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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Wilson:
hey all I know there has been plenty of talk about 15 inch wheels and the lack of tyre avaliable to go on them. i press on regardless.

I have a set of 8's and 10's. here in nz i can locate 295 50 15s the best i can do is 225 50 15 for the front. the 225 seem a little stretched on the 8's.
the only 235 50 15 is a toyo 235 50 15 proxy R888
i was wondering about tyres with a 60 sized side all are there any thoughts re this, such as a 225 60 15
a
i can't find a 235 55 15 or a 235 45 15

Also what is the larges tyre that will safely fit under the front fenders of a stock pre l bodied car.

so comments please.

regards chris.

ps at this stage i am not prepared to go to the campy clones in bigger sizes.


The 225-50-15 works well on the 8" rim, or the 7". It is actually a small OD tire and lowers the front of the car about an inch. Be aware that if you have a US delivered car they had 1" spacers shimming the springs and if you take the spring spacers out, the lower radiator support is "way down there" vvvvvvvvvv(< arrows pointing down). My sons would say slammed but that is such ghetto term? Big Grin

Where as the car stock was about 43 inches high, it is now down there with the GT40 at around 40". The GT40 got it's name because it complied to the rule of being only 40 inches high. Wink

On my car, if I make a fist I have to turn it horizontal to fit under the nose. Verticle won't clear it.

The 295-50-15, probably a BFG, works ok on the back but the newer Mickey Thompsons, LT 26 x 12R15, although not high speed rated, fit really nice in the back on the 10" Campi. Fits the 8" too.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mtt-6654

It tends to give the car a slight rake, but you don't notice it while you are driving until you come up on a tractor/trailor when all of a sudden it seems like you can go right under the trailor? Eeker

This entire setup just lends itself to the feeling that the car is just some sort of a very highly powered Italian go cart? Works for me?

Ciao Bambino! Big Grin

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Last edited by panteradoug
quote:
Originally posted by tajon:

Why is this George?


A front tire 25 inches in diameter fills the front fender arch quite fully, whereas a front tire smaller than 24 inches in diameter begins to look proportionally too small for the fender arch. Therefore front tire diameter should remain within the range of 23.9” to 25.0”. A rear tire 27 inches in diameter fills the rear fender arch quite fully, whereas a rear tire smaller than 26 inches in diameter begins to look proportionally too small for the rear fender arch. Therefore rear tire diameter should remain within the range of 25.9” to 27.0”. There is an aesthetic condition that must be considered when selecting tires. The front tires and rears tires should “fill” the front and rear fender arches equally. If a 25 inch diameter front tire is combined with a 26 inch diameter rear tire, there would be a situation where the front tire fills the front fender arch fully, while the rear tire would have a rather large clearance between it and the rear fender arch. There would be an aesthetic imbalance in the appearance of the car. As a result of this, the front and rear tires must go up or down in diameter together, or to put this another way the rear tires should be about 2 inches greater in diameter than the front tires (+/- 0.25 inch) in order for your Pantera to look its best. Therefore the diameter of the rear tire should be no less than 1.7” and no more than 2.3” larger than the front tire.

This also impacts the chassis ride height, i.e. the mechanical performance of the chassis. As the difference between front tire OD and rear tire OD decreases (less than 1.7") or increases (greater than 2.3") it "excessively" alters the chassis intended level ride height. This can be compensated for if the car has shocks with adjustable spring pre-load, but if the car has OEM shocks or red body Konis it can't.


Quickly, to set up a Pantera chassis with shocks having adjustable spring pre-load:

(1) set the rear ride height for level lower control arms (lowest setting, closest to OEM)

(2) set the front ride height to level the chassis. The chassis between the axles should be level with the ground, parallel to the ground, equal distance along its length to the ground. If you place a 2 foot bubble level on the door sills, they should be level. Leveling the chassis is important to give the chassis the "balance" that the designer intended it to have.

Changes to the front ride height will alter the bump-steer characteristics of the steering geometry, and the angles of the pivot axis of the upper and lower control arms. Changes to the rear ride height will alter the angles at which the half-shafts (and therefore u-joints) must operate at, plus the angles of the pivot axis of the upper and lower control arms. Combinations with greater front to rear difference in tire diameter make it necessary to raise the front of the car to level the chassis, this increases the gap between the front tire and front wheel arch. Combinations with less front to rear difference in tire diameter make it necessary to lower the front of the car to level the chassis; this reduces the gap between the front tire and the front wheel arch. Some guys do this intentionally in order to lower the CG of the car. Unfortunately this reduces ground clearance, and makes it hard to get a jack under the car.

The interaction of these parameters doesn't leave much room for customization, not like a good ol' American muscle car. But there's a lot of performance built into the Pantera chassis that those muscle cars will never have. If the front and rear tires are of the proper diameter, and their diameters are about 2" apart front to rear, and once the chassis is level, then control arm geometry, bump steer, front caster and appearance should all be "in the ball park". By appearance being in the ball park I mean the gap between the outside radius of the tires and the fender arch radius should be proportionally equal front tires to front fenders and back tires to back fenders. The tires should also be centered very well in the wheel arches. The factory set front caster should be at least 2-1/2 degrees, which is actually inadequate, it was originally intended to be 6 degrees, and should be at least 4 degrees. This causes the tires to lean into the turns, and gives the tires a better grip in corners. Ford intentionally dumbed-down the caster to 2-1/2 degrees in order to make the handling less responsive to driver input, i.e. that was how they "slowed" the cars handling. Ford also screwed-up the chassis set-up with the spacers they placed between the shocks and springs. and then there's the smaller rear anti-sway bar too.

The gearing, odometer, speedometer and rear wheel arch were all set-up for about 26.9" diameter rear tire. If the rear tires should be about 2" larger OD than the front tires, that means the front tires should be about 24.9" diameter.

