Sticky #7: Tires for OEM 15 inch wheels

BFG Radial TA's are a popular alternative. Decent grip, they have the stock white letter look and they are pretty cheep. They come in a lot of sizes and are pretty popluar with the vintage car guys. Just don't track them...they don't have a very high speed rating.

Also, you can fit bigger then a 215 on the rear 8inch.
BFG does look pretty good. I like the white letters as they closely resemble the Arrivas which I find attractive on the Pantera. Just got my car and they have 295/50's on the rear. The side walls are sunken, and they look bad. What is the widest tire I can use on the 15" wheel and not have sunken sidewalls? They list 215, 225, 235, and so on. Don't know if they are REALLY available though.

SOURCING TIRES

Tires for the original 15" Campagnolo wheels can be sourced from "classic tire" suppliers or sourced from "contemporary tire" suppliers.

Re-issues of classic tires are "reproductions" in appearance and size, but they are constructed using modern rubber compounds and modern construction techniques. They "look" like the classic tire they are emulating in sidewall design and tread pattern, they are available in the right size for your car, but they are thoroughly modern in terms of performance.

Longstone Classic Tyres of Bawtry, South Yorkshire, England, is the only "supplier" of reproduction tires who has shown an interest in our classic Italian cars. Longstone's US distributor is Lucas Classic Tires of Long Beach, California. Classic tires of the proper size for some applications are available from Pirelli, Michelin, and Avon.

Longstone Classic Tyres

Lucas Classic Tires

Avon Tires are also available in the US via Frisby Performance Tire (Park City Illinois), Roger Krause Racing (Castro Valley California), SascoSports (Alton Virginia), or Sierra Tire (Henderson Nevada).

The availability of contemporary tires for 15” wheels has been dwindling over the last couple of decades; especially for tires having a speed rating of V (or higher). The options in selecting the same make and model tires in the front as you select for the rear are highly limited.

Here are two good internet sites for checking-out what's available amongst "contemporary" tires, they both allow you to search by size for "sets" of tires wherein the front tires and rear tires are a different size:

Tire Rack.com/

On Line Tires.com/


CARING FOR MAGNESIUM WHEELS

The purpose behind using 15 inch tires is of course to continue using the factory 15 inch wheels. So lets touch on care of magnesium wheels for a moment.

If your Pantera's magnesium wheels have never been serviced (most haven't) they should be serviced. The older the Pantera is, or the more miles it has on it, the more important this is:

  • The wheels should be visually inspected for curb-rash damage and damage from crimp-on balancing weights. If the wheels were holding air pressure and there is no visibly "severe" damage, its OK to proceed.
  • If one or more of the wheels aren't holding air pressure, or if you want to be more thorough, the wheels should be tested for cracks and porosity. But there are few places that can repair magnesium wheels, so unless you have such a place near you, you'll have to ship them somewhere for repair. Pantera Parts Connection of Reno Nevada can provide full service of the wheels, including repairing damage, cracking, and porosity.
  • At this point you must decide whether or not to remove the OEM paint finish prior to annealing the wheels. Magnesium wheels have a layer of zinc chromate below the primer and top coats of paint. This chromate conversion coating is not anti corrosion protection ... it provides a finish that primer paint can adhere to. If you remove this chromate coating it must be replaced. If you don't chromate the magnesium before painting you can guarantee that your beautiful paint finish will lift off some time in the future. If you choose to leave the OEM paint on the wheel then remove the decals, balance weights, adhesives, clean-off all dirt, brake dust, and grease. The paint shall turn brown in color during the annealing process. If you choose to remove the OEM paint then do so employing a gentle blasting process such as plastic beads, walnut shells, etc.
  • Anneal the wheels at 375°F for one full hour after being brought to that temperature, then cool the wheels as slowly as possible (i.e. turn the oven off, but leave the oven door closed, and let the oven slowly cool until it reaches room temperature).
  • if the wheels were annealed without removing the OEM paint then after annealing prepare the OEM painted surfaces to make the paint suitable as a "base coat" for the new paint, using caution to remove as little paint as possible and to avoid exposing bare metal. The best surface prep where bare metal has been exposed is Dow 1. You just wipe the Dow 1 on and leave it on for 3 minutes. The exposed Magnesium should at this point change to a rich brown or gold color. Then wash off the Dow 1 with clean tap water.
  • If the paint and primer were removed prior to annealing then clean the bare magnesium after annealing with Dow 19 and a Faber Castell fiber glass tipped pen (available from arts supply shops). These pens are for use in place of a scotch bright cleaning pad. The Dow 19 will also lightly chromate the surface as it cleans. You may see the surface turn slightly brown or gold. It is essential that you remove EVERY TRACE of corrosion before moving on to the final steps (prime and paint).
  • Instead of Dow 19 a fresh coat of  zinc-chromate primer can be applied, if you can find it. Some say zinc-phosphate can be employed as a substitute for  zinc-chromate, I have not verified this. When substituting zinc chromate it is important that the substitute shall provide a coating that primer paint can adhere to.
  • The final steps are to prime and paint the wheels. DO NOT SAND the chromate surface prior to painting. Wipe off finger print oil, etc. with a professional auto painters grade wax and grease remover. Then prime and seal with 2 part epoxy primer. Modern primers are most likely chromate free, but if you can find a primer with chromate in it so much the betterAltex AltraBond 3094 is a chromate free etching primer used and certified by the aerospace industry for priming magnesium parts.   

