Start of a long story... #3125

Welcome!

Only 72 had "pre-L" models. In 72 they went from chrome bumperettes to the 5-mph rubber bumpers (among other changes) during this model year. The "new" model was designated the L (Lusso - Luxury) model. So, in 72 there was an "L" model and a "pre-L" model. Every car after that was an "L" model. Only the very early '71 models had pushbuttons. There are multiple sites that may help out.

This is one site with information: http://www.panteraplace.com/

Is your car really chassis #3125 and its a 74?  Something is not right.  Please check your chassis number on top of the pedal pocket behind the brake booster.  the numbers should be stamped there.  What are the last 4 digits?

As I understand it there are some 72's that has the older dual pod dash and L bumpers.  What I am confused about is my car is #3165 and its definitely a Pre-L version with a dual pod dash.

Interesting, I look VIN

the number 3125 is good, and I see it was build 04/72 but sold 01/74. Why ? I don’t know...

The first L was around 4260 or so.

So yours is a Pre-L.  It’s definitely not a push button.

Not sure why it has an L front bumper, But some people converted their cars because they wanted them to look like the later vehicles.

Good luck with the rebuild!  It looks like most of the parts are there! Those are pretty interesting wheels!

Rocky

I am with Rocky on this one 3125 should be a pre-L but definitely not a push-button car.  I think you should undo the L bumpers IMO

Bonjour Full-nours

Je ne suis pas bon non plus en anglais mais heureusement il y a Google translate!

Dans quelle région es-tu, j'habite moi-même en Corrèze et je restaure 4406 depuis 3 ans et demi avec presque un an d'interruption pour cause de déménagement. 4406 a été fabriquée en octobre 72 et est bien une L.

3125 a l'air plutôt en bon état sur les photos, mais on n'est jamais à l'abris de quelques mauvaises surprises sur des autos de 50 ans, c'est aussi ce qui fait le charme des restaurations.

Hello Full-nours

I'm not good at English either, but luckily there is Google translate!

In which region are you, I myself live in Corrèze and I'm restoring #4406 for 3 and a half years with almost a year of interruption due to moving. #4406 was manufactured in October 72 and is indeed an L.

#3125 looks pretty good in the photos, but you are never immune to a few nasty surprises on 50-year-old cars, which is also what makes restorations so charming.

thanks all for your messages

Rocky, I think too the big bumper was custom from old owner..

Can I find serial numbers of pre-l for confirm my version ?
Pre-l, that changes something ?
what are the good bumpers ?
where can i find the original color code ? (for confirm red..)

big thank you

Hello Rene, I live in region of Paris. She look good but not perfect.. I'm going to disassemble and sand it. New brakes, cooling, suspensions, engine control, ZF control.. no custom but make reliable all the car. Make a good job for dream car

Bonjour René, je vie en région parisienne. La voiture est pas si mal mais je souhaite refaire tout de A à Z. Démontage, sablage de la caisse, époxy des trains roulants, démontage complet du moteur et remontage de tous les consommables versions 2021 (freins/radiateur/amortisseurs/etc...)  Garder l'esprit d'origine mais fiabiliser. Une voiture de rêve mérite de l'attention

----> MP, en français

Hello Full-nours,

I also live in region of Paris (essonne) and I own a Pantera euro GTS (# 9117) that I am in the process of finishing restoring.

Bonjour Full-nours,

j'habite aussi en région parisienne (essonne) et je suis possesseur d'une Pantera euro GTS (# 9117) que je fini de restaurer.

Hello Dipascale, thanks for your message. I thought Panteras were only known in USA, no french club, or forum.. (or old and dead). I’m happy to meet you and André !

I go to see your work on forum.
if you have french tips for parts I'm interested.

I find US parts dealers with a good reputation according to this forum but it’s not easy by email...

Salut les gars. Si jamais vous avez besoin d’assistance je suis au Canada et bilingue.  Denis

Can you post a photo of the rear of the vehicle?

... also a lower frontal photo of the front bumper and turn signal mountings.

Preliminarily, it looks pre-L due to the added external racing fuel filler pipe poking through a stock non-opening rear quarter fake scoop. There is also an apparent lack of a spare wheel well contour in the rear trunk, the spare being stored in the front, although the photo is unclear.

The front "L" bumper is not fitted properly. The top corners were designed to follow the top fender line which it clearly doesn't. A poor job. Additionally, I would check for previous front collision damage.

Thanks Denis !

@judgepaul posted:

Can you post a photo of the rear of the vehicle?

hello Paul, of course

@judgepaul posted:

... also a lower frontal photo of the front bumper and turn signal mountings.

All is possible ;-)

@judgepaul posted:

Preliminarily, it looks pre-L due to the added external racing fuel filler pipe poking through a stock non-opening rear quarter fake scoop. There is also an apparent lack of a spare wheel well contour in the rear trunk, the spare being stored in the front, although the photo is unclear.

