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Rear Window

C comp2Member
The more I work to get this car going the more I think I want to make the rear window removable to work on the engine occasionally. I am thinking of making a frame with screws which hold the window in the same way the sandblaster windows are held in.

In doing so I will have holes in the window. What is recommended for the rear window other then glass? Plexiglas?

What thickness?
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markcharltonmarkcharltonOld enough to know better and still young enough not to care. My '71 Pantera
3/16 will likely be plenty thick enough. Lexan is a trade name for a brand of polycarbonate plastic. Call local plastics suppliers or sign shops as it's not that hard to come by. Be warned that it scratches quite a bit more easily than acrylic does but it is of course MUCH more impact resistant (hence the "bullet-proof glass" moniker). Good luck,

Mark
accobraaccobraMember
If memory serves me ... most Auto Racing and DOT rules permit .. 1/8 for side & rear windows on a front wheel drive car and 1/4 for a windshield.
I would use the Brand name LEXAN because there are different resin blends that have different qualities, uv protection, scratch resistance, Fire and Chemical Resistance, flexibility, etc.

On the Pantera with the Engine in the rear and I would consider using the 1/4" Lexan * Margard* MR5 FR - Fire Rated.

Ron
bosswrenchbosswrenchMember
If you're going to track the car with a particular organization, check THEIR rules first. A big-block Pantera from Sweden came over to Bonneville a few years ago with a plastic rear window and the organizers made them change it before it was allowed to run. Since it was out of the question to find a glass shop in Wendover, they were allowed to use sheet-metal as an alternative! Our rear window is part of the firewall and race officials are sensitive to fires and plastic. The fact that Pantera glass rear windows usually break early in engine fires apparently meant nothing to Tech.
C comp2Member
quote:
Originally posted by # 1755:
My memory is going. I checked it when I got home and it is only 3/16". It was about $ 20.00 for a pice big enough to do both wing windows (2'X2') and it was off the shelf on a sunday. I cut it with a cut-off wheel on a 4 1/2" grinder and then fine tuned it with a sanding disk. Very workable.


I can laser cut some templates but I cannot laser cut the Lexan. It will be easy for me to test fit it with scrap cut metal then send the file to get it waterjet by people we work with or...

considering things Ron said, I may send the file to someone who does race windows to get the correct stuff.

I had talked about getting it cut from glass but if I do it in lexan there is less likely hood I would break it. I am sure in the beginning of getting bugs out I can see having the window out here and there. When the dust settles and I am happy with my design and the functioning of the car I can have it made out of glass latter if I desire.
panteradougpanteradougMember
There is an extensive product offering for plastics. I am very sure there is an "alloy" that is used for "firewalls".

You will probably need to display a sticker that indicates it is heat and fire retardant/resistant and the spec # on it.

I don't have that listing to offer you a link to it.

A race car fabrication shop most likely will have some right there ready to cut for you.

I would not expect it to be an economy item though.

It really is space age stuff.

The original glass window if it is acceptable to the race sanctioning bodies would be my first choice.

If you like to fabricate, just make a bolt on frame for the glass.

A lot of the glass can be drilled to pass bolts through if the roll cage is the issue here. Not sure if the Pantera glass is drill-able without destroying it though.

The aging of the glass is a factor on it also for that.

You probably would just be looking at a nice thick piece of some kind of a "rubber" pad between the glass and the steel plates?

If you are not coming in the cabin with the any part of the cage, why not just put the bar in the engine compartment built so it kicks down, and bolt it to the roof there?
C comp2Member
I am looking to make a frame for it to bolt through and hold it in. I don't expect that to be a problem but like many things the fist time something is not always as you like it. I may opt for cheaper Lexan till I see how it goes. Having a cad file to work form to make it repeatable so I can make changes is no problem either.

The cage already runs through the window so It will be constructed around that as well with rubber.
bosswrenchbosswrenchMember
For owners that DON'T track their cars much, plexiglas has been used for decades without problems. I know of one street GT-5 in Nor-Cal with a cage with roll bars going thru it, that has used plexiglas since the mid-'70s. It even passed CA visuals for smog tests at one time!