OEM TIRE SETS


Tire Set 1 | 1971-1972 | 185/70VR15 + 215/70VR15 
Push Button, Pre-L, Early GTS, Early Group 3
Chassis number 1001 through 4268

This set is available in Michelin XWX re-issues. There is little demand for this size however.

Most owners of the earliest Panteras opt for tires in the sizes of tire set 2 or tire set 3; which are by far the two most popular and therefore most common tire sets for narrow body Panteras.


Tire Set 2 | 1972½ -1977 | 205/60VR15 + 255/60VR15 
Pantera L, GTS, Group 3
Chassis number 4269 through 7554, and 9001 through 9099

This set is available in BF Goodrich Radial T/A (speed rated S).

205/60VR15 tires (V speed rating) were original equipment on 1987 - 1995 Acura Legends, various 1986 - 1994 Audis, 1995 - 1997 Honda Accords, and 1986 - 1991 Mazda RX-7s. Kumho and Pantera Tire currently manufacture 205/60VR15 tires. There are probably others I haven't found.

The 255/60R15 is also available in Pirelli CN12 re-issues (speed rated W). Alternatives to the 255/60R15 rear tires are tires sized 275/55R15. The Avon CR6ZZ "classic" street legal radial racing tire is available in this size.

Combining one of the 205/60VR15 front tires with the Pirelli Cinturato CN12 or the Avon CR6ZZ rear tire would result in a "mixed" set of tires speed rated V (higher than a set of Radial T/As).


Tire Set 3 | 1978-1984 | 225/50VR15 + 285/50VR15 
Late Model GTS, Late Model Group 3
Chassis number 9100 through 9374

The Front is available in Pirelli P7 re-issues and in Pirelli P-Zero System.

THE REAR IS NOT AVAILABLE ANYWHERE.

Dougal Cawley of Longstone Classic Tyres says "I am in talks with Pirelli about the 285/50R15 size tire, but it is not as yet set in production. It will take time. Please be patient." By taking time, he means "years".

The most common substitute tires for the 285/50VR15 tire are in the size of 295/50R15 (speed rated S). There are about 5 manufacturers supplying tires in this size: BF Goodrich, Cooper, Hankook, Milestar and Mastercraft. The Avon CR6ZZ "classic" street legal radial racing tire is also available in this size, but not in 225/50R15 for the front.

A great number of owners of 1971-1977 Panteras retro-fitted their Panteras with factory 10x15 rear wheels, and moved the 8x15 rear wheels to the front position, in order to accommodate the tires of set 3. Every 10x15 wheel that De Tomaso had stocked, at least a cargo container full of them, sold-out long ago. The 10x15 wheel remains popular even though the proper tire hasn't been available for years. When a used set of 10x15 wheels comes-up for sale, they sell quickly at top dollar prices. There are not one but two aftermarket companies manufacturing this wheel still today (Roin and Marvic). I know Pantera owners who have purchased second Panteras simply because the second Pantera was equipped with this size rear wheels. They removed the 10x15 wheels, replaced them with 8x15 wheels, and placed the second Pantera up for sale again. The point is that this is a very popular tire set amongst Pantera owners. There are a far greater number of Panteras set-up to use tires in the sizes of tire set 3 than production numbers would indicate.


Tire Set 4 | 1978-1990 | 285/40VR15 + 345/35VR15 
Wide Bodies: GT4, GT5, GT5-S
Chassis number 9100 through 9374, and 9375 through 9562

This set is available in Pirelli P7 re-issues.
The rear tire is also available in Pirelli P-Zero System


Tire Set 5 | 1990-1993 | 235/45ZR17 + 335/35ZR17 
Wide Body: Pantera Si
Chassis number 9601 through 9641

This tire set is available from 2 manufacturers, but it is not available in the same model tire for front and rear.