@judgepaul posted:

The front "L" bumper is not fitted properly. The top corners were designed to follow the top fender line which it clearly doesn't. A poor job. Additionally, I would check for previous front collision damage.

Yes, I think big bumper is custom after sale. Good because I prefer small one.

But for this year, bumper with or without flashing ?

The lower frontal photos eliminate all doubt. Do you have the rear bumper(s)?

The new photo does show the rear spare tire well.

Hello Full-nours

99% of the parts I buy come from the united states where we can find almost all the parts: for engine parts there is Summit or Jegs for specific Pantera parts: there is Panterasbywilkinson or Pantera parts connection or on ebay barbaram442, I have never had any problem with these 5 suppliers, you just have to create an account and wait on average 2 to 3 weeks to have the parts ordered.

Good luck with the restoration of # 3125

99 % des pièces que j'achète viennent des états uni où on trouve quasi toutes les pièces: pour les pièces moteur il y a Summit ou Jegs pour les pièces spécifiques Pantera: il y a Panterasbywilkinson ou Pantera parts connection ou sur ebay barbaram442, je n'ai jamais eu aucun problème avec ces 5 fournisseurs, il faut juste créer un compte et attendre en moyenne 2 à 3 semaines pour avoir les pièces commandées.

Bon courage avec la restauration de #3125

@judgepaul posted:

The lower frontal photos eliminate all doubt. Do you have the rear bumper(s)?

I don’t have rear bumpers..

the good for my year is yellow ?

@dipascale posted:

Hello Full-nours

99% of the parts I buy come from the united states where we can find almost all the parts: for engine parts there is Summit or Jegs for specific Pantera parts: there is Panterasbywilkinson or Pantera parts connection or on ebay barbaram442, I have never had any problem with these 5 suppliers, you just have to create an account and wait on average 2 to 3 weeks to have the parts

thanks for your tips !

I look brake kit PrecisionProformance (For exemple) I have read here good reviews of this store.. but only by phone

https://precisionproformance.com/bc2052.php

Pantera body on first, but after I will list all the parts for ask your opinions :-)

Precision Pro-Formance is no longer in business. 😕😕

two “pods” removed from L-model car

Yellow is correct for your 1972 USA pre-L Pantera.

White is correct for cars not sold in USA that were built after the L model front sheet metal changes. DeTomaso kept the signal light “pods” from the L model but created the new white bumper, sometimes called an eyebrow bumper

eyebrow bumpers are available from vendors in fiberglass

Larry

@lf-tp2511 posted:

Precision Pro-Formance is no longer in business. 😕😕

😕😕

@lf-tp2511 posted:

two “pods” removed from L-model car

Yellow is correct for your 1972 USA pre-L Pantera.

White is correct for cars not sold in USA that were built after the L model front sheet metal changes. DeTomaso kept the signal light “pods” from the L model but created the new white bumper, sometimes called an eyebrow bumper

eyebrow bumpers are available from vendors in fiberglass

Larry

thank Larry, so I'm going to look for the US bumpers that I find the prettiest 👍

She is at home
I start now dismantling for look all problems

Has anyone ever seen these wheels on Pantera?
In the movie "Ford v. Ferrari" (with Matt Damon) I look the first GT40 with spoke wheels...

And now the fun begins! I've seen pictures of at least one car with wire wheels. Probably added in the 80's? Doesn't look right to me.

For me original wheels are the best looking of all.

But I respect somebody else their choice.

Simon

she's from Montana, american custom 70's or 80's
I look Campagnolo 15" or 17" like PI Motorsports store

https://pim.net/11192009HeritageKumhoSale1.htm

I have a question about the power of my engine, the first 1971 Pantera had 330 cv and Pantera Lusso 1972 had 248 cv.
But my Pre L ? engine serial can help me ?

thanks

@full-nours posted:

I have a question about the power of my engine, the first 1971 Pantera had 330 cv and Pantera Lusso 1972 had 248 cv.
But my Pre L ? engine serial can help me ?

thanks

Its a start but that rating is for the factory original engine in its original configuration, smog control, etc. Do you know if any modifications have been done to it?

In addition it is necessary to take into account the gross or net SAE standards vs the DIN standards. Difficult to compare and really know what we are talking about.

@full-nours posted:

I have a question about the power of my engine, the first 1971 Pantera had 330 cv and Pantera Lusso 1972 had 248 cv.
But my Pre L ? engine serial can help me ?

thanks

Take those HP what are listed not to serieus .

Simon

😳😳😳

The front bumper has been mounted upside down. Really ....... upside down ‼️

You may discover all sorts of additional surprises now that you have the car to inspect and evaluate.

Good luck.

Larry

Larry,

I don't think that the bumper is upside down. It's just mounted a few inches too low. Looks like 2-3" low.

