I have been toying around with upgrading my stock seats. I have looked at numerous posts about using C4 corvette seats. I also noticed a few regarding C5 seats.

I was wondering if someone running a C4 or C5 seat could tell me how close the back of the seat is to the ceiling (roof) of the car. I am guessing that the Corvette seat back sits pretty high in the car and was wondering how that looks from inside and also outside the car. Also are you running a stock seat track that was modified to fit the corvette seat or something else?

If anyone has any photos they would be much appreciated. Also any other thoughts or suggestions are welcomed. Sitting in the stock Pantera seat, with non-dropped floor pans, my head is only 1.5” away from the headliner.

Thanks again.
Original Post
When I decide to change my seats, my car already had Scheel seats and I couldn't imagine putting factory seats in my car. I've checked out the diffent options - C4/C5, Recaro, Flofit, et cetara and decided on the Fiero seats with a rebuild kit I bought from MrMikes.



This exterior shot shows how high the seats sit in the car using the Pantera seat tracks. The stock fiero seat tracks make them sit too high.


Additional pictures of my car can be found on MrMikes website (www.mrmikes.com)as well as a couple of other Panteras with the same seats.

Good luck in your quest.
quote:
What kind of seat belts do you have? I'm tired of digging around on the floor looking for the damn female belt! Hate when that happens!

I made small extentions for the female sides of my belts. Cheap and easy (like me)
Will
quote:
Originally posted by Cuvee:
Nice seats. What kind of seat belts do you have? I'm tired of digging around on the floor looking for the damn female belt! Hate when that happens!


The seat belts are for a Grp5 but I've seen the same stalks for the locks on an early MBZ and some other cars. I'd have to check as I forget the manufacturer. I gave up on the 4pt harness I used to have after I converted to the Fiero seats (not practical on a street car).
4n, I built a pair of seatbelt end "holders" from late '80s Ford pickup belt holders, cut down to perfectly fit a Pantera. Practically speaking, you only need holders on the inboard ends for both driver & passenger. There was an illustrated article on what to do and how to do it in the POCA News of May 2008.
After I converted to Corvette C-4 seats http://www.panteraplace.com/page127.htm my next upgrade was installing a pair of Toyota FJ-4 Land Cruiser seat belts. http://coolfj40.stores.yahoo.net/seatbelfj19t.html

I mounted the single inertial retract mechanism to the rear bulkhead in the stock location. I had to cut a 'window' in the stock fairing cover for the larger mechanism. I removed the rocker area retract mechanism and mounted the end of the new belt to the stock steel plate. The female receptor is on a semi rigid cable like the factory GT5S. It's mounted in the stock location with an 'L' angle. What a difference over the stock Pantera set-up.

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LIV1S your seats look great. I actually have access to an old junk Fiero that that I could pull the seats out of.

Do you remember how much the seat kits were from Mr. Mikes. I just looked at his site, however, there are not any prices listed.

Thanks.
quote:
Originally posted by Garvino:
LIV1S your seats look great. I actually have access to an old junk Fiero that that I could pull the seats out of.

Do you remember how much the seat kits were from Mr. Mikes. I just looked at his site, however, there are not any prices listed.

Thanks.


I did the upgrade a couple years ago and I believe the cost was around $700 which included your choice of style and the embroidered Isis logo in your choice of color. The kit was very detailed and included a DVD, hog ring pliers and rings. If you do decide to go with the kit, I can look up the actual price I paid.

Good luck in your quest.
Garvino, I went the Mr. Mikes Fiero seat route as well, but I ended up having to bolt them to the floor with no tracks. Even had to cut the carpet out around to bolt holes to get just a smidgen more headroom. I'm 6' tall with a long torso and as it is, I barely fit in the car. Depending on your height, this could be a problem. You could substitute thinner foam on the seat bottoms for more headroom.
I think I paid $550 for the kit and another $50 for the seats. Mine have the speakers in the headrests and this helped the stereo immensely. I put new speakers in the headrests before recovering them, so that is an additional expense.
I'm not sure where you are in Wyoming, but I'm in Greeley CO so I might be just down the road from you. You're welcome to come over for a test fit before you buy. Might save you some dissapointment and expense!
Later, Mooso.
When even considering buying a Pantera, the primary question should be 'How tall are your?' Are they trying to say that all italians are 5'9" or shorter?

When I installed the Fiero seats, I had to use a Pantera bracket as the Fiero brackets would cause the seats to sit too high for me.
FWIW, there are three different 'stock' seats (and maybe more!) that come in various years of Panteras. IMHO the earliest examples from '71-72 can be made to comfortably fit nearly any human being. The seats I like are the ones in which the backs completely remove with 4 bolts; the rear fastener system can be easily modified to change the seatback 'rake' which will accomodate most comfortably. Reupholstered examples allow my aged 6'2" body to drive 6-8 hours at a stretch and change with my 5'4" wife who also has no back or seat problems. Most aftermarket seats often simply do not fit well in the Pantera which has rather narrow seat areas. Rule of Thumb: if you are 6' or over, avoid ALL seats that have thick backs or bases; both limit the adjustability of whatever seat you choose, and carefully measure the overall width of the donor seat before buying. What fits the drivers side may not fit the passenger side- or your co-driver.
I just had the conversation about seat fitment and according to Steve Wilkinson, the seat base width is limited to around 19" on the passenger side and 20" on the driver side. That limit is for the very bottom of the seat. I have Gary Herrings Corvette seats and love them. However, I have a set of cut down in height Ford GT seats I am going to go with. Only reason is the weight savings since they are real carbon fiber based.
David,

Where did you find those GT seats? Do you know what model they are; and if there are any around?

Are you going to install tracks on them as well, or just bolt them to the floor? If you are going to use tracks, where does one find these?