Michelin: Pilot Sport 4S front + Pilot Sport PS2 rear
Pirelli.: P-Zero Nero GT front + P-Zero System rear


Two Non OEM Options:


Historic: Back in the 1990s owners of "Pre-1978" Panteras (approximately 6,654 Panteras) wishing to upgrade to low profile tires could "Plus 1" or "Plus 3" the tires for their Pantera by choosing Pirelli P7s in in the sizes of 225/55VR15 on the front and 275/55VR15 on the rear. The 225/55VR15 front tire was optional equipment on the 1992 through 1997 BMW three series, the 275/55VR15 rear tire was standard equipment on the Bentley Turbo R, 1985 through 1992. This was a bitchen tire set for the Pantera while it lasted. These tires aren't available today, so I'm mentioning this tire set more as a bit of historic information rather than an option available to us today. If "high quality - speed rated - passenger car tires" should ever become available in these sizes again such a tire set would become my personal preference. But I'm not hopeful that shall ever happen.

Contemporary: This option IS available today. Purchase a pair of reproduction wheels from Roin Technology directly or via Mr.Fiat, but rather than 10x15 order 10x17 instead (I'd recommend 13mm positive offset). Mount 225/50ZR15 Pirelli P-Zero System tires on the OEM 7x15 front wheels, and mount 285/40ZR17 Pirelli P-Zero System tires on the new rear wheels. The fender openings are 2 inches different in diameter front to rear, and the tires are a bit more than 2 inches different in diameter front to rear. The 2 inch difference in wheel diameter emphasizes this difference, it is quite dramatic looking. The sidewalls of the rear tires are 1 inch shorter for better handling too. The tire set is contemporary rather than a re-issue, and the sizes are readily available. AND it looks factory original.

-G
.

BFG T/As are rated at 106 mph and available in 215 and 255/60x15. I have used these tires on my GT6 and TR8. Perfectly good tires in just about any weather conditions one might want to drive a Pantera in. I guess if one wants to storm around at higher speeds, they can a) enjoy spending some insurance, ticket, and legal fee money Big Grin , and b) upgrade to larger everything thing to handle those speeds well north of 100mph !!!!
Merging threads

quote:
Originally posted by 22 Racer:
Recently purchased a 72 Pantera with the old Pirelli tires on the original 15" Campy's. Can't find a manufacture that makes a tire for both the front and rear. Help! Can anyone provide information for my dilemma? Thanks
BTW: the rears are not the 10" width.
I think they will be OK.

The things to be concerned about are total width and rolling diameter. Under 26" dia. seems to work best with minimal rubbing. There may be some other posts around here with size options and opinions, but that's the size I'd pick if you're using 10" rear and 8" fronts. For 7" fronts maybe the 215 or even 205 might be a better fit. It depends what you're running now and if any rubbing is occurring at full steering lock.

Good luck!
Mark
You're right about the sizes Bud but if you know of any manufacturer making BOTH front and rear tires in the optimum sizes, please share because I couldn't find anything but the odd loose tire on eBay. The 60 series fronts are a bit tall, but if you go with the narrower ones the height shrinks as well. The 205's are only 24.7" tall.

Mark
You need to be careful with the age of these tires. BFG's and Pirelli's start to crack through the outer treads somewhere around three years of age.

The BFG's in particular will throw chunks of tread out like the retreads used to, leaving you to look at just the fiber from the carcass.

The Pirelli's crack like this too between the tread blocks.

One of the memebers here in Europe bought a Pirelli tire like this, NOS, and it failed within 30 or 40 miles.

This considered, what is the point in looking for NOS tires that are more then a year old from manufacture regardless of whether or not they are used or not?

Try the Mickey Thompson LT rear tires. There are more then a few 225-vr50-15 tires still made.

You just are not going to find a matching set, front-back, in 15".

Even Hoosier no longer makes them.
quote:
Originally posted by 22 Racer:
Recently purchased a 72 Pantera with the old Pirelli tires on the original 15" Campy's. Can't find a manufacture that makes a tire for both the front and rear. Help! Can anyone provide information for my dilemma? Thanks
BTW: the rears are not the 10" width.


I have a new, never mounted, set of 295/50-15" Toyo Proxes ST's available. The pic shows what the identical set looked like on #5606 which I sold last year. My rears were 10" wide, but the tires fit fine on 8" wide rear wheels. These are used in conjunction with Toyo Proxes 4's on the front as they have a similar tread pattern. I wrapped them up when new and they have been stored properly.

