal and everyone will have their own opinion.

I like it, but I use the car differently then most.



http://www.compcams.com/Compan...s.aspx?csid=861&sb=2

http://www.compcams.com/Base/M...ytes/CompCams292.mp3

If you walk within 20 feet of the exhaust it will knock your cap off of your head because of the exhaust pulse.

The only other car that ever did that to me was one of the Shelby American, former, GT40 team cars.



Some will say that it is "one step over the line" but if you aren't living on or near the edge you aren't maximizing your life. I've been over the line for most of mine.

As Paul Simon once observed, "when something goes wrong, I'm the first to admit it, the first to admit it BUT the last one to know,

When something goes right, it's apt to confuse me, because it's such an unusual sight?"

Your mileage may vary. Cool
Hello Doug; Appreciate you supplying the specs & real LIFE driving experience/characteristics of the cam you are using.
Seems to check ALL the boxes I'm looking for.
The specs list it as a 6,500 rpm cam.
In your experience you have no problem revving to 7,500 rpms, am I correct in this statement?
Also, Is that cam available in a solid roller lifter application?...Thanks!...Mark


Check the Compcams webpage. Solid rollers are really intended as a race cam. Sure you can run them on the street but the valvetrain is complicated and overly involved for what a street car needs. Even for a sometimes track car.

If you want roller lifters, go with a hydraulic roller lifter cam.

The 294 cam I have has power into the low 7's but I'm not really your typical owner. The 282 solid is much more likely to be up your alley. It will go into the 7's too but that really is all in the valve springs.

GP made some pretty nice recommendations on hydraulic cams for the vast majority of usesers here.

I personally just prefer a solid lifter camshaft. I find them EASIER to deal with than a hydraulic using anit-pump up lifters, triple springs that needlessly wear the valvetrain, etc.

I have nothing against roller valve trains per se other than the more involved, the more parts can fail.

Most people would be very happy with driving what is essentially a hydraulic lifter Boss 351 everyday. Too many people are just getting sucked into the "romance" of running roller lifters, etc. They are building an engine that has capabilities that they likely will never use at all.

You need to match your components. First pick the heads. Then match your induction, cam, and exhaust to compliment them.

The fact of the matter is the vast majority would be perfectly happy with the power of a 10:1 2v engine configuration with a set of quiet exhausts.
George PGeorge PAdmin.
quote:

Originally posted by ilyes:

Would you run longer valves or stock length should be ok? If I were to run beehive spring for that cam, and need to achieve 1,900 of assembled height, would stock vavles be long enough?



The stock spring height is 1.82" If the springs you choose require a different mounting height (beehive springs) then that additional height must be achieved one of 3 ways.

(1) off-set valve spring retainer locks
(2) machining the valve spring seats
(3) longer valves

Installing longer valves raises the tip of the valve 0.100", so although they accommodate taller springs longer valves also impact rocker arm geometry. This approach is OK as long as the rocker arm geometry is corrected.
Last edited by George P
panteradougpanteradougMember
All these cams will work with 180 headers but what George said about cam centerlines comes more into effect with them. They provide the almost zero back pressure that something like a 108 centerline cam needs.

Caution should prevail on picking that kind of a cam though. It really will tend to give the engine much more of a race engine list of characteristics rather than a street engine.

Probably 110 is as tight as you should go even with them.

I will say that even in a group of Ferrari's, Lamborghini's and the like at an Italian car day event, the sound of mine will stop everyone from what they were BS'ing about and it's entrance does not go unnoticed.

It does have to do with the sound of a Detroit v-8 in a group of dual everything Italian exotics though. It's really what como se dici, the Commadore hated about Americans. They are just so, so...working class.

He never did get over being beat 1-2-3 by "an irrigation pump engine" (427 Ford at LeMans in '66). I guess I just fit right into that scenario?

He would hate me for having my uggly station wagon engine "dressed up" with nice Italian carburatore I would guess. The sound is just so, so, offensive. Big Grin

On the other hand, Alejandro might just love it? Wink
Last edited by panteradoug

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