Thanks,

Mark
The seats are from the Shelby Cobra roadster concept vehicle used in a movie. Ford provided the movie makers with the details of the concept car and the seats are custom made by Sparco using the original design. The seats actually say Ford GT on the Sparco production labels since they are modified Ford GT buckets. The difference is in the movie the seats have the Sparco company name on them where the original concept car does not. Steve likes them and he has a call into Sparco to find out if he can order any. My expectation would be Ford owns the rights. Ford GT seats themselves are priced too high in my opinion. There is a set of Ford GT seats used on Ebay for $5000. I have heard that new ones are about twice that. I haven't decided on the mounting but Sparco makes universal tracks.
Hi folk's, like Garvino, i'm looking for new seats for my pantera. As somebody ever fit NRG bucket racing seats or 3A Netami seats in their pantera (actually on sale on Ebay)...How they fit in the car, how much free space between the center console + the seat + door panel? are they comfortable? Needed to put drop floor pans?

Regards.

Serge
Thanks for all the comments and photos so far. If there are any other photos out there of other seats being utilized I would appreciate it. I also am considering the FJ seatbelt conversion that CAT7195 did. It looks pretty slick.

BTW – Mooso – I am out of Casper and am actually headed to Denver in the beginning of September. If there is anyway I could swing in real fast and sit in your Pantera that would be great. I think it would really help me out with the decision making process.

Thanks again everyone for your input.
quote:
Originally posted by Brutus:
Hi folk's, like Garvino, i'm looking for new seats for my pantera. As somebody ever fit NRG bucket racing seats or 3A Netami seats in their pantera (actually on sale on Ebay)...How they fit in the car, how much free space between the center console + the seat + door panel? are they comfortable? Needed to put drop floor pans?

Regards.

Serge

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quote:
Originally posted by Brutus:
Hi folk's, like Garvino, i'm looking for new seats for my pantera. As somebody ever fit NRG bucket racing seats or 3A Netami seats in their pantera (actually on sale on Ebay)...How they fit in the car, how much free space between the center console + the seat + door panel? are they comfortable? Needed to put drop floor pans?

Regards.

Serge


pic2

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quote:
Originally posted by Brutus:
Hi folk's, like Garvino, i'm looking for new seats for my pantera. As somebody ever fit NRG bucket racing seats or 3A Netami seats in their pantera (actually on sale on Ebay)...How they fit in the car, how much free space between the center console + the seat + door panel? are they comfortable? Needed to put drop floor pans?

Regards.

Serge


pic3

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They are not the racing seats you named but they are sparco racing seats. I am 6 foot tall and fit very well in the seats. They do hold you in place when going around turns. My pantera has dropped floor pans. Also the front of the seat have a 1 inch spacer in the fronts to tilt the seat back.
Garvino,

As per your request, here are some photos of my seats. They are old (1970's) Recaro's that I had upholstered as you see in the photos. A fellow Pantera owner gave them to me because he has a factory Group 3 racing Pantera and wanted real racing buckets. The seats were a mess but after buying all new plastic parts from Recaro and having them upholstered, they look like new. They fit the Pantera like they were made for it and look like they belong in the car. More important than how they look is how they feel. They fit me like my favorite pair of jeans. I was lucky enough to get them with the Recaro Pantera tracks but adapting other tracks would be pretty easy. These seats were popular in the '70's and were even OE in some BMW's. I see them on eBay on a regular basis and they're always cheap ! Check out eBay auction number 230505808827 as an example.

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David,

Thanks for the pics. Your seats look great. Do the Recaro seats recline and fold forward? Also how high do the seats stick up past the bulk head and protrude into the window area?

One seat I looked at would only have about one inch clearance between the roof of the car and the headrest top.

Thanks again.
Garvino,

Yes, the Recaro's recline and fold forward. You can either adjust them forward, a bit at a time, or "dump" them all the way forward. I can even remove the bulkhead without removing the seats. See the attached photo for the answer to your headrest clearance question. I do; however, have two modifications that you should take into consideration: I have the Amerisport bulkhead reduction kit as well as lowered floor pans. The bulkhead reduction kit doesn't affect the driver's seat at all. It allows the passenger seat to recline further back. My lowered floor pans were custom fabricated and only drop the floor by 1-1/2", so you can see in the photo that the seats would be fine without the drop.

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quote:
Originally posted by David_Nunn:
Garvino,

Yes, the Recaro's recline and fold forward. You can either adjust them forward, a bit at a time, or "dump" them all the way forward. I can even remove the bulkhead without removing the seats. See the attached photo for the answer to your headrest clearance question. I do; however, have two modifications that you should take into consideration: I have the Amerisport bulkhead reduction kit as well as lowered floor pans. The bulkhead reduction kit doesn't affect the driver's seat at all. It allows the passenger seat to recline further back. My lowered floor pans were custom fabricated and only drop the floor by 1-1/2", so you can see in the photo that the seats would be fine without the drop.


Beautiful job on the seats David and definitely look like they belong there. How did you resolve the issue with the clearance of the passenger and the handbrake box?
Thanks David. Handbrake box clearance is an issue I had with the Fiero seats I installed. I've considered removing and narrowing the box so the passenger seats will roll all the way back but It'll have to wait until I get around to doing the bulkhead reduction that you did.
Bayani, easier than reworking the handbrake box is using a pair of metal strips between seat base and adjusting tracks to offset the seat base sideways toward the door. Not only does it fix the handbrake problem, it makes the firewall bulge less of an issue. Sure it twists the passenger a little on the seat, but thats not so much of an issue as with the driver who has to deal with pedals & a wheel. I did this to our '72 some 15 years ago when I had our stock seats rebuilt & modified. And since Judy & I trade off driving so I spend time in the passenger side, I can verify the offset does nothing serious to seating comfort.
I used 1/4" thick aluminum strips 3" wide & moved the seat 1-1/2" outboard; if I were to do it again, I would angle the seat on the strips rather than keep it perfectly parallel, aesthetics aside.
Brilliant solution Jack! This definitely comes under the heading of why didn't I think of that before? Beautifully simple.
I have a question - you suggest angling the seat and not worrying about making it parallel - do you suggest to use the original bolts/holes that anchor the front of the seat rails to the floor? Wouldn't that lead to a 'trapeizoide' effect on the rails that would affect how the seat slides, or don't you think the angle would be a problem.
Cheers, Tim.
quote:
Originally posted by Bosswrench:
Bayani, easier than reworking the handbrake box is using a pair of metal strips between seat base and adjusting tracks to offset the seat base sideways toward the door. Not only does it fix the handbrake problem, it makes the firewall bulge less of an issue. Sure it twists the passenger a little on the seat, but thats not so much of an issue as with the driver who has to deal with pedals & a wheel. I did this to our '72 some 15 years ago when I had our stock seats rebuilt & modified. And since Judy & I trade off driving so I spend time in the passenger side, I can verify the offset does nothing serious to seating comfort.
I used 1/4" thick aluminum strips 3" wide & moved the seat 1-1/2" outboard; if I were to do it again, I would angle the seat on the strips rather than keep it perfectly parallel, aesthetics aside.