They cost me $400 including shipping from the East Coast, so that is my asking price.

FYI-the manufacturing date was the 12th week of 2007.

I am located in the northern San Diego area.

I have 305/50/15 on th rear of my car ....BF Goodrich EURO TA's and boy they fit mighty fine on the rear 15 x 10 ... if they remade them I would be a happy man. I think I'm going to lean towards what Mickey Thompson has for drag radial when the time come to replace them.

Ron
These are the best fit now for the rear. Mickey Thompson 26-12-15. Built for an 8-10 inch rim.

The BFG 295-50-15 is also a good fit and easy to get. It only has an S rating though. You can get the bigger tire in, the 305 Euro T/A but they were discontinued a while ago.

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Still are. I had my RWL Dunlops installed white-lettering in and then used tire paint over the letters so you wouldn't see it from the "inside" (it looks odd to see white letters from the insides).

In case anyone is tempted, don't try to remove the white lettering because it's a layer of white rubber and you can easily wreck a tire cutting/sanding it off.

Mark
Technically you are correct. Those tires exist. At $787 each for the rears, there are better solutions.

That tire also requires a wider rim then a 10" AND is really too short (outside diameter) for the car.

...in my opinion.

Use the Mickey Thompson in the rear. At $250 each, how can you go wrong?
... i guess for all the original muscle cars were going to have to ride on the rims when the 15's wear out ? Or drive competition tires on the street ... seems like there are more of a selection on comp tires ...where you would think there is less of a demand ?
The only issue for me at the moment is that I am not ready to put tires on it for the fall. Probably yes in the spring though.

I don't want to buy a set of tires now and have the clock ticking on the ageing of the rubber over the winter.

The other issue is that there is not a matching set front to back, which personally doesn't bother me, and the concern is that since the 15" are going the ways of the Dodo birds, the Michey Thompson may get discontinued also.

I'm not sure I want to run comp tires on the street. The rubber compounds are too sensative to temperature and as a result could be letheal until the warm up. How do you warm up a race tire when it is 20 degrees F?
The decimal point has got to be in the wrong place? $60 is more like it. These will likely fail while mounting them up.

Pirelli P7's age rather rapidly. If you don't use them, you loose them. It doesn't matter how you stored them. Five years old is about the safe limit of use. The thicker the tread, the quicker the deterioration.

If you shoot them with Armorall, that makes the rubber dry out and crack faster.

They dry any split between the treads. I've had chunks of tread not only separate but come off and leave just the cords.

But yes, Pirelli should make some more new ones. BFG Comp T/A's are as good and they should make some more 15" also.

There is no one left in the world who drives on 15" rims? Wow. Time has for sure passed me by?
price adjusted down, I don't know what they are worth? the Countach crowd pays up pretty well for those 'standard' fronts, so I thought of them. They don't see too many this new.

Like I said, they are Pantera perfect for 8's and 10's and many are driving on updated bigger wheelsets and may want a 'SHOW' set of wheels/tires - extra, I know I would (don't currently own a Pantera)
Understood. You can always lower the price. Hard to raise it.

They are actually a little small for a Pantera. 305 rear, 235 front would be more desirable.

You are talking about upgrading a 71 Pantera with stock tires. 235 rear, 185 fronts.

Good luck with the auction.
...while still on the subject of 15" tires, here are some of my others available right now, NOS, priced LOW, flame away!

they are an odd size, so might not work for anybody, but good tires that MIGHT work for somebody! here, have a look

http://www.ebay.com/itm/330807...id=p3984.m1423.l2649

I am also offering a set of Dunlop vintage racing tires (remakes), interesting exact tires were on the racing Pantera that sold for $160K on eBay the other day...I added this photo of the fronts and rears sandwiching a 305/50/15 euro ta so you can see I did my research...wanted tires that filled the wheel wells JUST RIGHT on the Mangusta...(insert Pantera here). I paid close to $3,000. new was gonna run my Mangusta on em, and ended up NOT shipping them with the car/wheels, so lemme know if these interest anybody as well, presently offered with NOS Mangusta wheels on eBay that don't seem to be sought after right now, so when auction expires, contact me about these or make an $offer if they go unsold
quote:
The 60 series fronts are a bit tall, but if you go with the narrower ones the height shrinks as well. The 205's are only 24.7" tall.

