Dumb question - I always have mounted them cylinder side down. Does it matter?
Just measured one on a bathroom scale compressing downward - 70 lbs. No way they would hold up the deck. POS.
If you mount them cylinder side up the seal shouldn't dry out. Other than than it won't make a difference.
Took the "mighty-lifts" back to autozone and got a refund. bought a set of Sachs 003's. Holding so far, but not as strong as I would like. When Kragen was still in business, their Dorman brand made a good lift strut with life time warranty. Too bad. Jury is out on the Sachs. Will keep all updated.
I've had mine for at least 15 years. They lift up the rear deck (with delta wing) with no effort from me at all. And it stays up. I can leave it open all day in the sun. They haven't lost anything in all these years. There's no brand name on them but I snapped this. I highly recommend them if you can figure out who's they are. I can't find any reference for that PN.
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quote:Originally posted by Panterapatt:
Took the "mighty-lifts" back to autozone and got a refund. bought a set of Sachs 003's. Holding so far, but not as strong as I would like. When Kragen was still in business, their Dorman brand made a good lift strut with life time warranty. Too bad. Jury is out on the Sachs. Will keep all updated.
Dude, before you put them on the car did you measure the pressure on the Sachs? I found 106 on the Autozone Mighty-Lift D95004 when I put them on my car, and that was for sure the sweet spot. Much more than that I understand isn't good, I even saw one car where the struts bent the roof in some strange manner.
I measured the Sachs - was around 90 lbs. on one, the other was 80+ lbs.
Most of the verified Pantera parts vendors WILL NOT sell struts that measure over 100 lbs due to the likelihood of warping the roof where the hinges bolt on. If your decklid needs more than 100 lbs from each strut, use a strut-lock on one rod rather than a lift that can wreck the body. FWIW, the roof area is probably the least easy area to fix of the whole car- by anyone.
Pantera-Pat, the stock struts had a boot and a raised portion of the strut. The boot was loose-fitting and water ran down the rod under the boot & collected at the raised part. Then it rusted. So, many old-timers started installing stock struts upside-down to preserve the strut seals. With the Chinese gas struts used nowadays and their more rounded seal ends, there's no particular advantage to mounting upside-down but the early mount is widely copied anyway. FWIW, the rod end unscrews on most, if you have blade-type (Hall) ends and need heim-joint ends.
Pantera-Pat, the stock struts had a boot and a raised portion of the strut. The boot was loose-fitting and water ran down the rod under the boot & collected at the raised part. Then it rusted. So, many old-timers started installing stock struts upside-down to preserve the strut seals. With the Chinese gas struts used nowadays and their more rounded seal ends, there's no particular advantage to mounting upside-down but the early mount is widely copied anyway. FWIW, the rod end unscrews on most, if you have blade-type (Hall) ends and need heim-joint ends.
I don't get it.
We all like to save money but the possible consequences do not seem to be worth the risk; warped decks and damaged roofs, as Jack stated, among others. I was also one of you guys experimenting UNTIL I found out about the damage the NAPA, Belkamp, Autozone, etc, shocks could cause. I'm sure I spent way more than the $90 cost from one of our suppliers. Buy the $90 shocks from one of our suppliers and have some piece of mind and save the possible repair dollars. Go price a deck lid before you experiment!
Just my opinion.
We all like to save money but the possible consequences do not seem to be worth the risk; warped decks and damaged roofs, as Jack stated, among others. I was also one of you guys experimenting UNTIL I found out about the damage the NAPA, Belkamp, Autozone, etc, shocks could cause. I'm sure I spent way more than the $90 cost from one of our suppliers. Buy the $90 shocks from one of our suppliers and have some piece of mind and save the possible repair dollars. Go price a deck lid before you experiment!
Just my opinion.
Do the vendor struts come with certifications, load reports and ISO certifications that they are guaranteed to be precisely at some calculated load rating based on solid modeling and 3-d analysis that won't deflect the myriad of pantera decks out there. come on now guys. the vendors did the same thing - they experimented until they found something that worked and sell it for $90.
No reputable vendor will never sell a strut that exceeds 100 lbs.? yea, am sure they are load testing each unit.
No reputable vendor will never sell a strut that exceeds 100 lbs.? yea, am sure they are load testing each unit.
IndyDave, I agree totally that cost should not be an issue; however the only reason I switched to find non-detomoso labeled struts is because the pressure on them just seemed too much to me. So when I took my new Detomaso 18126A brand off of my car and measured them, these are the pressures I discovered as noted below. Anyone else can try it too, for verification, but that is what I found, and then my Autozone Mighty-Lift D95004 were much less at 106 lbs (just right in my opinion). I am not saying the Detomaso 18126A will bend your hood or anything, but for me that pressure just seemed too strong.