But when all this work is done, I doubt if a removeable window will help engine maintenance. There just isn't that much you can reach through the opening. A quick-release upholstery bubble conversion, slotting the seat-back straps so the seatbacks fold down, removing both rear quarter window glasses, and one of Johnny Woods maintenance platforms that sits on the ZF is all that's necessary for routine maintenance. Beyond that, the engine comes out.
C comp2Member
quote:
But when all this work is done, I doubt if a removeable window will help engine maintenance. There just isn't that much you can reach through the opening. A quick-release upholstery bubble conversion,


Not on this car. There is nothing traditional about the way this car is configured. Maybe some things would have been better configured different but without a removable window it would be next to impossible to fill the cooling system, change the fuel regulator behind the tank on the passenger side, bolt on the roll bar through the back.

Having a removable window would make all of this a non issue. I am making a removable bubble to fit my clearance issues separate from the rest of the firewall.

I know I could relocate the regulator but a removable window makes all that...and more....easy.

accobraaccobraMember
Gary

I think its a great idea access thru the rear window ... its just as easy to do it right and get the correct product. Who wants to do it twice ... when you go for an inspection and run in to an issue. In NY State in the past few years Dept Of Transportation has Spot Checks on the roads ... who needs their car impounded ? I know recently they have also revoked Inspection Stations Licenses because of flawed inspections.

Ron
C comp2Member
Ron, we don't have inspections to work with however, the guys we work with who will waterjet the Lexan can also do safety glass. My thought was to do Lexan for now and when the bugs are worked out at a latter date, I can always swap to safety glass.

I know since I have changed so much things will need more attention latter till I get the bugs sorted out.

PD, I like the idea of taking out the 1/4 vents but I have some tough bolts on those; especially the passenger side with the gas tank. I have one nut/bolt which requires 2 people and a magnet to get started.
panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by comp2:
Ron, we don't have inspections to work with however, the guys we work with who will waterjet the Lexan can also do safety glass. My thought was to do Lexan for now and when the bugs are worked out at a latter date, I can always swap to safety glass.

I know since I have changed so much things will need more attention latter till I get the bugs sorted out.

PD, I like the idea of taking out the 1/4 vents but I have some tough bolts on those; especially the passenger side with the gas tank. I have one nut/bolt which requires 2 people and a magnet to get started.


The glass is just held in on the gaskets. Get the gaskets started and a little umph will pull the glass out with the gaskets as an assembly.


Ron brings up a great point of caution for me on NYS curbside inspections.

I just had a local cop in here on an unrelated matter and he was oogling over the cars.

The deck on the Pantera was open and he looked at the engine and said in a stern voice, "this is all illegal".

Now I think he was mostly talking about the headers because obviously there are no cats but I pointed out this is a '73 IMPORT model and was exempt from the Federal mandate of requiring them.

The point of concern is that the state troopers here are largely numb nuts and would as much take my word for that as the US taking the word that Russia will not invade the Ukraine.

They are not motor vehicle enthusiasts and seem more intent at taking cars off of the road so the roads can be turned into eagle nest sanctuaries?

Google Bald Eagles in NY and you will see what I am talking about.

As a matter of fact I just saw a bicyclist in traffic court for not yielding at a flashing yellow light. I was wondering if the red marks on his wrists were because of the handcuffs?

That would mean one thing, impounding the car until the details are worked out.

That's really a concern and something to think about. It's a good point for concern.

What's the expression from the movie Jaws? "Just when you thought it was safe to go back to the water".

I guess NYS is jealous that California DMV has more BS than they do and want to catch up.

NEVER put NYS out of the picture for developing new angles on the BS. They will totally surprise you and never disappoint?
C comp2Member
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
quote:
Originally posted by comp2:
Ron, we don't have inspections to work with however, the guys we work with who will waterjet the Lexan can also do safety glass. My thought was to do Lexan for now and when the bugs are worked out at a latter date, I can always swap to safety glass.

I know since I have changed so much things will need more attention latter till I get the bugs sorted out.