FWIW, I used to have 205/50-15 tires on the front of my Pantera, then switched to the 225/50-15 Toyo Proxes 4 on the fronts. Diameters of the two tires was almost identical, with the 205 BFG's maybe filling the wheel well slightly more. Just a data point to consider.
I calmly re-read the comments about the P7 tires and I had another deep examination of them, and all I gotta say is they are pretty freakin amazing. Those comments about brittle collapsing material does not apply to this extremely nice set. They came right off the rims - I just had em removed. I have no doubt they would still perform, but as I've stated clearly everywhere, they are best for show for every reason. Just don't want people thinking they are garbage, again a pattern around here when I've offered up some truly quality nice stuff and people instantly gang trash it, and question validity of statements, like a fool is posting up junk?? Stop it Smiler I've got some nice stuff, and don't want enthusiasts to miss out if you are looking for example - for tires for 15" campy's - I didn't start this thread, just answered the call. Look at my garage photo, I've got lots of GREAT tires for 15" campy's...those are all 15" tires in that photo and they are all good stuff! FYI - the euro ta set 305/50 and 225/50 were smartly snatched up just two days ago and are on their way to Australia, perhaps the new owner will vouch for them in a few weeks when he sees what he just acquired, I don't know what else to say about this, but felt like I needed to kinda stand back up for these items. Next up a set of Campy 10's and 8's QUALITY rims...perhaps Mike Mayberry might vouch for the set of 10's I just answered the call on for a european client of his, again, just cleaning out my amazing stash of DeTomaso wheel/tire goodies, I've got the good shit man Smiler and I wanna liquidate all of it
It has nothing to do with you or your integrity. It has to do with saving someone else's life who thinks that tires this old are safe to risk their life on in a high speed event on a track.

It has always been buyer beware.

Unfortunately it has always been an issue with the clock running on anything made of rubber. Some items will last longer then others.

Tires are not like gold bars where you can buy them as an investment and store them forever.

High performance tires in general even new have rubber compounds designed for high heat conditions. Low heat conditions as a result are on or over the limit for low temps. 20 f is about the limit for them before you have issues.

Some of the cracks in the rubber are superficial due to the action of Armor all on the rubber.

Multiple mountings of tires works against them as well.

Even new tires can fail just going out the driveway.

This is just something people should be aware of and make their own decisions on.

I have no vested interests in negatively effecting your sales. Best of luck with that.
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
It has nothing to do with you or your integrity. It has to do with saving someone else's life who thinks that tires this old are safe to risk their life on in a high speed event on a track.

It has always been buyer beware.

Unfortunately it has always been an issue with the clock running on anything made of rubber. Some items will last longer then others.

Tires are not like gold bars where you can buy them as an investment and store them forever.

High performance tires in general even new have rubber compounds designed for high heat conditions. Low heat conditions as a result are on or over the limit for low temps. 20 f is about the limit for them before you have issues.

Some of the cracks in the rubber are superficial due to the action of Armor all on the rubber.

Multiple mountings of tires works against them as well.

Even new tires can fail just going out the driveway.

This is just something people should be aware of and make their own decisions on.

I have no vested interests in negatively effecting your sales. Best of luck with that.


completely agree and respect your knowledge on the subject, I tried to be careful in EVERY public mention, whether discussion or in the ad that I recommend them for SHOW only...they work VERY well as show tires for someone wanting period correct or authenticity of era, thanks Doug for your reply Smiler

and it's NOT armour-all on them...they were wiped down with a damp rag and that is Lake Tahoe morning light making them POP in the photos, they are like new and look like that new
First, 245-50 x 15" BFGs will fit on 8" Campys in front, with a little work. More clearancing may be necessary on the left front than the right front, depending on the Pantera, and if you've added extra caster, a little more clearance may be necessary around the wiper shield and rerouting of the brake lines.
Second, Pirelli P-7R's ARE still periodically available in 275-55 x 15 and 295-50 x 15", in W speed rating (168 mph) from PPC-Carson City. Note the 'R' stands for 'Rally' and they have current date codes- they are not ancient NOS! The problem is, Pirelli makes them at the same little prototype factory in western Turkey as F-1 racing tires. Guess which gets priority? A vendor orders 10 tires and gets 3; he reorders and gets 1...sometimes, none at all. The only way this works is to call Larry and get on his list, as such tires sell within hours of their arrival and are NEVER advertised. They are also not cheap. But arguably they are about the only game in town if you want the insurance of a real DOT speed rating in a wide 15" tire.
Fronts are easier. There are lots of 225-50-15 v or better tires around.

I have Pirelli 225-50-15 P7's on the front but I am going to replace them with something larger. 235 will definitely fit. Some say a 245-50-15 will fit as well.

The largest problem is the lack of something better then an S (BFG) or a T (Mickey Thompson) for the rear.