Thanks Jack.... That is an alternative I will definitely consider. Probably easier to make offset studs to gain the clearance I need than to mod the handbrake box. I did try to offset the driver side to get a more central steering wheel position but it left a too big of a gap between the driver seat and the inner rocker panel hump so I decided against it. I still try consider aesthetics I'm afraid.
quote:
Originally posted by Bosswrench:
Bayani, easier than reworking the handbrake box is using a pair of metal strips between seat base and adjusting tracks to offset the seat base sideways toward the door. Not only does it fix the handbrake problem, it makes the firewall bulge less of an issue. Sure it twists the passenger a little on the seat, but thats not so much of an issue as with the driver who has to deal with pedals & a wheel. I did this to our '72 some 15 years ago when I had our stock seats rebuilt & modified. And since Judy & I trade off driving so I spend time in the passenger side, I can verify the offset does nothing serious to seating comfort.
I used 1/4" thick aluminum strips 3" wide & moved the seat 1-1/2" outboard; if I were to do it again, I would angle the seat on the strips rather than keep it perfectly parallel, aesthetics aside.


Hi Jack,
I just had a look at my car to make this modification, and I can't see that it is possible for me to move the seat over. I have a 74 US GTS and the passenger side seat is already basically hard up against the inside of the rockers and the seat belt attachment at the floor. If I remember correctly you have an earlier car, could it be that the seat was already repositioned a bit in the 74 model, or are the seats wider perhaps, so there is no room to move it over?
Cheers, Tim.
In a trip to AZ back in 05 I met some Pantera boys and ran across a real nice car with these seats that had a nice look and feel. I believe he said he paid $10K or so out of a Ferrari 355 spyder, but they were real nice, low and slid on electronic rails front and rear...danm those were nice!

AZ Pantera Ferrari 355 Seats by JanDaMan, on Flickr
AZ Pantera Ferrari 348 Seats by JanDaMan, on Flickr
AZ Pantera Ferrari 355 Seats by JanDaMan, on Flickr

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Yup- ours is a Sept '72 car with the early seats that have removeable backs. And you're right- the early seats are narrower. IMHO they are the only 'stock' seats that should be considered for upgrades or reupholstery. The later one-piece seats have a fully welded frame thats often cracked and are not adjustable, and the Euro seats are much bigger in all directions but (to me) are no more comfortable. FWIW, I once adapted a set of F-car Boxer leather seats to a '73, and that was an absolute nightmare, with multiple tweaks in many places just to get them to fit and adjust. They looked nice, were low & comfortable but the amount of work needed was prohibitive. NOT recommended!
Does 200,

I ran across a past post of yours a few months on these seats. After some research, I was told they are Ferrari 348 seats. Interestingly, I have also been told that the 348 had two different style seats depending on the year. The main difference is the width of the head rest.

I bid on some 348 seats in July that recently sold for just over $620 plus $136.31 for shipping. The guy also had the electric rails for sale (not on ebay) for $750 for the pair along with some Ferrari seat belts that he was going to throw in if I bought the rails.

The seller mentioned a tear in one seat and a missing reclining piece but could never get me a picture of either. Supposedly he tried many times but said that they would not go through either of my email accounts. Something felt a little fishy on the deal so I stopped bidding – especially since there was only one other ebayer bidding.

All the other used 348 seats I have found on ebay have been upwards of $2000 a piece. Not to mention that you may have to have them recovered to match your interior. For $4000+ for the pair they better be the most comfortable and best looking seat in the world. I do agree that they are great looking seats but unfortunately I can’t spend that much for seats.

Thanks again everyone for all the pictures and suggestions on upgrading seats.
I am going to have leather seats built to fit over the winter. So, here's the question I'm mulling over:

Do I try to build new seats using my perfectly stock '72 seats ... or do I try to find the "parts" required to build new seats for my '72?

I would HATE to hack apart my stock seats *just* to upgrade to leather. Mad

EA
I would like to thank Mooso for letting me stop by and check out his car this weekend. The family and I were headed to Golden, CO on Friday and Mooso’s house was on the way – well more on the way in my mind than my wife’s - if you know what I mean.

Mooso’s car has Mr. Mike’s Fiero seats in it and looks great. I am a little over 6’2” and was concerned that I would not fit in the car with the Fiero seats. When I first sat in it I thought that they would not work for me. However, when I adjusted myself in the car and pushed in the clutch a couple of times I sank back and down in the seat a bit. This left me about a half inch between the roof and my head.

I really like the look and feel of his seats but the one problem is that Mooso’s were mounted without rails. This would mean that my wife would not be able to drive the car since she is only 5’5”. Not that she probably will ever drive it but she would like the option. If I put the rails on I think it would raise the seat so much that my head would hit the roof.

Thanks again to Mooso for taking the time to let me crawl all over his car. His Pantera is a real eye catcher. I hope mine turns out as good as his.