Hope that gives you a feel for the interaction between all the components, and why we shouldn't stray to far from the originally intended settings.
Last edited by George P
I have an opinion, albeit one that few will agree with. I took my stock Campy wheels to the tire shop and had them fit whatever matched set of tires they had in stock (they have a performance-type tread pattern but were about $100 apiece, new).

You can go around and around discussing "correct" tire size, lack of availability of "correct" tires, speed ratings, etc.

I have yet to see or hear of any modern tire coming apart on any street-driven car, whether it's a sports car or Kia, b/c the speed rating was "too low." I routinely see folks driving on the freeway at 90+ mph for many miles, on off-the-shelf tires. Not once have I seen their tires disintegrate. How often do you really, truly, run your car at sustained speeds of over 100 mph on public roads? (don't answer that...) I'll bet there are not many folks here who have run over 100 for more than a few minutes anywhere for fear of the law. I haven't.

Perhaps if you spend most of your time at Talladega, then searching for the elusive super-speed-rated tires is worthwhile. However I chose not to spend $1,000+ on specialty Pantera wheels and $1,000+ on tires for a car that sees at best 1,000 miles per year. I oven-baked my stock wheels myself, had the tire shop put tires on, and spray-painted the wheels myself. The car has run at high freeway speeds and I've even drag-raced it. Everyone that sees it or rides in it comments on its superb handling and the good looks of the wheel/tire combo. The speedo reads pretty close. There is no mud nor rocks being thrown onto the body due to over-sized tires. Removing and installing the wheels is a breeze b/c they are light and small (relative to some aftermarket designs).

Again, I realize I am solidly in the minority here, and no one will agree w/ me, but my total investment is about $500 and the car still flies and gets many thumbs-up. My tires haven't exploded yet.

Just another option to ponder.
quote:
Originally posted by CB01:
I have an opinion, albeit one that few will agree with. I took my stock Campy wheels to the tire shop and had them fit whatever matched set of tires they had in stock (they have a performance-type tread pattern but were about $100 apiece, new).

You can go around and around discussing "correct" tire size, lack of availability of "correct" tires, speed ratings, etc.

I have yet to see or hear of any modern tire coming apart on any street-driven car, whether it's a sports car or Kia, b/c the speed rating was "too low." I routinely see folks driving on the freeway at 90+ mph for many miles, on off-the-shelf tires. Not once have I seen their tires disintegrate. How often do you really, truly, run your car at sustained speeds of over 100 mph on public roads? (don't answer that...) I'll bet there are not many folks here who have run over 100 for more than a few minutes anywhere for fear of the law. I haven't.

Perhaps if you spend most of your time at Talladega, then searching for the elusive super-speed-rated tires is worthwhile. However I chose not to spend $1,000+ on specialty Pantera wheels and $1,000+ on tires for a car that sees at best 1,000 miles per year. I oven-baked my stock wheels myself, had the tire shop put tires on, and spray-painted the wheels myself. The car has run at high freeway speeds and I've even drag-raced it. Everyone that sees it or rides in it comments on its superb handling and the good looks of the wheel/tire combo. The speedo reads pretty close. There is no mud nor rocks being thrown onto the body due to over-sized tires. Removing and installing the wheels is a breeze b/c they are light and small (relative to some aftermarket designs).

Again, I realize I am solidly in the minority here, and no one will agree w/ me, but my total investment is about $500 and the car still flies and gets many thumbs-up. My tires haven't exploded yet.

Just another option to ponder.


I saw a set of Firestones develope big bubbles in the sidewalls of the tires on a Shelby GT350.

Of course this was on a car that we counted made 37 runs on the dragstrip in one day by a guy we affectionately call "Mad Man" Aleberto.

I think they were F60-15's on 7" rims.

You are correct. They did not explode. MM kept driving with them to see if they would.

I personally have had chunks of tread come out of the tire on BFG's leaving nothing but the cord on two seperated occassions.

Neither of these tires were rated higher than S.

It all depends on where you look to find failed tires. The one place you don't want to hear of them is on your own car, but like all of us, "you pays your moneys, and ya' takes your chances".

As "Dirty Harry" once said..."do you feel lucky today...well do ya'?" Wink
Hi Chris...you helped me with the fan stuff..my turn to throw some info your way. I also have the 8 and 10 inch 15" campy's. They have the factory 225/50/15 on the front and 285/50/15's on the rear. The 225's are fine on the front. Lots of clearance. I wouldn't hesitate to use that size. I wish I had your problem. I have been trying to source 225/50/15's over here in Canada since last February without luck. hmmm...who's your supplier over there for the 225's..maybe I can get a quote for shipping. Again..go ahead with the 225/50/15 on the front...no problems...
Merging threads

quote:
Originally posted by johnek74Pantera:
Hi all. I have a new ( to me) 1974 "L" however it is fitted with 8" Campy's up front and 10"Campy's on the rear. I like the look of the rims and wish to keep them. I can't find a tire to replace the existing rears. They are 285/50/15's. Fronts are 225/50/15's and I have sourced a few of those, but nothing for the rears. Any suggestions aside from getting different rims? Does anyone know of a source for these tires or is there another size that will look the same and fit the rims? Thanks...
That size you are looking for is the Pirelli which hasn't been made in years.

Your best choices right now in the US are BFG 295-50-15 or Mickey Thompson LT 26-12R15.

Not to step on anyones action but buying new tires that are three years old or older is risky.

Particularly with high performance tires.

Depending on the quantity of anti oxidation chemicals in the rubber compound, the treads dry and crack.

The danger is of a high speed blowout by anything over 10 mph can be an issue also.

I have had chunks of the tread missing starting right around the three year old level.

Check the manufacturing date in the tire.