PD, I like the idea of taking out the 1/4 vents but I have some tough bolts on those; especially the passenger side with the gas tank. I have one nut/bolt which requires 2 people and a magnet to get started.


The glass is just held in on the gaskets. Get the gaskets started and a little umph will pull the glass out with the gaskets as an assembly.


Ron brings up a great point of caution for me on NYS curbside inspections.

I just had a local cop in here on an unrelated matter and he was oogling over the cars.

The deck on the Pantera was open and he looked at the engine and said in a stern voice, "this is all illegal".

Now I think he was mostly talking about the headers because obviously there are no cats but I pointed out this is a '73 IMPORT model and was exempt from the Federal mandate of requiring them.

The point of concern is that the state troopers here are largely numb nuts and would as much take my word for that as the US taking the word that Russia will not invade the Ukraine.

They are not motor vehicle enthusiasts and seem more intent at taking cars off of the road so the roads can be turned into eagle nest sanctuaries?

Google Bald Eagles in NY and you will see what I am talking about.

As a matter of fact I just saw a bicyclist in traffic court for not yielding at a flashing yellow light. I was wondering if the red marks on his wrists were because of the handcuffs?

That would mean one thing, impounding the car until the details are worked out.

That's really a concern and something to think about. It's a good point for concern.

What's the expression from the movie Jaws? "Just when you thought it was safe to go back to the water".

I guess NYS is jealous that California DMV has more BS than they do and want to catch up.

NEVER put NYS out of the picture for developing new angles on the BS. They will totally surprise you and never disappoint?


I have to agree with you. Freedoms in this country are at an all time low and the letter of the law has little to do with enforcement.
panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by comp2:
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
quote:
Originally posted by comp2:
Ron, we don't have inspections to work with however, the guys we work with who will waterjet the Lexan can also do safety glass. My thought was to do Lexan for now and when the bugs are worked out at a latter date, I can always swap to safety glass.

I know since I have changed so much things will need more attention latter till I get the bugs sorted out.

PD, I like the idea of taking out the 1/4 vents but I have some tough bolts on those; especially the passenger side with the gas tank. I have one nut/bolt which requires 2 people and a magnet to get started.


The glass is just held in on the gaskets. Get the gaskets started and a little umph will pull the glass out with the gaskets as an assembly.


Ron brings up a great point of caution for me on NYS curbside inspections.

I just had a local cop in here on an unrelated matter and he was oogling over the cars.

The deck on the Pantera was open and he looked at the engine and said in a stern voice, "this is all illegal".

Now I think he was mostly talking about the headers because obviously there are no cats but I pointed out this is a '73 IMPORT model and was exempt from the Federal mandate of requiring them.

The point of concern is that the state troopers here are largely numb nuts and would as much take my word for that as the US taking the word that Russia will not invade the Ukraine.

They are not motor vehicle enthusiasts and seem more intent at taking cars off of the road so the roads can be turned into eagle nest sanctuaries?

Google Bald Eagles in NY and you will see what I am talking about.

As a matter of fact I just saw a bicyclist in traffic court for not yielding at a flashing yellow light. I was wondering if the red marks on his wrists were because of the handcuffs?

That would mean one thing, impounding the car until the details are worked out.

That's really a concern and something to think about. It's a good point for concern.

What's the expression from the movie Jaws? "Just when you thought it was safe to go back to the water".

I guess NYS is jealous that California DMV has more BS than they do and want to catch up.

NEVER put NYS out of the picture for developing new angles on the BS. They will totally surprise you and never disappoint?


I have to agree with you. Freedoms in this country are at an all time low and the letter of the law has little to do with enforcement.


Scary and true. In the case of the Pantera, they would have no idea what they are looking at.

If they are going to impound the car and disassemble it to check of DOT numbers they won't stop until they find something even if it is imaginary.

There are situations in which we are approaching a Police state, yes.

There are those who would justify that by saying we are all safer as a result.

They don't make me feel safer, just more vulnerable to their abuses.
accobraaccobraMember
Gents,

Two recent events ...