The BFG has a wider tread at 12.2". The Mickey Thompson tread is a 9.7" tread according to the chart. That would give you the look of a Bonneville vintage 1964 over inflated tire, which I am sure was intended considering it is Mickey Thompson.

The 225-50-15 fronts look like go cart tires on this car and have the effect of lowering the front a little.

Too bad the P7s aren't available. I think they were the best of the 15" tires.
quote:
what brand of are the tires you are running on your car? and JEGS has BF Goodrich 225 60 15 for the front but said thinks they mit rub on wheel wells

I used to have...
BFG Comp TA 205/60x15 on the front, and
BFG Euro TA 305/50x15 on the rear, but they wore out.

Now I have...
Toyo Proxes 4 225/50-15 on front, and
Toyo Proxes ST 295/50x15 on rear
I didn't say they come cheap, but:

If you want good tyres that can cope with high speeds and plenty of horsepower, and of a high quality, those are the way to go. Reasonable priced (imo - at least for us Europeans), seen the little demand and production nnumbers, unless you drive many thousands of miles each year with the cat.

Last year I still found a set of 225/50/15 Toyo front tyres for €300/$375.
If it means anything to anyone ... LT stands for "light truck". Tires with LT at the end of the tire code are truck tires. This means they have more plies of steel & nylon in the sidewall, making the sidewalls stiffer, to prevent wheel damage when used off-road, and for carrying higher payloads. The rubber compounds are different as well, promoting longer tread life and less chance of damage (chunking) when used off road.

-G
quote:
Might go with a 60. Car is very low in front with the 50.

205/60-15 is almost the same size as a 225/50-15, except that the 205/60-15 has a slightly larger diameter so it fills the wheel well a bit better. My car looked great with 205/60/15's on the front and 305/50/15's on the rear.

http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoTireMath.dos

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Make sure you don't buy old stock on these tires. Pirellis in particular don't age well, for high performance use.

I find NO 295-50-15's available with any rating other then the S that the BFG has. Fronts are fairly easy.

The Toyo's haven't been around in a couple of years as far as I can see.
I can deal with H-rated. That's rated to 130MPH (not a speed I get to very often... if ever). In fact I don't think I know of another 295/50/15 that has an H rating or higher. Very limited selection. Hopefully a manufacturer will recognize the opportunity. Muscle car owners with 15 inch wheels all struggle to find nice fat tires.
OMG! How cn you ever show your face in public? LOL!
I don't have my old Comp 427 Cobra pics handy but as I remember, this is very reminiscent of the S/C's.
CSX 3035 and 3036, both red are both like yours. Squatted in the rear with the tire hiding partially under the lip which makes the nose seem a little high.
The rear springs for some reason take a set there and you really can't come lower in the front if you look under at the chassis tubes.
As I recall, you can't make a fist and clear the tube and ground with it, vertically. That's low.
When Dick Smith had the car, he didn't worry about the look, just the function.
I don't know who owns Eber's car now but they were very, very similar and Eber would just copy what Smith had done to his car rather then experiment on his own.
They are both red cars like yours is too.Race cars don't worry at all about cosmetics.
Incidentally, beautiful Cobra.
I've been looking too. I need 295/50/15's and 225/50/15's. You can find both pretty easily but there's not much available for the 15x10 inch rims that are what you would consider high performance/exotic car tread pattern.

I've been thinking about these for the back
http://www.mickeythompsontires...php?item=SportsmanSR.

If my math is correct the 26X12.00R15LT should work? I think these should almost be the same as
P295-50-15's...maybe with a slightly lower profile? Doesn't look like they have a 225/50/15 so I was thinking about these (tread pattern is kindof close) http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...lse&fromCompare1=yes.

You can find some different brands on ebay too http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html...t=See-All-Categories but of course you can find these manufacturers other places as well.
It appears your Pantera is equipped with 15x10 rear Campy wheels, and I'll assume it has 15x8 Campy wheels in the front. The European GTS was originally equipped with 225/50R15 front tires mounted on 15x8 wheels and 285/50R15 rear tires mounted on 15x10 wheels. I assume those are the tire sizes you're interested in. Tires in the 285/50R15 rear size just aren't available these days. Everybody opts instead for 295/50R15 tires for the rear, there is reasonable availability of passenger car tires in that size, but only with lower speed ratings.

A side note: for those interested in upgrading to this tire/wheel combination, 15"x10" forged aluminum Campy clone wheels for the rear of the Pantera are available from a seller on eBay by the name of MisterFiat. They are manufactured by Roin Technology of Italy.