No matter how you take care of them, it doesn't matter. There is a time clock running on tires as soon as they come out of the mold.

Makes no sense in trying to save tread on them. Might as well just go out and burn them up.

The BFG's and the P7's are both susceptible to this drying out of the treads and cracking.

The P7's in my opion were only a good deal when they were more reasonably priced.

To pay over $400 per tire for them is foolish. They aren't the great of a design. The rubber compound sucks.

They are hard and do not stick well at all.

Where do you feel that you need a V rating? Where are you going to go 149 mph? Tell me please? I want to drive there too?

Go with the Mickey Thompsons. They are $233 each, which is what I payed for the P7's.
Last edited by panteradoug
To quickly get an idea what tire availability is in any size, I use the "search for tires by size" feature at two on-line tire shops.

Tire Rack.com/

On Line Tires.com/

Tires in the original European GTS sizes were 225/50R15 front tires, 285/50R15 rear tires. Tires in the the original rear tire size aren't available, everybody substitutes 295/50R15.

If we ignore racing tires and tires rated LT for light trucks I found 5 tires in the 225/50R15 front tire size, having H, V or Y speed ratings. I also found 5 tires in the 295/50R15 rear tire size, unfortunately all of them were only speed rated S. Selecting the same make and model tires in the front as you select for the rear is not possible in these sizes.

-G
Last edited by George P
Tires to maximize 15" wheels are difficult if you require speed-rated tires and/or matching fronts & rears. Hoosier makes a couple, Avon of England makes some and a few Pantera vendors have some Pirellis in stock; none that I know of are 285-50 x 15, though. The slightly wider 295-50s are sometimes available as are slightly narrower 275-55 x 15". Expect to pay upwards of $400 per rear tire at best, and there may be a waiting period. Tire mfg is spotty ate best for performance 15". Try calling around- I know PPC-Carson City, NV (www.panteraparts.com) has some sources, as this comes up constantly. But its a very small market so the mfgrs do nothing.
There are some possibilities out there.

Michelin's TB series:

http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page/michelin-tb5

Pirelli's P7 Corsa:

http://www.pirelli.com/tyre/ww...7_corsa_classic.html

And Hoosier's R6:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...Hoosier&tireModel=R6

I've only used the R6 and they are fine on the street. They need a few minutes to warm up but are great after that initial period.

I would consider one of these three before any of the other older, less sporting tires that have been suggested.

LS
I've only driven a car equipped with S rated BFG T/As once. It was terrifying.

I sourced a set of new Z rated Yoko AVS intermediates for my car last year. These are recent production and were stored properly (sealed up) before use.

Their performance is nothing short of sensational at triple digit speeds.

When it comes time to replace, I will try the Michelin TB-5R next. I would like to get a tire with more recent development and technology on the car.

LS
quote:
Originally posted by lashss:
I've only driven a car equipped with S rated BFG T/As once. It was terrifying.

I sourced a set of new Z rated Yoko AVS intermediates for my car last year. These are recent production and were stored properly (sealed up) before use.

Their performance is nothing short of sensational at triple digit speeds.

When it comes time to replace, I will try the Michelin TB-5R next. I would like to get a tire with more recent development and technology on the car.

LS


The Yokos are nice tires BUT there are tires that even though they have DOT numbers on them and are street legal, have a very limited window of opportunity for street use.

For one thing, tire compound on some of these tires is designed for use within a narrow temperature range.

Many of them will become lethal as the temperature drops and by the time you reach under about 40 F can no longer be driven safely.

It's your money. Spend it how you choose to.
I have used a number of different R compound tires on the street over the years. Yoko A008 RS, Toyo RA1, Conti Grand Am Slicks, Hoosier A6 and most recently the Hoosier R6 and Toyo R888.

Only the Conti and the Hoosier R6 needed any real attention when cold. The others warmed up quickly.

I never really drive cars hard when the tires are cold. I always wait for water temp, oil temp, etc. to climb and by then the tires are warm also.

When warm, these R compounds will absolutely outperform any street tire to the point where I can't imagine driving a performance car without them. The warm performance benefit greatly outweighs any minimal extra care needed when cold.

I had a set of BFG Comp T/A 60 series tires on my old GT350. I switched to Toyo RA1s and it transformed the car. I now run R888s on it and have been similarly pleased.

Apparently the Michelin TBs last 3k miles of mixed use and have a modern tech R compound?

I believe our prayers have been answered.

LS
Chris these are just different marketing areas.

The importer in your neck of the woods may think they have a large enough market to import these Toyos. The US importers think differently.

Goodyear sent me a weighted map of market sizes.
The LA map, just Los Angeles, is larger then all of Europe.

What that means simply is that LA minimum order rmay be 1,000 tires of one size while Europe may be 100.

The cost to a manufacturer like Pirelli to make a run of 285-50-15s of 100 at a time isn't attractive enough to put them on a regular schedule.

I think what has happened is that there certainly are thousands of "classic" cars still running that need 15" tires but their usage is so small mileage wise that they only need tires every 10 years and that's just because of dry rot on the rubber, not wear.

My personal feeling is that although P7's are what I have on the car, they aren't worth $500 each.

When they were $250 each, it was even marginal then. It isn't that good of a tire to begin with.

It tends to be a hot weather tire and the treads are slick and the tire is hard riding under 50 degrees.

At 40 degrees F, you park the car. They act alot like race tires and at that temperature you just can't get them hot and sticky. They are slick just like you are driving on snow.

They are ok if you live in Florida, Texas or southern California where you get a lot of sun and the road surface is hot, but up here in the Northeast, that's a different story.

We don't see the sun for months at a time.

The tires on my Shelby GT350 are BFG Radial T/As. They are fine for what I use the car for including high speed events. They are consistent and predictable and not scary at all. They see 140 more then you would think.