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I recently bought me a pair of 70’s Recaro’s out of an Opel – pretty easy to find (at least here in Europe), and cheap (I paid these $135). My stock seats are still OK, but they don’t give me enough support to my taste, hence I wanted others. Important to me, was to find seats with an “old” design, as imo, lots of nowadays seats don’t fit design wise in a Pantera.

Pro: adjustable back, and you can “fold” them all the way forward.
Contra: they are a bit heavier, but will look whether I can make them lighter.

Now it’s just a question of having them upholstered in a way they look “stock”


As far as I've took a look at that so far, it looks to be more convenient and easy to use the stock tracks.

The Opel tracks for sure needs to be modified, and are a bit higher, whereas using the stock tracks just seems to be a matter of drilling new holes in the seats.
I stopped by a local “Hot Rod” shop recently to check out some of their seats.

They had a Corbeau "Sport" seat in stock that they let me put in my car to try it out. I forgot to bring a camera with me, so I had to use my ancient and out-of-date flip phone to take a photo. Sorry about the resolution but I guess it is better than no photo at all.

The seats height was roughly 32 inches tall and about 21 inches wide. It seemed to fit pretty well in the car, however, it felt a little thick in the back and lumbar areas. If I did not have such long legs and was not 6’2” tall the seat would probably be okay.

Unfortunately, the back of the Corbeau "Sport" seat is quite a bit thicker than the stock seat and it felt like it pushed me quite a bit towards the steering wheel when the chair was in a comfortable slightly reclined position.

So I guess that I will keep looking for other options. Any other ideas out their in the Pantera world?

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I just bought the Monte Carlo seats that classiccarseats.com have on their site.
They are, I think, from an Italian company called BF torino and the montocarlo is called "Nurnbergring R" in their catalogue here in europe.

BF torino

Very nice quality seats - I got the full leather/perforated leather version - very low seats and they fit very well inside the car. I will be adapting the original pantera sliders to them.

Kristian
Don't forget. You can actually take the existing seat and turn it into the ultimate personal fitted seat for more modern style, comfort and performance. Using the original pan guarantees a perfect fit - tracks and all! I tried a bunch of seats and always had problems with the fit.

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quote:
Originally posted by Garvino:
.....Any other ideas out their in the Pantera world?

I'm 6'1". Stock floor pans. Put in a nice set of late 80's, early 90's Porsche 911, 944, 968 seats. They have a nice period look to them with the perforated leather. Had to gut them all the way down to the frame. No sliders, no motors, but a fine seat that is comfortable for hours and hours of driving, supportive, and has a proper set back latch! I have about 1" headroom.

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Thought I would post some of what I have found while looking for seats for my car.

I was looking for something more supportive but not full on race, since my car is going to me mostly street.

I was conisdering the Corbeau TRS and CR1. The TRS was more comforatble to sit in and about 20" wide. The stock Pantera seats are about 19" wide.

I took measurements and built a little mockup to test in the car and boy they did not fir all that well, but they might have been able to work.

I then looked at Sparco's R100 and R505. They both look like nice seats, but not the lightest out there. Best of all they have a width of 19.6" and 19.2". These look to be a pretty good fit. My problem is that there are no shops or anything in my area (maybe Chicago or somewhere in NJ according to a distributor) to actually try out the fit of them and I am not going to buy them.

For now I found a set of Fiero seats that I am buying and going to use these for the planning stages. Not much of an investment if I choose to re-sell for something else. I will hold off on Mr Mikes skins until I am ready.
My seat dilemma still continues. I just looked through this entire thread again to see if I could come up with any conclusions.

After looking at all the different options I really like the looks of David B’s recovered & recut original Pantera seats, and I also like the BMW Recaro seats that David Nunn is running. I know that for the Pantera purist that this may not be their cup of tea, but to each his own.

I guess the real issue I have with the original Pantera seat is that there is no rake adjustment. My wife is only 5’5” and I would like her to be able to slide the passenger seat a little forward and recline the seat back when we take one of our long road trips to northern Wyoming (I have done the bulkhead reduction modifications so her seat will go all the way back against the firewall).

I also would like the seat to fold forward and have a “map” pocket behind it (not that I will be putting maps in it). This also would make it easier to access the front of my motor. Unless there is a modification or a conversion so my seats can easily recline and fold forward I maybe stuck trying to find a reasonable decent set of BMW’s Recaros to recover. I have been watching there prices lately and they seem a bit high on the internet.

I did have a chance to make a very fast stop by Pantera International last week when we were on a family vacation to Disneyland. They had quite a few Panteras, two Mangustas (very cool), a T-Rex, and a Pantera that some guy was having converted into a Audi R8 (I think I have some pics I can post later).

Pantera International also had a set of original Pantera seats (see pic below) that they can convert your seats into. They put in new foam, widen the bolsters, and cover them in the material of your choice. These were really nice looking seats, but once again there is no reclining or folding them forward.

Thanks to the guys at Pantera International for letting look around there shop and giving me some suggestions for my car.

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Maybe take a look at this web site. aardvarc@2002parts.com They have the BMW Recaro seats. They rebuild and cover the seats, I have a pair just like them (didn't get them there) but I did get the bottom straps there! The seats are very comfortable! There customer service was very good!
quote:
My wife is only 5’5” and I would like her to be able to slide the passenger seat a little forward and recline the seat back
you want her to able to lie down? Razzer

My $0.02 is that I loved my non-reclining orig seats in my previous car. Fit me perfectly. In my new Pantera fancy seats that recline, tilt forward etc are installed. I had to remove roll bar, some of carpet, some of seat cushion, spacers, cut and reweld all handles on the seat (tilt forward and move forward), cut off one of the wheels that adjust the recline (the inner), move the handbrake ½" inwards and reinvent a cover. And am I now more comfortable than before? No. So my advice if you want new seats, is to buy seats like somebody already has in their Pantera, so you know if they'll fit, not just take the vendors word for it.
Thanks David B, Cuvee, and Mikael for the information and suggestions.