Detomaso 18126A pressure: 1/2 to 1" compressed = 120 lb (this is what it took to make it start to compress).
2" to full compression gradually increased from the 120 to 160 near full compression.
Detomaso 18126A pressure: 1/2 to 1" compressed = 120 lb (this is what it took to make it start to compress).
2" to full compression gradually increased from the 120 to 160 near full compression.
Jan,
I will dig around & see what I can turn up from several of the suppliers, regarding compression. Let me know if you already have the information.
Dave
I will dig around & see what I can turn up from several of the suppliers, regarding compression. Let me know if you already have the information.
Dave
quote:Originally posted by IndyDave:
Jan,
I will dig around & see what I can turn up from several of the suppliers, regarding compression. Let me know if you already have the information.
Dave
Good luck, usually they don't know the pressures, and a few vendors I asked wouldn't even tell what their pressures were, like a big secret. That is why I measured my Detomaso 18126A and others myself.
My struts are about ten years old and work great when it's warm out. I installed a wing three years ago and the still do a great of holding it up. I think they came from Larry. When the cold air arrives in New York they have alway need a litte help.
...Why hasn't one of US developed a Air Cylinder with a 'Schrader' Valve (Like on Your wheels) that would allow the User to Adjust (Raise or Lower) the Pressure (using a Compressor or just a Hand Pump)!? The 'Balance' could be set Perfectly to Ones Liking. With Wing...Without Wing. Steel Bonnet, Carbon Fiber! With the Accuracy of a Digital pressure Gauge the Pair could be Balanced Perfectly Left to Right! OR just Connect them together with a Thin line.
Does One believe that Two aftemarket Cylinders 'Off the Shelf', would come Perfectly Matched?
Also, Instead of Air, Use Nitrogen! The design would never 'Die'!! When they get weak...pump them up! Hot Climate/Cold Climate; REadjust!! A Small 'Mini' Gauge could be mounted on Each Strut(or just One) to help Moniter the 'Health' of Each Cylinder!
Or do 'I' have to do IT? They would NOT come Cheap!...
Does One believe that Two aftemarket Cylinders 'Off the Shelf', would come Perfectly Matched?
Also, Instead of Air, Use Nitrogen! The design would never 'Die'!! When they get weak...pump them up! Hot Climate/Cold Climate; REadjust!! A Small 'Mini' Gauge could be mounted on Each Strut(or just One) to help Moniter the 'Health' of Each Cylinder!
Or do 'I' have to do IT? They would NOT come Cheap!...
quote:Originally posted by MARLIN JACK:
....
Or do 'I' have to do IT? They would NOT come Cheap!...
That would be one way .. but complicated. Not to sound like a pimp for the IPSCO setup, but the engineering elegantly solves the inherent geometry problem with the original design. Love the Italians, but A^2+B^2=C^2 was not in their vocabulary.
...I thought We decided on the Correct Orientation of the Strut a Long Time Ago!!
The Rod Goes DOWN, so the Piston and Seals Stay Covered with the Lubricating Oil!! And YES! It IS The Heat that Makes Them Fail; as well as the 'Reservoir' being on the Bottom. With NO Lubrication the Piston Seals Dry out, can't Slide smoothly, they tear...NO more Pressure! There's No Mystery Here! And there's always the Heat! Even the Most Expensive Cylinders can Only Handle 140 Dgrees F! How hot do these Struts get? What is the temp Radiating off the Heads and Headers in the Vecinity of these Struts? 250F, 300F Higher?
I just finished Researching what I would need to produce a Custom, Fully Adjustable 'Air Strut', Specifically for the Pantera, and Only the Pantera! They are Perfectly 'Doable', But I would have to get $200. Each for them. And then they could only handle 140F Max.
I could Machine and build them from scratch, but the Piston 'Seal' would be 'Iffy'! and the cost would be Astronomical! Over the Cheaper Struts, there would never be a Market for Them!
My Advice is, if You mount them with the Rod Up, Expect them to Fail a Lot Sooner!! And even With the Rod Down, Sooner or Later, the Heat WILL Kill them! I suppose one could wrap a 'Ice-Pack' around them; or Install AC Onto them!LOL
Well, just use a Broomstick for a Hood-Prop and stop throwing Money away on Taiwanese Junk!LOL...