Like any tire, you need to know what it's limits are and how to inflate them.

In my opinion, none of them are what you want to drive fast with in the rain, and they have treads. What do you do with these street legal race tires with one or two water grooves? You can't even pick the spot where you want to run off of the road with them. The car picks it's own.

There is more to it in picking a tire then just size and speed ratings. The rubber compound is very important if you drive your car.

It's just my opinion but it is too dangerous for the average guy to use these street legal "race tires" on the street.

It is just an unsafe situation and public safety is at stake.

Most drivers, even driving enthusiasts are better off with a proven all around tire.

The alternative would be to have multiple sets of tires for different road conditions and change them as the road conditions change.

Maybe you can have your pit crew follow you in a chase truck and when you pit for gas, do a tire change too?

That's kind of impractical if you are taking the car on any kind of an extended trip.

If you want to debate which tire is best, fine, but let's start out with the original Goodyear Arrivas and see how far technology has come with them?

It might be surprising that it hasn't changed all that much.
PanteraDoug, no use for V rated tires?

Under 40 degree "driving" days?

No sun for months?

You're not selling NY very well to car people!

Smiler

I do agree with your statement about R compounds not being suitable for average drivers. At the same time I'm hoping the typical Detomaso driver is above average in their skill considering the power and chassis layouts involved.

If you drive your car only a few thousand miles a year, primarily during the warmer, salt free months and not in standing water, R compounds are a fine.

They become even more attractive if you really enjoy the increased performance in spirited driving.

I will never go back to street tires for my fun cars.

Just offering another perspective that brings three new tire options to the 15" dilemma.

LS
quote:
Originally posted by lashss:
PanteraDoug, no use for V rated tires?

Under 40 degree "driving" days?

No sun for months?

You're not selling NY very well to car people!

Smiler

I do agree with your statement about R compounds not being suitable for average drivers. At the same time I'm hoping the typical Detomaso driver is above average in their skill considering the power and chassis layouts involved.

If you drive your car only a few thousand miles a year, primarily during the warmer, salt free months and not in standing water, R compounds are a fine.

They become even more attractive if you really enjoy the increased performance in spirited driving.

I will never go back to street tires for my fun cars.

Just offering another perspective that brings three new tire options to the 15" dilemma.

LS


The truth hurts. Southern California is the place to be for high performance cars NOT NY.

You really need winter compound tires here for the cold weather months.

Some days the high for the day is 15. The tires get very hard and will not bite at all in turns.

R compounds have their benefits BUT one needs to know their limitations.

They are at their best on sunny days and temps about 85-90. They can get slick in high heat too.

I prefer not to think about that and just drive the car.

I pretty much know where the limitations are on a street tire but even so they can fool you too.

Even most weekend racers will go with an intermediate and stay with it and drive around it's limitations.

Not to kill any left over positive thoughts of NY further but I can't think of any place withing a hundred miles where I could use the benefits of a comp tire.

There are many places however that will do you in with them.

I wouldn't be any good with them anyway. I just don't get enough practice with them.
Last edited by panteradoug
quote:
Originally posted by lashss:
PanteraDoug, it sounds weird, but come down to DC for car culture and driving weather.

We typically drive, salt free and reasonably warm from March-mid December.

What are the Toyo Proxes S/T like? That could be a more modern alternative to the Arrivas and BFG balloons?

LS


Nah, I always get screwed up on Dupont Cirle and get in the wrong lane. Eeker
quote:
And for those that know about Dupont Circle, THAT statement is fraught with mixed messages !!!!!!!


The neighborhood declined after World War II and particularly after the 1968 riots, but began to enjoy a resurgence in the 1970s, fueled by urban pioneers seeking an alternative lifestyle. The neighborhood took on a bohemian feel and became an area popular among the gay and lesbian community. Along with The Castro in San Francisco, Hillcrest in San Diego, Greenwich Village in New York City, Boystown in Chicago, Oak Lawn in Dallas, Montrose in Houston, and West Hollywood in Los Angeles, Dupont Circle is considered a historic locale in the development of American gay identity. D.C.'s first gay bookstore, Lambda Rising, opened in 1974 and gained notoriety nationwide.[15] In 1975, the store ran the world's first gay-oriented television commercial
The Dupont Circle neighborhood, which is listed on the National Register of Historic Places, is home to numerous embassies, many of which are located in historic residences. The Thomas T. Gaff House serves as the Colombian ambassador's residence, and the Walsh-McLean House is home to the Indonesian embassy.Located east of Dupont Circle on Massachusetts Avenue is the Clarence Moore House, now known as the Embassy of Uzbekistan, and the Emily J. Wilkins House, which formerly housed the Australian embassy and now is occupied by the Peruvian Chancery.
Other landmarks, many of which are listed on the National Register of Historic Places, include the International Temple, Embassy Gulf Service Station, Christian Heurich Mansion (also known as Brewmaster's Castle), Whittemore House (headquarters to the Woman's National Democratic Club), and the Phillips Collection, the country's first museum of modern art. The Richard H. Townsend House located on Massachusetts Avenue now houses the Cosmos Club.[24] The Dumbarton Bridge, also known as the Buffalo Bridge, carries Q Street over Rock Creek Park and into Georgetown and was constructed in 1883.[24] The Nuns of the Battlefield sculpture, which serves as a tribute to over 600 nuns who nursed soldiers of both armies during the Civil War was erected in 1924.[26][27] The Mansion on O Street a luxury boutique hotel, private club, events venue and museum has been a fixture in Dupont Circle for over 30 years and includes over 100 rooms and 32 secret doors. The Brickskeller Inn & Bar has long been a popular bar in the neighborhood.
quote:
Originally posted by lashss:
Curiously, one of my last random Detomaso sightings was in Dupont. It was a black L with tinted windows...looked fantastic. Also, one of my first Detomaso sightings was in the south end years ago...red Pre L with black trim. I was in my 308 and we drove alongside each other to Georgetown...sounded amazing.