Also I did not realize that the newer GT5 cars had seats that actually reclined and tilted forward. So far it looks like I’ll probably end up with a newer GT5 seat or a BMW Recaro seat.

Does anyone know if the mechanisms for a GT5 seat that allow it to recline and flip forward will bolt right up to a stock 74L seat and/or if they are available from any of the vendors (or does anyone have some out there in Pantera land that they want to sell)?

Once again, thanks for all the help and suggestions.
I'm in the same boat... looking for a more comfortable car seat. I contacted Stefan at ClassicCarSeats.com regarding the Monte Carlo. He sent back this image of the seats installed in a Pantera(looks great btw). He mentioned that the 2nd knob had to be eliminated on the seat and the handbrake box needed to be slimmed down in order to accommodate the seat. Anyway, if anyone has installed this seat in the car and has more details about it I would really appreciate the info. thanks
Al

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quote:
Anyway, if anyone has installed this seat in the car and has more details about it I would really appreciate the info


Glad you like my seats Big Grin
The picture is my car, it was taken when it was owned by Terry Morofsky. I think I'm a bit taller, so I had to do a lot:
quote:
I had to remove roll bar, some of carpet, some of seat cushion, spacers, cut and reweld all handles on the seat (tilt forward and move forward), cut off one of the wheels that adjust the recline (the inner), move the handbrake ½" inwards and reinvent a cover. And am I now more comfortable than before? No


Let me be more precise on why I did the various modifications:
-Due to my size: the roll bar, the seat cushion, the carpet
-Due to wanting ICE ignition box mounted on left of console and wanting a proper cover for the handbrake: inner wheel was cut off both seats. So left seat inner wheel could have been saved. Outer wheels are there still and work
-Due to not functioning handles for fore/aft movement and release of seat back: Both were so low they dug into the carpet and you couldn't get your fingers beneath them, had to use a screwdriver, so I cut and rewelded in another angle.

Now everything works, but it took a long time. Would I, knowing what I know today, buy these seats if the car had had orig seats? No. But if you have tons of money and time and need a challenge, go for it... Wink

Anything more you want to know, let me know?
Well, maybe the floorpans and inner rockers on my very early car are a little different than the later cars, but I had no problems installing my new Monte Carlo's (they are called NurnbergR from BFtorino in europe)in my pushbutton.
I used the original sliders. I order to line up the threads on the underside of the seats I had to drill new holes in one slider and fab and weld a bracked to the side of the other - that moved them outward by about an inch. No clearence problems with the handbrake box and they move freely all the way back - and forth.

I'm 188 cm (6'15")and still have about 2" clearence to the roof.

Not too good a picture of the pass side seat installed.

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Mikael, thanks for the helpful information.

Nice pictures Push 1267. The seats look really good in your car.

Stefan mentioned that the Monte Carlo seats are out of production right now since they're waiting to receive new hinges and revising the frame. They hope to be back in production in Dec. I'll order a set when the time comes and hopefully have a smooth install.If not, I'll be contacting you Mikael for some advice Smiler
I first discovered the Ferrari 355 Spider seats on this thread on page 5 (I think). Like many of you I had been searching for seats that were comfortable and fit the car. These seats are by far the best I found. Most are too big or sit too high for a car with stock floor pans but these are a very close fit. The seatbelts are integrated into the seats so I was able to cover the holes in the rockers and ordered my bulkhead reduction kit without provisions for the rear seatbelt retractors. It makes for a clean look.

I wanted to keep the ability to slide the seats back and forth so sliders were required. The Ferrari sliders are powered and I didn't see the point so I saved some money knowing whatever I used would require modifing. Sparco double locking sliders seem to be the best option. I bought 3 sets of sliders because I needed extra material to extend them. In speaking with Dennis Quella he recommended angling the seats slightly inward towards the pedals and foot well on the passanger side to make the car more comfortable. After sitting in the seats and moving them around in the car I opted to try angling them. It's hardly noticable but it does make a difference.

Here's a look at the process:













I had to cut out the factory spacers to lower the sliders as much as possible.




I had to use flat top countersunk allen bolts to clear the sliders.










One owner brought me an unusual combination- Ferrari Boxer seats and a '73 Pantera. Those things were about the same "fit" as Mikael found. I wound up modifying pretty much everything in the car to accomodate them, including contour-cutting the single rake-adjust knobs, swapping the stock Pantera seat belt hex head bolts for countersunk flathead bolts, narrowed e-brake box and on and on... Then I found that Ferrari seats of that era do not use wheels in the tracks- they use flat polyethylene slider-pads.... which stick if the rails are not perfectly flat with someone in the seat. The adjuster levers also needed contouring to not dig into the floor mats. When finally done, to me they were not as comfortable as my reupholstered stock seats. Remember, most used seats available on the market were removed from that car for something better....
As Jack (Bosswrench) already pointed out, reupholstered stock seats can be quite comfortable. So save yourself a ton of time, effort and re-engineering to make something that doesn't belong fit, and spend that same money (or less) on a quality re-upholstery of your stock seats. Your bottom and your wallet will thank you!
quote:
I have a very nice stock set....just looking for a different/custom look. If the stang seats don't work...they will likely be going in.

On the subject of seats, I have '69 Mach 1 seats in my 66 GT fastback - they provide a lot more support than the original Mustang low-backs and look like they belong.
The stock seats fit into the car the best. The original vinyl upholstery is actually what makes them uncomfortable although thinking about it, the Euro cars with the leather in the same pattern are just as uncomfortable. Maybe it's just the original foam that is the problem? I don't know?

The ones that Hall does with leather and new foam make them very comfortable.

The Pantera cabin is so tight that virtually any seat other than the stock one causes an issues in another place.

The way you have to slide in and out, the seats with the side bolsters just make it more difficult, impossible to move your hips which you need to do and the high backs with the built in head rests block your view.