The Rod Goes DOWN, so the Piston and Seals Stay Covered with the Lubricating Oil!! And YES! It IS The Heat that Makes Them Fail; as well as the 'Reservoir' being on the Bottom. With NO Lubrication the Piston Seals Dry out, can't Slide smoothly, they tear...NO more Pressure! There's No Mystery Here! And there's always the Heat! Even the Most Expensive Cylinders can Only Handle 140 Dgrees F! How hot do these Struts get? What is the temp Radiating off the Heads and Headers in the Vecinity of these Struts? 250F, 300F Higher?
I just finished Researching what I would need to produce a Custom, Fully Adjustable 'Air Strut', Specifically for the Pantera, and Only the Pantera! They are Perfectly 'Doable', But I would have to get $200. Each for them. And then they could only handle 140F Max.
I could Machine and build them from scratch, but the Piston 'Seal' would be 'Iffy'! and the cost would be Astronomical! Over the Cheaper Struts, there would never be a Market for Them!
My Advice is, if You mount them with the Rod Up, Expect them to Fail a Lot Sooner!! And even With the Rod Down, Sooner or Later, the Heat WILL Kill them! I suppose one could wrap a 'Ice-Pack' around them; or Install AC Onto them!LOL
Well, just use a Broomstick for a Hood-Prop and stop throwing Money away on Taiwanese Junk!LOL...
quote:Originally posted by MARLIN JACK:
...I thought We decided on the Correct Orientation of the Strut a Long Time Ago!!
The Rod Goes DOWN, so the Piston and Seals Stay Covered with the Lubricating Oil!! And YES! It IS The Heat that Makes Them Fail; as well as the 'Reservoir' being on the Bottom. With NO Lubrication the Piston Seals Dry out, can't Slide smoothly, they tear...NO more Pressure! There's No Mystery Here! And there's always the Heat! Even the Most Expensive Cylinders can Only Handle 140 Dgrees F! How hot do these Struts get? What is the temp Radiating off the Heads and Headers in the Vecinity of these Struts? 250F, 300F Higher?
I just finished Researching what I would need to produce a Custom, Fully Adjustable 'Air Strut', Specifically for the Pantera, and Only the Pantera! They are Perfectly 'Doable', But I would have to get $200. Each for them. And then they could only handle 140F Max.
I could Machine and build them from scratch, but the Piston 'Seal' would be 'Iffy'! and the cost would be Astronomical! Over the Cheaper Struts, there would never be a Market for Them!
My Advice is, if You mount them with the Rod Up, Expect them to Fail a Lot Sooner!! And even With the Rod Down, Sooner or Later, the Heat WILL Kill them! I suppose one could wrap a 'Ice-Pack' around them; or Install AC Onto them!LOL
Well, just use a Broomstick for a Hood-Prop and stop throwing Money away on Taiwanese Junk!LOL...
I figured maybe the heat is what was doing in my Autozone struts early. I did get some heat tubing wrap from Racing Sumit, which looks ok but I usually just slip them off at shows. Next time they fail I will put in the struts rod down, but so far with that heat wrap things seem to be ok.
quote:Originally posted by Dave2811:quote:Originally posted by MARLIN JACK:
....
Or do 'I' have to do IT? They would NOT come Cheap!...
That would be one way .. but complicated. Not to sound like a pimp for the IPSCO setup, but the engineering elegantly solves the inherent geometry problem with the original design. Love the Italians, but A^2+B^2=C^2 was not in their vocabulary.
The IPSCO system completely eliminates the problem with too much shock pressure and possible damage bending the decklid or hinges. There is no up ward force on the decklid or hinges at all when its closed. It all pushes straight back. I have a wing on my car and it raises nicely. Plus when its Going up at the end it slows down so it won't jar the decklid. I'm sold on the system.
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Well, my Autozone Mighty-Lift D95004 finally got weaker just over a year after install. Plus as I mentioned above, I heat wrapped them to protect them from engine heat. It still let a little heat onto them, but sure cut it down quite a bit. They have been a little weak in the CA winter (with CA temps around 50-60 during the day), but now that we are experiencing warmer weather, it seems they are still weak. So, I thought I would just report back that my heat wrap experiment didn't quite work in keeping them strong. So now I just use the clamp-on devise onto one of the struts to keep it up. I may actually go back to the Detomaso 18126A that the vendors are selling, eventhough the pressure I tested seemed high as noted below. But if no one has issues with them being too strong, then what the hey, strap em on.
Detomaso 18126A pressure: 1/2 to 1" compressed = 120 lb (this is what it took to make it start to compress).
2" to full compression gradually increased from the 120 to 160 near full compression.
Detomaso 18126A pressure: 1/2 to 1" compressed = 120 lb (this is what it took to make it start to compress).
2" to full compression gradually increased from the 120 to 160 near full compression.