He was probably looking for new tires there?
Hoosier makes a 245 and a 275 in 15" diameters. These may be a good choice for those running 8s and 10s on a narrow body car.

If anyone wants to try the Hoosier R6s without splurging for a new set, JB Racing Tires has used ones for $50-80.

I've used them before when experimenting with unfamiliar tires.

Jb Racing Tires
John & Mike
4985 Hwy 50
Delavan WI 53115
Office: 262-740-0180
Cell: 262-903-4235
Web-site: www.jbracingtires.net
They do have DOT stamps on them...so up to the officer to decide. I live in an area where they are lenient with antique vehicles.

We also have an avg 44 week driving season, warm temps, nice roads within 15 miles of downtown, thousands of exotics, multiple car shows each weekend, no emissions testing, cheap antique car registration...sorry will stop there.

LS
Has anyone tired these Hoosiers?
http://www.hoosiertire.com/strttire.htm

I've never heard of them before (this "Pro-Street Radial" line, not Hoosier). There look to be some sizes that may be suitable (if a bit "tall") for Panteras with wider 15" dia. wheels. They are H-speed rated and ARE DOT Highway (but NOT racing) approved.

See flyer:
http://www.hoosiertire.com/pdfs/prostr.pdf

In typical Hoosier fashion, the sizes are not normal P-Metric, but inch-height-width sizing.

Mark
I have just ordered a pair of Avon CR6ZZ 295/50r15 for my 74L (currently on special from vintagetyres.com) and was wondering if anybody has any suggestions for a V rated 225/50R15 front tire which would work well with the Avons?

I live in the UK so normal air temperature range can be 50-75f (10-25c). I don't tend to drive the car in the wet, though inevitably I will get caught in the rain from time to time. I only use the car for road driving so it will not be tracked.

I was looking at the new Toyo R888R, but not sure if that will be suitable? I also notice Pirelli do the Cinurato P7 classic tire?

Thanks
Stephen
quote:
Originally posted by Stee:
I have just ordered a pair of Avon CR6ZZ 295/50r15 for my 74L (currently on special from vintagetyres.com) and was wondering if anybody has any suggestions for a V rated 225/50R15 front tire which would work well with the Avons?

I live in the UK so normal air temperature range can be 50-75f (10-25c). I don't tend to drive the car in the wet, though inevitably I will get caught in the rain from time to time. I only use the car for road driving so it will not be tracked.

I was looking at the new Toyo R888R, but not sure if that will be suitable? I also notice Pirelli do the Cinurato P7 classic tire?

Thanks
Stephen


Pirelli P7, 225-50-15. The only issue I have found with them is cold weather. The tread compound seems not to be designed to stick well in cold weather. Cold weather defined as being under about 35F.

They really would be a perfect LA tire, but what isn't?

Run them at 35psi. They will work on the 7 or 8" rims. Mine are on 8"s.

They don't take any practice to "learn them" and seem to stay the same on the street or on the track.

The rear tires in that size are going to change the rear bite some in turns. I think a tire that is a little slick in the back is a little better then one that bites too much.

I don't know how that particular tread and compound works though. Sorry.

Race "slicks", by comparison, get their traction from a controlled slide through the turns. Those you need to learn how to use.



You can put the bigger GTS rear anti-sway bar on the car but make sure you take the spring spacers out (if you have a US car). You want to reduce the roll in cornering as much as you can to make the tires work.

Oh, and watch your ground clearance in the front. The car is like a go cart with them on. Wink
Agree on the matching Avon CR6ZZ front when possible.

There are many new 15" options available. Enough to make running original wheels almost confusing with choices.

I would also ask Longstone for advice if you are mixing and matching.

I am running the Toyo R888R on the front with P Zero Pirellis on the rear. The combination has been excellent for performance.

LSJ
Thanks everyone for their help so far. A match set would be nice but I have 8" in the front.

Avon do a 225/60R15 but I am not sure if I will have clearance issues at the front? I was also trying to take George's advice on trying to get the same fill of the wheel arches front and back which a 225/50R15 would do better.

I don't mind a mixed set, and I am interested in others members experiences. So thanks for your sharing your experiences of the P7's and the R888R'r.

I will try Longstone for some advice when they open this week.

Thanks
Stephen
quote:
Originally posted by René #4406:
OEM 185/70/15 diameter is 25.2"

and 225/60/15 diameter is 25,6"

225/50/15 diameter is only 23,9"


The difference is that with the 225/60 if you make a fist and hold it vertically, you can slide it under the lower front radiator support.

With the 50, you have to turn your first vertically to clear it.
Hi

I have to say De Tomaso are possibly one of the trickiest cars to find tyre fitment for.

Pirelli have made quite a few new tyres that might be of interest to you guys https://www.longstonetyres.co....relli-cinturato.html

They are also making a new tyre 285/40R15 Cinturato P7 which i beleive is a tyre that might be of interest to Pantera people. They do currently make a 225/50R15 P7 and a 205/50R15 P7. Any day now i should have a 345/35R15 P7. https://www.longstonetyres.co....li-cinturato/p7.html

I hope these are useful to you.
Hi Dougal,
It is great that there are some quality classic tyres with decent speed ratings coming on to the market for our cars. However, it would be great if you could convince them to make a matching 285/50/15 or 295/50/15 for the 10 inch back wheels, as the 285/40/15s are far too small - they are the front tyres for the wide body cars.
Cheers, Tim.
quote:
Originally posted by Timsteren:
Hi Dougal,
It is great that there are some quality classic tyres with decent speed ratings coming on to the market for our cars. However, it would be great if you could convince them to make a matching 285/50/15 or 295/50/15 for the 10 inch back wheels, as the 285/40/15s are far too small - they are the front tyres for the wide body cars.
Cheers, Tim.