It is amazing how this car just punishes certain body types. If you are built like an NFL middle linebacker, the soft stock seats are by far the best fit but if you start to play with lowered floor pans and pedal spacing the couple of inches here and there are amazing. In my case I have an adjustable steering wheel height on the column and a quick release steering wheel hub too.

Those "little" changes transform the cabin immensely but then gives you other seat options.

In fact you can actually put a real non-deformed human in the passenger seat if you go to a flat or reduced engine bubble.

Why those weren't demanded by Ford back when is beyond me. Seems like some kind of a 'pay back' thing that was going on? Did they loose in soccer or something?

My advice would be to stick to a plan rather than try alternatives constantly.

I would also say that 'race seats' are not the way to go in this car for the street.
I was a passenger in a Mercedes SLK 230 recently. I thought the seats might make for good transplants for the Pantera. They are thin, narrow, sturdy, well padded, trimmed in leather, they have side bolsters, and they have adjustable head rests.

The mounting base may be a little high, hard to tell unless you try fitting one in the Pantera. I don't know how easily they separate from the Mercedes mounting base either, as its hidden behind decorative plastic.

Food for thought however.

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Italian-S, I worked on a '73 Pantera that came with Ferrari Boxer seats but not installed. Worst setup I've ever gotten snagged in. They are too wide- enough that I had to remove the stock seat belts, retractors and plates in the rockers and substitute 3" 'racing' belts which were already sort-of-installed. The setup obsoleted the stock shoulder harnesses but Hall over-the-shoulder harnesses were included. The attach bar did not fit & the special stock bolts were missing..... I made thin sheet metal covers for the rocker panels & used flat-head metric screws for clearance. The recliner knobs still interfered so they needed to be removed and a large bevel cut on each knob's periphery to clear stock rocker panel upholstery. The fore-&-aft adjusters were at floor-mat height so they needed careful S-bending to clear stock mats, and since F-cars do not use rollers in their adjustment rails but flat poly sliders, actually moving the seats back & forth was still a two-person effort with someone in a seat.

If I'd had ANY other seats available, I would have gladly used them & junked these F-car seats. About the only good thing was, they were high quality leather.... Maybe Daytona seats are narrower & would work better but I would NOT recommend early Ferrari seats like this car had under any circumstances, unless you plan on a pro totally reupholstering the car. Measure VERY carefully- Pantera cabins are narrow!
Can someone tell me if these are the original seat track style?

This is on a Recaro, which I don't like, and want to put in a set of Herrig's Corvette seats.....but I don't like those in cloth....!

BUT it would appear to me that the flat stock that is on this track is not stock?????

The seats move like poooo! How to fix? Properly....don't need electric.....

Ciao!
Steve

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In a Pantera, the best seat to use IS a PANTERA seat. The weakness of them is the STOCK track system.

If your car is a one person driver car then even those are sufficient.

IF you happen to have lowered floor pans, I would recommend using Corvette power seat platforms. They will give you the simple option of moving around on long trips.

It would seem though that the strength of this masochistic tendency of some owners to deny these simple facts, should be left to run it's course in order to prevent violent retaliation against innocents and foster public safety.

It just seems so obvious to me though that the Pantera at times seems to be a poster child for contraries and anti-establishment themes? It's like a magnet for them? Yikes! Eeker
Doug,

I would tend to agree with you!

In my case....I got a car....with Recaros in the car, Corvette seats outtada car, and no Pantera seats......!

There are a LOT of missing parts that I would have liked to have seen come with the car............Frowner

Ciao!
Steve
You can get a nice set from Hall. Sell the other seats. Sometimes the obvious answer IS the correct one.

Neither Recaros or Corvette seats are going to raise either the comfort level, the function or the resale value. Quite the contrary.

There is always going to be someone who needs to wear a plaid flannel suit to a black tie function. I get that...but why?
I have a set Porsche 996 turbo (911) power seats. I tried to put one in my Pantera for kicks and giggles since I had them out of my 911 for some interior upgrades.

It looked good but would not work for me without dropped floor pans. My head hit the headliner.

I am sure the electric portion of the seats eats up a lot of height space. I will throw it back in and snap a photo the next time I make it to my shop.

Devin
Thanks.
I'm guessing that i'm headed for dropped pans.
I will probably strip the electric mechanicals out so I can sit it as low as possible.

quote:
Originally posted by Garvino:
I have a set Porsche 996 turbo (911) power seats. I tried to put one in my Pantera for kicks and giggles since I had them out of my 911 for some interior upgrades.

It looked good but would not work for me without dropped floor pans. My head hit the headliner.

I am sure the electric portion of the seats eats up a lot of height space. I will throw it back in and snap a photo the next time I make it to my shop.

Devin
Steve, the 'Vette seats and the Recaros-by-Porsche are good trading material to those who are never satisfied. All the vendors will be interested in swapping for stock.

#2- You do NOT want the '73-'74 seats intended for your Pantera. The bases & backs are welded into one piece and nearly always crack the frames after a few years. '71-'72 seats with removable backs are stronger and give you the option of adjusting back-rake on the road if desired with 5 minutes of hacksaw work.

Suggestion- both you & Linda are short so your Recaros should work fine; adjust rake to taste with spacers under the ends of the adjusting tracks. Save the new-seat money to spend somewhere else- god knows you will find plenty of other stuff you need worse...
Porsche 996 (911) turbo seats - power. This seat is slid forward and raked back so that I could sit in it. However, in this position I feel really close to the dash.

Likewise, if I move the base of the seat towards the fire wall, giving me more leg room, then my head hit the roof. I would be interested to see if a set of non-powered 911 seats would fit.

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The power platforms seem to vary on how much room they take up. 1" is about the minimum and the trucks are way up there.

The Corvette power platforms are about the most compact that you can find off of the shelf.

I used Ford Taurus platforms which I thought were more compact BUT I did do a lot of cutting and refitting of them to the new floor pan pattern. They were not just a simple bolt in.


I can't speak for the Porches, but my Audi TT has power platforms and the car has a lot of head room built into it.