1. One of my workers was stopped at a DOT stop near our shop where they diverted all cars and truck thru WALMART Parking lot, our truck the gave us 9 tickets, 2 were for reflectors they said didnt light up ... they have no bulbs behind them, 1 unsecure load .. we had nothing in the bed, 1 bulb was out and a few reflector tapes were missing.
2. I had a local officer passing by stop ... he seen my garage open and pulled in and started small talk with my about each car x 5 ... i told him all are titled to me ... except one which i just bought ... he told me i should register it just to get it titled in my name ...

... with that i can say in my prior 47 years I have never seen this much activity towards DOT and DMV issues.

Ron
italforditalfordMember
Dear NY brothers, I have noticed many times a TV commercial inviting California businesses to relocate to NY. It states that NY has created tax free zones and is therefore very business friendly. LMAO I didn't believe it when I saw it and I definitely don't believe it now. LMAO

As bad as CA is the cops here are not what you guys describe in NY. I have never had a problem with my classic cars. The only way you will have problems here is if you are driving like an idiot then all bets are off. What is funny is many of the cops are gear heads too.
panteradougpanteradougMember
The road blocks tend to be truck orientated rather than for passenger vehicles.
Even so, they tend to be isolated incidents and some are predictable along known truck routes.
The car incidents are predictable like the time I saw a couple of troopers pulling over a "General Lee" replica complete with the 16 year old driver climbing out of the drivers window because the doors were welded shut. Roll Eyes
rockyrockyMember
quote:
........the 16 year old driver climbing out of the drivers window because the doors were welded shut. Roll Eyes


You know what... We need kids like that. Most of the kids I drive by (at the bus stop) are googling, and never even look up as I blast past.

Who's to say we all didn't do stupid stuff when we were 16 that would make us all Roll Eyes ....

But now we are all smarter, and drive great cars. Only time can cure inexperience.

Plus I'll bet (hope?) there was a Daisy Duke lookalike in the passenger seat!

Rocky
panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by Rocky:
quote:
........the 16 year old driver climbing out of the drivers window because the doors were welded shut. Roll Eyes


You know what... We need kids like that. Most of the kids I drive by (at the bus stop) are googling, and never even look up as I blast past.

Who's to say we all didn't do stupid stuff when we were 16 that would make us all Roll Eyes ....

But now we are all smarter, and drive great cars. Only time can cure inexperience.

Plus I'll bet (hope?) there was a Daisy Duke lookalike in the passenger seat!

Rocky


No Daisy Duke. Nope.

This was one of those people who go shooting past you and you say to yourself, "that guy is going to loose his license, where are the cops when you need them?"

Did you ever stop to figure he drives that way all the time and he already lost his license, or maybe never had one?

The only one who came close to this as entertainment was the guy pulling a sail boat on a trailer up the Hutchinson River Parkway and got it jammed under the underpass because the masts were 20 feet taller that the overpass. Right at North Street.

Ron probably knows the spot too?

Not to claim I'm perfect but I do remember a NYS Trooper having a group of cars pulled over to the side of the road on the south side of the exit on Rt87 south.

He pointed and waived at me. Well you know that was my exit so I just waived back and took the exit.

That's the first time I ever saw a Trooper throw his hat on the ground and kick it.

I think he might have been a little pissed? Wink
accobraaccobraMember
... I spent 3 hours in DMV last friday and 1 digit was off on the ins id card and they sent me home pissed off.

Doug I know the pkwys in Westchester very well ... My Brother did the impounds for the trucks that hit the bridges ... the best was the Carvel Truck that ripped the roof off ... we had ice cream for a week.

Ron
panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by accobra:
... I spent 3 hours in DMV last friday and 1 digit was off on the ins id card and they sent me home pissed off.

Doug I know the pkwys in Westchester very well ... My Brother did the impounds for the trucks that hit the bridges ... the best was the Carvel Truck that ripped the roof off ... we had ice cream for a week.

Ron


Big Grin
plt-1plt-1Member
quote:
are googling, and never even look up as I blast past.


Both my wife and I constantly amazed and disappointed when we go by a bus stop and the young guys don't even look up !.. I just can't accept that when I go by there in a blower car, whining away at 3000 RPM the kids don't even look !... Kids/people are much, much different today...

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