+1.

Yup I need 295-50-15 minimum for the rear with 10x15" wheels. 305's would be perfect though.

Avon currently does make them.
quote:

Originally posted by www.longstone.com:

... I have to say De Tomaso are possibly one of the trickiest cars to find tyre fitment for ...




Dougal

Three tyre "sets" will suffice for all but the last 40 Panteras that were manufactured.

One "set" of tyres the Pantera world needs is 285/40R15 and 345/35R15 for the wide body versions of the Pantera, i.e. the GT5 and GT5-S. There were a small number of Panteras for which these sizes were original equipment, and the Panteras which have been customized as Group 4 race car replicas also need these tires. It appears this set of tyres is now available, which is certainly good news for the owners who need these tires.

Another "set" of tyres the Pantera world needs is 225/50R15 and 285/50R15 for the GTS and Group 3 versions of the Pantera. There are a small number of Panteras for which these sizes were original equipment. It appears the front tyre is already available, but the rear tyre is yet to be made available.

However, the majority of Pantera owners would profit by a "set" composed of 225/55R15 front and 275/55R15 rear. The tyres were the ideal upgrade for Panteras originally equipped with 185/70R15 and 215/70R15 radial tyres, or C60 & H60 Goodyear Arrivas; which is by far the majority of Panteras manufactured. Those cars have 15x7 front wheels, and 15x8 rear wheels. All 5200 Panteras exported to the US were so equipped, the earliest Panteras sold in Europe were also so equipped. Many owners chose to upgrade to 15x10 rear wheels, an option once available via the factory, and via Hall Pantera in the US. That option is still available today via the aftermarket. That set of "55 series" tyres had the proper outside diameters (24.74" front & 26.91" rear). The front tyres were the ideal width for the 15x7 front campy wheels, the rear tyres were rated for 15x8 wheels minimum width to 15x10 wheels maximum width; so they fit the rear wheels no matter which rear wheels the Pantera had been fitted with.

Strange that the front 225/55R15 tyre fell out of availability because it was original equipment on 3 series BMWs (1992 through 1997). BMW owners would certainly be another market for the 225/55R15 tyres. The 275/55VR15 tyres were OEM on the Bentley Turbo R (1985 through 1992).

If you have any "pull" with Pirelli, and could influence the availability of the 285/50R15 tyre for the second set and the "55 series" tyres for the third set, you would have the De Tomaso market cornered. Something to consider anyway.

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Last edited by George P
quote:
Dougal

Three tyre "sets" will suffice for all but the last 40 Panteras that were manufactured.

One "set" of tyres the Pantera world needs is 285/40R15 and 345/35R15 for the wide body versions of the Pantera, i.e. the GT5 and GT5-S. There were a small number of Panteras for which these sizes were original equipment, and the Panteras which have been customized as Group 4 race car replicas also need these tires. It appears this set of tyres is now available, which is certainly good news for the owners who need these tires.


We will get the 345/35R15 Cinturato P7 very soon.
285/40R15 Cinturato P7 will be a few months yet.
They will be listed on here when they come in. https://www.longstonetyres.co....li-cinturato/p7.html
I must say i am a bit releived because i had asked Pirelli to make the 285/40. the wheels are inn motion, then i noticed earlier in this post there is a table that only lists the 285/50. i thought we were making a size nobody wanted.



quote:
Another "set" of tyres the Pantera world needs is 225/50R15 and 285/50R15 for the GTS and Group 3 versions of the Pantera. There are a small number of Panteras for which these sizes were original equipment. It appears the front tyre is already available, but the rear tyre is yet to be made available.


Pirelli do already make a 225/50R15 Cinturato P7 https://www.longstonetyres.co....relli-cinturato.html

My guess is that if we sell the 285/40R15 Cinturato P7. then i can go back to Pirelli and ask for a 285/50R15.

quote:
However, the majority of Pantera owners would profit by a "set" composed of 225/55R15 front and 275/55R15 rear. The tyres were the ideal upgrade for Panteras originally equipped with 185/70R15 and 215/70R15 radial tyres, or C60 & H60 Goodyear Arrivas; which is by far the majority of Panteras manufactured. Those cars have 15x7 front wheels, and 15x8 rear wheels. All 5200 Panteras exported to the US were so equipped, the earliest Panteras sold in Europe were also so equipped. Many owners chose to upgrade to 15x10 rear wheels, an option once available via the factory, and via Hall Pantera in the US. That option is still available today via the aftermarket. That set of "55 series" tyres had the proper outside diameters (24.74" front & 26.91" rear). The front tyres were the ideal width for the 15x7 front campy wheels, the rear tyres were rated for 15x8 wheels minimum width to 15x10 wheels maximum width; so they fit the rear wheels no matter which rear wheels the Pantera had been fitted with.


Flippin heck! Pantera fitment is complicated.

Sadly, although Pirelli have most of sizes you want, we sadly end up with a mixture of tread pattern.

185/70VR15 - easy we have a Cinturato CN36 which is great and would look super cool https://www.longstonetyres.co....nturato-cn36-n4.html

unfortunately they don't make a 215/70VR15 in the CN36 tread pattern, but they do make a 215/60VR15 https://www.longstonetyres.co....pirelli-cn36-n4.html my guess is that will be too small in diameter

However they do make a 215/70VR15 CN12! https://www.longstonetyres.co....-cinturato-cn12.html

I suppose at least they are still the same manufacturer. and they do have high speed rating.