I'm using Hall's Pantera seats with 2" lowered floor pans. If anything, there is too much room.

The saving grace is that these platforms also provide for raising or lowering the seat as well as forward/rearward, rake adjustment and power lumbar adjustment.

Lots of people ignore these as an option because they are the only one who drives the car BUT the cabin of the Pantera is tight. If you are going to drive it for more than a couple of hours it's nice to be able to readjust yourself every so often effortlessly. The power platforms allow this to happen.



I have Hall's recovered Pantera seats that they supply with a manually inflatable lumbar support. It is easily attached to the power lumbar pump in the seat rail assembly.

I'm not sure why so many folks need to go through this, "what seat will fit in the car" deal at all?

Put a Pantera seat in and the thing fits besides Halls being covered in a nice leather and they are very comfortable as well as opposed to the rock hard original vinyl covers and foams?

In any case, I do not think there is enough head room in the car to use a power seat platform without lowering the floor pans? That I never tried.

Some time after 1975, Detomaso installed lowered pans in all of the cars as a matter of course. It's just the USA cars that are cramped for head room.
Hi Craig, I have a customer that wants different seats in an early car. We've used the Pontiac Fiero seat recovered in logo material, but having trouble finding Fiero seats as of late. My customer has had hip surgery. He has difficulty getting into driving position, a very slow process. What he really needs is an effective seat back that allows him to get his back where it needs to be, and of course a seat with tracks [which Fiero does not allow] we bolt 'em to the floor. Do you think your seats would fit the bill? What model are they?? Thanks much.



quote:
Originally posted by CraigCline:
Hi All,

Here's another set of old Recaro seats. They've been in my Pantera since the mid 80's, and just reupholstered in leather.

Craig Cline
Sharkey,
I have recently purchased and re-upholstered a set of C-4 Corvette seats which are readily available on ebay. They fit in the Pantera and when I get the car back next week, I can send pictures of them in the car. Attached are what they look like out of the car after the upholstery was done in black leather with red diamond stitching.

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When there is somebody into Europe who want those Fiero seats , I have a set whit the DT logo .
Seats are pulled out of Pantera # 4737.

Trade for other Pantera seats or parts is possible

I am located near Amsterdam , The Netherlands
Simon.
quote:
Originally posted by tberg:
Sharkey,
I have recently purchased and re-upholstered a set of C-4 Corvette seats which are readily available on ebay. They fit in the Pantera and when I get the car back next week, I can send pictures of them in the car. Attached are what they look like out of the car after the upholstery was done in black leather with red diamond stitching.

Oh good, thkx
I'm in the same boat, I have the stock seats which I like because they are period correct. There is no ass cushion left which actually is good for me since I'm 6'2 and its enabled me to fit. The downside is that after an hour of driving its uncomfortable. I need something that sits very low and also tucks right up against the firewall, so my butt can slide forward and knees are just bent more.

The C4 seats are really nice, I believe I sat in Gary Herrig's car before he sold it, but I was pretty squashed as there was a lot more cushion.

I'm debating some Kirkey Classic Buckets with the pseudo leather button on upholstery at this point. That way I can add cushioning as I see fit and alter the layback degree.

I can't tell, but this looks like a stock seat re-uphostered, but the headrest removed looks like more clearance to move the seat back ultimately.

Just a quick FWI. C4 and Fiero seats have the same cushion height, width and profile. At 6'2" you will be crouching forward on the seat which puts your knees high and close to the steering wheel.

If you want comfort at your height in a Pantera, you'll need to move the pedals forward and drop the floor pans. That will give you the space needed for seats that will allow you to drive farther that around the corner before your butt falls asleep.

The other option is to pull the seat spacer, pull the seat tracks and mount the seat direct to the floor. It's not a great solution, but will help. If you mount direct, I recommend installing some type of a skid plate in front of the bolts so the heads will not catch anything that might go under the car. If a bolt head catches the right debris, it can rip it right out of the seat.
GTS Classics (classiccarseats.com) have some nice seats that are very thin on the bottom and look period correct.

Mind you, at 6'2", I don't think you'll be truly comfortable unless you do as Kirk suggests; lowering the floor pans and spacing the pedal box forward.

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Thanks for the advice you guys. I'll take a look at how involved it would be to space the pedal box forward. I'll probably delay the floor pan drop, but may be in the books too after the car is back together. I believe most of the back soreness was the result of leaning back at an incline not at the same degree as the seat, so inherently I had no back support. The firewall/seat is inclined at 10 degrees correct? I didn't mind scrunching my legs together by scooting my butt forward, it was the prolonged lack of back lumbar support.

I may be in a better boat if I can just angle the seat correctly as low as possibleand do what you suggested Kirk and just bolt it directly to the floor and remove the rails altogether. It will just be a little more difficult to finagle in. I'll look at the skidplate idea or at the very least a beveled head or something to sink it in more flush.

Those seats are nice David, I want to say I've run across those before. Definitely on the pricey side, but whats your back worth Smiler Do you know anyone with those seats installed?

Seems like every once in awhile I read about guys getting out of these cars mostly because of back issues as they get older. So I should probably put some attention into a solution now.

This Bride Histrix looks interesting as well. Maybe not everyones cup o tea Smiler





Also anyone know who makes this seat? This somewhat positions you in a better position I would think.

The best seat to use in a Pantera is a Pantera seat. That's why they were made for the car.

The original upholstery is the main culprit to them though. It made them hard and somewhat non conforming.

What Hall did with recontouring them into the later 80's configuration makes them 1000% more comfortable.

I have lowered floor pans and the pedal assembly spaced 1-1/2" forward. I'm 6'2".

My pans are dropped 2". I had to space the seat up so I could see over the dash.

I can virtually recline and added power seat platforms which help with the height adjustments as well as seating position.

If you asked me, I'd tell you to do all this and forget about searching endlessly.

The best fitting aftermarket seat that I experienced is the Scheel but that hasn't been made in 20 years.