Ron

Upon closer inspection I do stand corrected, Ron. Hadn’t had my 1st cup of coffee when I posted. 😉

Larry

@rmccall posted:

Larry,
I don't think that the bumper is upside down. It's just mounted a few inches too low. Looks like 2-3" low.
Ron

I think too, because with thebevel it's impossible to reverse it

Yes, it is really mounted upside down, the central part is located above the hood, I had seen it from the first photos.
If this is the only fault in the car, it is easy to repair

@husker posted:

Do you know if any modifications have been done to it?

I don't know... surprise at dismantling

@rene4406 posted:

If this is the only fault in the car, it is easy to repair

So easy, I would like to install the small bumpers

Nicolas, if you are trying to determine whether you have the early high compression motor or the later lower compression "Cobra Jet" motor, one clue is a dual point distributor for the "Cobra Jet" if it still has the original distributor (and motor). I'm interested if anyone can provide VIN #s of '72 original Cobra Jets so we can determine the approximate switchover dates.

thank you for your message, I will take pictures during disassembly

There is also the mark on the upper angle of the cylinder heads, if there is a point next to 4 (for 4V) these are open chambers and therefore low compression, if there is not it is closed chamber and therefore high compression

The head of the photo is an open chamber since there is the point

Nicolas bon  jour!

well nice to have you. These cars are top  notch but lots of work to make them perfect.

First is HOW GOOD is the chassis, as body work is terrible expensive unless you do it yourself as René does. Some metall sheets you can get in the EU/UK..rest is import from the US or custom. You might send some fotos from below..Front, rails, doors, rockers etc. ROST??

Chrome componets are hard to find, so start lookig as you do for the bumpers.

Completeness is next....Rims is the easiest if you go for replicats. If original, tough effort....but can  be found at least the 7/8 inch Stuff at reasonable cost.  Well 15 vs 17" is a consideration but lost of originality. tires ok for 17 hard for 15 (Avon UK for rear if you want to go big).

Gear box is hard too, did you drive the car, did it shift decently?? .. so RBT is the place in the US..he has a fact/$ sheet. Think they produce in the US/TX, so less issue with supply chain today. Engine parts is getting more difficult as lots of raw stuff comes from far east, well is finished in the US..expect 2 month delivery latency  now.

If I can help happy to do as I did all the overhaul. The team is great they know most of the places to look for parts top team members having parts but also Fiat/Ford/Triumpf/ xx/yy and advise..

p.s.. my ORIGINAL motor is 4109 with chassi 4907,car was buit in 12/1972 with cobra JET with open chamber (The "dot"4 per René). did replace them by aluminium heads

Matthias /Stuttgart Germany

@rene4406 posted:

The head of the photo is an open chamber since there is the point

Thanks René :D
lost for me...

@matg posted:

Nicolas bon  jour!

Hello Matthias,

tanks for your message. today I haven't picture to under the car.
But on my dashboard, the former owner left me a gift
Germans live in USA Montana

The 4 (dot) to determine open verses closed head is a relevation to me.  This is an extremely beneficial data point as common understanding among many knowledgeable Pantera owners has been that it required intake removal at the least to see casting marks that could identify.

I have open and closed heads in storage that I will eventually inspect to confirm.  However before I make my way over there, can anyone else confirm the accuracy of this casting mark as an indicator of open verses closed combustion chambers on a 4V head?

@jtpantera posted:

The 4 (dot) to determine open verses closed head is a relevation to me.  This is an extremely beneficial data point as common understanding among many knowledgeable Pantera owners has been that it required intake removal at the least to see casting marks that could identify.

I have open and closed heads in storage that I will eventually inspect to confirm.  However before I make my way over there, can anyone else confirm the accuracy of this casting mark as an indicator of open verses closed combustion chambers on a 4V head?

Per the books (Ford Parts Interchange)  it is what it is .4 is open camber..well in the old days nothing was that precise..

at least we have 2 evidences
1) René..has a .4 head  ..OPEN Chamber
2) myself has .4 heads (on shelf) ... OPEN Chamber

(ok, this is not an issue you just need dif pistons to get the compression up to 10/ plus ...and a head overhaul to make them adequate for heavy valve lift..George Pence did a wonderfull write up on this..).

AND.. the Pantera is wild even with so called 27x horsepower!!...is the least issue to me honestly..

Matthias/Stuttgart

Interesting. Learn something new every day...

FWIW, my dot 4 heads were, indeed, open chamber. Thus why I replaced them with Edelbrock aluminum heads back in 2010.

I think the information is reliable, it appears especially in this book:

I thought that George Pence, on this very BB, had stated that the dot was not a conclusive indication of open vs. closed chamber....

Nevertheless, I have only my phone, and you guys have heads in front of you, so it’s hard for me to argue this point.

I know George (and I) believe with the appropriate pistons, open chamber heads can generate just as much power as the closed chamber ones.  

Don’t feel bad because they are open chamber - they can be very effective.

Rocky

per the book (above) the DOT is the key indicator..4 is just 4 barrels (big openings).