Good quality 295/50R15 performance street tires appropriate for a sports car are available, but locating and acquiring them can be challenging and expensive. For instance Longstone Classic Tyres in the UK sells an Avon CR6ZZ in 275/55VR15 or 295/50VR15, but they don't offer a 225/50VR15 for the front in the same make and model. They do have other makes and models (Michelin, Pirelli) in that size with V or Z speed ratings. Its never ideal to mix and match makes or even models, but when coping with acquiring tires for the oem 15" wheels its an unfortunate necessity. The tires at Longstone are high speed rated and available.

The difficulty and expense of acquiring performance tires designed for 15" rear wheels has lead some owners to utilize street legal competition tires. Other owners have chosen to use tires designed for light trucks (rated LT) in the rear. These are unusual choices for sports car tires, I understand why owners make those choices but I don't wholeheartedly agree with them. Street legal competition tires are not the safest choice, and tires with sidewall structures and rubber compounds designed for light trucks are not a good match for an Italian sports car either. But those tires are easier to acquire and/or less expensive.

-G
quote:
Originally posted by Bosswrench:
First, 245-50 x 15" BFGs will fit on 8" Campys in front, with a little work. More clearancing may be necessary on the left front than the right front, depending on the Pantera, and if you've added extra caster, a little more clearance may be necessary around the wiper shield and rerouting of the brake lines.
Second, Pirelli P-7R's ARE still periodically available in 275-55 x 15 and 295-50 x 15", in W speed rating (168 mph) from PPC-Carson City. Note the 'R' stands for 'Rally' and they have current date codes- they are not ancient NOS! The problem is, Pirelli makes them at the same little prototype factory in western Turkey as F-1 racing tires. Guess which gets priority? A vendor orders 10 tires and gets 3; he reorders and gets 1...sometimes, none at all. The only way this works is to call Larry and get on his list, as such tires sell within hours of their arrival and are NEVER advertised. They are also not cheap. But arguably they are about the only game in town if you want the insurance of a real DOT speed rating in a wide 15" tire.


I'm not doubting you Bosswrench but Larry has no 295-50-15 P7 listed at all. Frankly at $461 ea for the 275-55-15, I'll look elsewhere. Mine cost about $180 each.

These tires will rot on my car before they will get worn out?

I would also point out that I can't remember when he updated the webpage last and that price might be 5 years old? Eeker
They make race tires: NOT FOR HIGHWAY USE: All Hoosier Racing Tires including DOT labeled Hoosier Racing Tires are designed for racing purposes only on specified racing surfaces and are not to be operated on public roadways. DOT labeled Hoosier Racing Tires meet Department Of Transportation requirements for marking and performance only and are NOT INTENDED FOR HIGHWAY USE. It is unsafe to operate any Hoosier Racing Tire including DOT tires on public roads. The prohibited use of Hoosier Racing Tires on public roadways may result in loss of traction, unexpected loss of vehicle control, or sudden loss of tire pressure, resulting in a vehicle crash and possible injury or death.
quote:
Originally posted by griffinmax:
The Mickey Thompson Sportsman S/R's still seem good candidates. H rated. A 26X12.00R15LT tire is the equivalent of 305/46/15 metric.

Here's a little feedback from ClubCobra http://www.clubcobra.com/forum...tsman-s-r-tires.html

They look pretty good on the car too...


This is an EXCELLENT recommendation. Completely under MY radar! Way to go. Love it.

However, I can't find head nor hair of a speed rating, wear rating, traction rating on them. Where did you get that data?

Also, 305 is the metric equivalent, yes, but how did you get the aspect ratio on this tire?

I saw the H speed rating on it yes. Wait. I see the A traction rating too, although that tread pattern is looks very suspicious of traction even with a weather prediction of a 30% chance of rain. No matter. This car hasn't seen that in 25 years.

I feel the value of my original 10" Campis going up now...did you feel it? Big Grin

Thanks. You made my day!
LOL!

Here in the US, or maybe at least by me, Avon is not considered a high quality tire.

Second: high speed driving? I just got a speeding ticket for an 82 in a 65 last week. High speed driving here in the US is only in your dreams.

At about $160 each for a BFG 295-50-15, I can burn up almost three sets for the price of the Avons, but yes, technically you are correct. A V tire is available.
I put a set of Toyo Proxis S/T 295 50 15 on the rear and 245 50 15 on the ft check out my avatar for how it looks. I wound up googling ( is that a word?!) toyo tires with the size and then calling 4 pages of companys in order to find a set in Michigan.