The Hall seat is better.
Those are the original seats shown on the release of the car in Italy.
quote:
Originally posted by Hustler:
Thanks for the advice you guys. I'll take a look at how involved it would be to space the pedal box forward. I'll probably delay the floor pan drop, but may be in the books too after the car is back together. I believe most of the back soreness was the result of leaning back at an incline not at the same degree as the seat, so inherently I had no back support. The firewall/seat is inclined at 10 degrees correct? I didn't mind scrunching my legs together by scooting my butt forward, it was the prolonged lack of back lumbar support.

I may be in a better boat if I can just angle the seat correctly as low as possibleand do what you suggested Kirk and just bolt it directly to the floor and remove the rails altogether. It will just be a little more difficult to finagle in. I'll look at the skidplate idea or at the very least a beveled head or something to sink it in more flush.

Those seats are nice David, I want to say I've run across those before. Definitely on the pricey side, but whats your back worth Smiler Do you know anyone with those seats installed?

Seems like every once in awhile I read about guys getting out of these cars mostly because of back issues as they get older. So I should probably put some attention into a solution now.

This Bride Histrix looks interesting as well. Maybe not everyones cup o tea Smiler





Also anyone know who makes this seat? This somewhat positions you in a better position I would think.

The design team at Ghia (under Tjaarda) designed these seats. The seats were their solution for the Mangusta's lack of head room and leg room, rather than making the Pantera taller or longer. By reclining the seat backs the front of the seat cushion is kicked-up higher. This supports the thighs and bends the knees, thus creating legroom and improving comfort at the same time. Reclining the seat puts the driver in a reclined position and creates headroom.

Tom told me the foam blocks compressed and the seating became uncomfortable after about 20 minutes of driving. The shells were also a bit too narrow or too tall for those wide in the hip region. Rather than spending time developing the seats, Ford chose an alternative seat, the uncomfortable seats we all know and many of us put-up-with. The design team's solution for head room and leg room was thus defeated, and the Pantera isn't much better (if at all) than the Mangusta in that department.

The shells for these seats became the racing seats installed in Group 4 Panteras, optional in Group 3 and GTS Panteras.

I'm 6'2". I installed longer bolts and stacks of washers where the front seat tracks bolt to the floor pans, thus reclining the seat backs and raising the fronts of the seat cushion. It did indeed create headroom, leg room, and improve comfort. I can drive the Pantera for hours and arrive at my destination relaxed, with less fatigue than what I've experienced in cars with far more expensive seating.

I don't know if it creates enough headroom for 6'2" AND a helmet ... but for the price of two bolts and a stack of washers its cheap enough to experiment. I'd also recommend experimenting with this to anyone who finds the OEM seating position uncomfortable, whether or not you need head room or leg room. Start by raising the front seat track by 1", then increase the stack in 1/4" increments until you find the height you like best (if at all).

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I had forgotten about the prototype seat story. Tom also said they were going to try a higher density of foam that was molded with shape but was overruled.

The spacer issue is another solution I used on all of the AmeriSport GT5-S cars because the pans were dropped flat and is you did not space the front of the seats, it felt like you were slipping forward--HORRIBLE!

Removing the rear spacers and adding them to the fronts will help allot---the later car spacers were welded in---earlier one were aluminum blocks. If you have an later car with the longer seat tracks, you could replace them with the shorter tracks and move the front mounting holes in the shorter tracks to the longer track forward mounting position. Then re-drill the rear mount holes without any spacers spacer which would also drop the back of the seat. The bottom of the seat when all the way back will be touching the floor using this approach and will give you the max head space height without cutting the car.
On the C4 seats, you can gain headroom by removing the wire basket that supports the foam on the lower seat pad.

This can be done without removing any of the seat covering or the foam, from underneath the seat (before mounting it, of course).

Rocky

PS - I like those Bride seats - a throwback to the original prototype design!
quote:
Originally posted by Rocky:
On the C4 seats, you can gain headroom by removing the wire basket that supports the foam on the lower seat pad.

This can be done without removing any of the seat covering or the foam, from underneath the seat (before mounting it, of course).

Rocky

PS - I like those Bride seats - a throwback to the original prototype design!


Very similar and in the same family as what the GT40 seating position was.

The most recent production car that comes to my mind with this thinking is the Lotus cars.

I want to see what Alfa did with the 4c seats also but those cars are scarce to the dealers and seem to be allocated to them?
I'm leaning toward the kirkey 41v and the largest bucket they have which is 18" at the hip for the side bolsters. Figure I can add foam cushioning to tighten the side bolstering and back cushioning if I go too large. The fixed brackets will allow me to recline them to the degree I want for headroom and the slim back profile will allow me to scoot it way back to the firewall and put it practically on the floor.

Can someone provide me with center to center bolt measurements from front to back and side to side for the factory floor/slider mounting bracket holes? Is this documented anywhere? Would save me a 2 hour drive.
Seats with any kind of sidebolsters in a Pantera are not easy to live with.

It isn't that once you are in they are much of a problem but getting in and out combined with the deep footwells and the proximity of the steering wheel are for me are just a "bridge to far".

You don't really need side bolsters in a Pantera because the car itself is going to hold you in place. Not unless you are 100 pounds and 5 foot tall.

You are really creating an "infant car seat" for adults with it.

I stand with my original combination of the Hall modified seat on the early hinged back design, lowered pans, pedals moved forward, power seat platforms, quick release steering wheel and height adjustable column.

That all didn't happen over night. I understand why there is just so much resistance to it by other owners, but just changing to the one "magic seat" isn't going to do it.

Putting in power seat platforms are going to give you the flexibility of tilt and height adjustments that you are looking for. It gives you the ability also to lower the seat enough to wear a helmet as well on track day without creating additional drama.

Those platforms are adjustable fore/aft, up/down, tilt forward/tilt backwards.

Corvette units are the easiest to find and are going to match up to just about any seat you decide on.

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