In the bigger sizes; could you get away with fitting a 205/70WR15 Cinturato CN12 on the front? https://www.longstonetyres.co....-cinturato-cn12.html

Because Pirelli do currently make a 255/60VR15 Cinturato CN12 https://www.longstonetyres.co....-cinturato-cn12.html (a 255/60R15 is close to a 275/55R15. The Muira SV fitted 255/60, and so did the Aston Martin Vantage. However because it wasn't available for some time both those cars have had to fit the CR6ZZ 275/55R15, which although it is a great track tyre isn't really ideal for a road car, specially if it doesn't do many miles.

We do sell the CR6ZZ too https://www.longstonetyres.co....s/avon-cr6zz/15.html

All our tyre pages show the dimentyions of the tyres if you want to work stuff out.

quote:
Strange that the front 225/55R15 tyre fell out of availability because it was original equipment on 3 series BMWs for many years. BMW owners would certainly be another market for the 225/55R15 tyres. I have no recollection of what the original application for 275/55R15 tyres had been.


I guess Avon do make a 225/60 https://www.longstonetyres.co....vr15-avon-cr6zz.html

quote:
If you have any "pull" with Pirelli, and could influence the availability of the 285/50R15 tyre for the second set and the "55 series" tyres for the third set, you would have the De Tomaso market cornered. Something to consider anyway.


Maybe.

CN36 - CN12 - P7

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  • 215-60WR15_Cinturato_CN36_N4_-_FULL_600x600
I'm leaning towards the Avon's with the outer wall shaved and GOODYEAR letters applied.

For the use I put the car to, they are fine and seem more appropriate to the car then the Pirelli's are.

I currently have P7's on it now but they need to be freshened up due to age.



I agree that the Avon TENDS to be more of a race tire then a street tire but for my use they are fine.

The difference is basically because of the softer compound on the Avons vs. the P7's. The Pirelli's are a little hard on the treads compound and basically are banana skins by the time the temps drop under 40 degrees.


I'm getting reliable reports of the Avon's delivering 20,000 mile wear. By the time I put another 20,000 miles on this car, I'll already have been dead 10 years.



US cars were delivered with Goodyear's and here, raced with "Bluestreaks". They seem to me as appropriate or more so then the Pirelli's do for a US car. Particularly with my racer on the street perspective. Kind of like a Cobra 427 S/C.

The blue streak on those tires then and these Avon's now are painted on and optional. It can be left off.

This is a pricey decision since it's an $800 upcharge to do the sidewalls like this.

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  • Avons_with_Goodyear_logo_2
Theoretically these tyres should have this heighth of side wall (these are the calculations. actual tyres sizes vary a little)

285/50 = 142.5mm (50% of 285mm)
295/50 = 147.5mm
285/55 = 156.75mm (55% of 285mm)

255/60 = 153mm
275/55 = 151.25mm
215/70 = 150.5mm

Really on an 8" wide wheel
with a profile above 50% you can go from 225 - 285
with a profile below 50% 205 - 245
This i believe is recommended - not necessarily law. however that could vary from country to country

Looking again at George P's chart. I'm wondering if you could use Pirelli's 215/60R15 CN36 on the front of the 60% profile mid '70s era

Interestingly (maybe only to a nerd like me) De Tommaso were right on it because i beleive that 60% profile tyres were only just developed in the second half of 1972. I am suprised to see Good year making them that early. Untill now i thought the first was Pirelli Cinturato CN36
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
I'm leaning towards the Avon's with the outer wall shaved and GOODYEAR letters applied.



For the use I put the car to, they are fine and seem more appropriate to the car then the Pirelli's are.


I like your printing and the Avon carcass is the right shape (a large part of why they handle well on cars of this period). but the tread pattern looks nothing like a '70s tyre.

quote:
I currently have P7's on it now but they need to be freshened up due to age.

Age is critical. you cannot compare an old rubber with new. Its like comparing Granite with modern rubber

[QUOTE]I agree that the Avon TENDS to be more of a race tire then a street tire but for my use they are fine.


agreed, however a harsher ride and heavier than a road tyre.


quote:
The difference is basically because of the softer compound on the Avons vs. the P7's. The Pirelli's are a little hard on the treads compound and basically are banana skins by the time the temps drop under 40 degrees.


You cannot compare compounds you must be talking about some old rubber you have. the new P7's, when they come, will be made with up to date rubber compounds. the compounds in the old P7 will not be as sophisticated as the new production of P7.

The Avon is a racing tyre and will be great when it gets hot, but as it goes through heat cycles, racing compounds will work better, but deteriorate and loose grip with age faster than a road tyre.

However any tyre doesn't work at all well when it is 10 years old. but i would rather drive on a 7 year old road tyre than a 5 year old racing tyre.

quote:
I'm getting reliable reports of the Avon's delivering 20,000 mile wear. By the time I put another 20,000 miles on this car, I'll already have been dead 10 years.


As the tyre gets older with age and heat cycles the compounds deteriorate and give less grip. As the tyre grips less the wear rate slows down. so if you fit a really old tyre that doesn't grip it will last for ages, because there is less movement in hard rubber that doesn't move. Racing compounds are built to achieve different goals.

It sounds like i am slamming the CR6ZZ. i'm not they are great. However i know what i would rather have as a road car. and i know what i would rather be driving on when the tyres are 6 years old. Specially if i lived in a hot dry country!

quote:
US cars were delivered with Goodyear's and here, raced with "Bluestreaks". They seem to me as appropriate or more so then the Pirelli's do for a US car. Particularly with my racer on the street perspective. Kind of like a Cobra 427 S/C.

The blue streak on those tires then and these Avon's now are painted on and optional. It can be left off.

This is a pricey decision since it's an $800 upcharge to do the sidewalls like this.