I have not delt with the people below but a quick google found this.

Toyo Proxes S/t Tire P295/50r15
Toyo TiresToyo Tires Max Load = 2061;Tread Depth = 11;Overall Diameter = 26.5 for Jeep $132.99
http://jeepinguy.com/jeepinguy...hp?proddb=2&pid=3523

Now I think Dave and Linda Adler PI in Ca have some 305s if they have not sold them
quote:
Originally posted by Cowboy from Hell:
If it means anything to anyone ... LT stands for "light truck". Tires with LT at the end of the tire code are truck tires. This means they have more plies of steel & nylon in the sidewall, making the sidewalls stiffer, to prevent wheel damage when used off-road, and for carrying higher payloads. The rubber compounds are different as well, promoting longer tread life and less chance of damage (chunking) when used off road.

-G


Really? Cool! Baja! I'm in love.

Actually Cowboy, since I am in NY, the roads here are like a Baja for your life! Not just 500 miles! LOL!

There are no groundhogs to worry about, but the rats are the size of dogs. I hit one and at first thought it was a dog. I stopped and backed up. It was just a rat, and he was getting up. Must have just stunned him? Big Grin
Yes, 225-50 x 15s fit stock 7" Campys and 245-50-x 15 on 8" Campys both fit a stock Pantera front end. Tires in those sizes ARE available; what's not easily available are SPEED-RATED 15" tires. Finding V, Z or W-rated 15" tires isdifficult and when found they are not cheap. Larger width fronts reduces the understeer Ford built into the Pantera, as does changing anti-sway bar diameters and a host of other adjustments. Surprisingly, 8" Campys with 245-50s will steer easier than 225-50s on 7" Campys, due to the better scrub-radius of the 8" wheels.
PanteraDoug,

I got the aspect ratio using this size converter http://www.redrock4x4.com/tire...ButtonName=Calculate.

Glad you like the Sportsman S/R's. These are good for the rears but I think I'll need something different for the front (just as I had stated earlier). The Mickey Thompsons size 26X10.00R15LT ends up being metric size of 254/55/15.
That's too wide for me for fronts and the sidewall looks too tall. You can see this in the below photo. I think the rears look great but the sidewalls on the front look too tall:


Trying to match the S/R's tread pattern, I've found these:

http://www.wheelsnext.com/tire...O-Proxes%20R888.html

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...lse&fromCompare1=yes

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...GCID=C13674x012-tire

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quote:
Originally posted by pantera3322:
I was just told not having the same companys tires on the front and back will cause big handling problems . the larger BF Goodrich tires sounds good but the tires I have on the front now rub when you make a hard turn. Just would like to know if the 245 50 15 will they work .


That is an opinion. One with which I do not agree and I've been doing this a long time.

There is/are all sorts of BS permeated by the sales people at tire stores. They will tell you that you can't put two different size tires on a car also...and other Fairy Tales.

Do you know that when you tune a car for handling on a track most likely you will wind up with different tire pressures in all four tires? Let the experts explain that.



The BFG 245-50-15 will fit on the front with 8" Campis but you need to bend down the fender lips, possibly clearance the tire to the outer edges of the footboxes, and modify the windhield wiper motor cover. But yes if you accept that, it fits...I am told (Bosswrench).

I am also told that one car will require more work then another due to the production variations on the metal work from the factory.
Merging threads

quote:
Originally posted by Chris Wilson:
hey all I know there has been plenty of talk about 15 inch wheels and the lack of tyre avaliable to go on them. i press on regardless.

I have a set of 8's and 10's. here in nz i can locate 295 50 15s the best i can do is 225 50 15 for the front. the 225 seem a little stretched on the 8's.
the only 235 50 15 is a toyo 235 50 15 proxy R888
i was wondering about tyres with a 60 sized side all are there any thoughts re this, such as a 225 60 15
a
i can't find a 235 55 15 or a 235 45 15

Also what is the larges tyre that will safely fit under the front fenders of a stock pre l bodied car.

so comments please.

regards chris.

ps at this stage i am not prepared to go to the campy clones in bigger sizes.
225/50R15 is the correct size tire when the 15x8 Campys are used on the front. Its the factory size for that application. DeTomaso had the habit of using a tire on the widest wheel it was designed for. This makes the sidewall stiffer, reduces slip angles, sharpens response to driver input. The 225/50R18 has a fairly wide tread, about 8", so it fits an 8" wide wheel better than you may think.

The tire will fit and work fine on a 7" wide wheel too if that's your preference.

Regardless what tire you select, keep the front tire OD in the range of 24" to 25"

-G

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