Hmm i get that a Goodyear would be more correct, but a CR6ZZ isn't, and it is also a new tyre I think from memory it was a new retro tyre range that that begann in the '90s. It is a shame for Avon that they didn't use a period tread pattern.

The tread patterns of the Pirelli are actually period correct. I guess also the Pirelli is cheaper and more suited to the road https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/tyres/215-70x15.html this page demonstrated the prices of 215/70r15 tyres and a 255/60 Pirelli costs £ 339 compared to Avon 275/55 £ 368

PanteraDoug

I'm sorry i feel like a bit of a tosser recommending alternatives to your Avon's. no doubt they look epic with the printing on the side. On top of that you do also get to have the same tread pattern front and rear which is seeming a bit of a pain in the Bum with the Pirelli Cinturato range. and no doubt the CR6ZZ is a great tyre so i am sorry if i sound like i am criticizing your choice. many of these Pirelli have only just been made again, so i bet they weren't there when you started making decisions. And the CR6ZZ carcass is built to be progressive, and handle great on old cars.
There is no perfect choice here. I have to go with tastes rather than correctness.

Look. The Pantera is an American-Italian hybrid.

If I'm in Italy I wear the P7's, here I wear the
Avon-Goodyears.

The Italian side of the family gets insulted for Americanizing the car. Good for them? Roll Eyes

HERE the "Goodyears" are PROBABLY more correct for a Grp4 Pantera then the Pirelli's? In addition, they more closely resemble the Goodyear Arriva's then the Pirelli's do?


I lean more to the '60s cars plus the early '70s such as the Cobra, the GT40, the Shelby Mustangs. The Pantera is their Italian cousin who moved here from Italy.

In Rome, do as the Romans do. In the US...

The Avon tread pattern is my least favorite part of the tire. It does resemble the tread of the Goodyear blue streaks as well as the Goodyear Polyglass tire.

The tread looks dead nuts on to the first GT40's.


It just comes down to taste. This is like debating over Momma Celeste's Lasagna. I like some sweet sausage mixed into it and a crispy baked top layer.

My Italian cousin says I'm crazy. That's fine. I wear that like a red badge of courage!

It would make sense then that I like Pinot Grigio with the Lasagna rather then Merlot?

Actually Bud Light is even better. Great taste, less filling.

I don't wear socks with my sandals. What can I say? I'm an independent thinker...sometimes.

Chow bambino. Big Grin


In the US, the 69 Shelby's were one of the first, if not the first to be factory installed with 60 profiles Goodyear Polyglass GT tires (F60-15). Wink
quote:

Originally posted by www.longstone.com:

... Flippin heck! Pantera fitment is complicated ...



Smiler Yeah, tyres that vary in cross-section by 30mm to 60mm, plus vary in diameter front to rear by 2 inches.

Thank you for taking time to answer member's questions, to update us regarding tyre availability, and to investigate matching your inventory with our needs.

I am not aware of any owner, not even among those whom are most discriminating in regards to originality, that want to equip their car with a 185/70 & 215/70 tyre set. I would discourage you from putting any effort in that direction.

Oddly, back in the 1990s when the 225/55 and 275/55 P7 tyres were available, most owners were not aware they existed as an option (when combined) for the Pantera. Considering the popularity of the P7 in that era, if owners had been aware many would have opted for that tyre set rather than continuing to use the Goodyear Arrivas.

Some owners adopted use of 225/50 and 285/50 P7s 20 to 30 years ago, only to have the rear tyre fall-out of production. Many chose not to upgrade to the 50 series P7s however, because their diameters were wrong or because they refused to purchase the requisite 15x10 rear wheels (Pantera wheels are magnesium and expensive).

Today many owners "settle on" or "tolerate" 205/60 or 215/60 in the front and 245/60 or 255/60 in the rear for lack of anything better. All have given-up on ever having speed rated performance radials available again for their cars. Many have given up on having the same make and model tyres on the front and rear. Some have taken to using truck tyres like the Pirelli Scorpion, others have taken to using street legal race tyres. Other owners have upgraded to larger diameter wheels so they can use modern low profile tyres; but with the rising value of the Pantera, and the emphasis on originality, many who installed the larger wheels would prefer to return to the original wheels IF a good set of tyres were available for them (I'm one of those myself). I firmly believe a great many Pantera owners would embrace a 225/55 and 275/55 tyre set in a speed rated radial with modern rubber compounds and construction (i.e. the P7 reproductions).

I've altered the last chart I posted, splitting it into two, adding production numbers.

Cheers.

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Last edited by George P
For the standard body cars, I think that the 225/50/15 fronts and 285/50/15 rears fit well and looks nice. If I remember correctly, I had the 285’s mounted on my 8” wheels before I purchased the 10” wheels. Due to the offset of the 10’s and the 285’s, the fit was pretty much flush with the body. A tire too much wider might stick out past the body a bit. Due to the lack of availability, I have upgraded to larger wheels and brakes. I think it would be great if they started producing some of these sizes again.
The picture is of the Mickey Thompson 26x12-15 fits well on the 10" wheel also. It's right in that 285-295 range.
-section: 12.0
-tread: 10.60
-OD: 26.10
-wheel:8-10
-price: $238.50
-speed rating H = 130mph


The 305 BFG's Euro rally tire is right on the verge of hanging out. The 285 is acceptable but the 295-50-15 is about as "perfect" as you can get unless you go to the 17" aftermarket Campi look alike's.

I would go for 295-50-15 P7's if they became available.
The BFG would be a substitute for that currently.
-section:12.2
-tread: 10.0'
-od: 26.7
-wheel: 8-10
-speed rating: S = 112 mph
-price: $210.40


I personally like the fit of the 225-50-15 P7's on the front on 8" Campi's but it does lower the front just a hair.

I'm not that concerned with the speed rating of the tires. V or better is nice but S was fine even on the Autobahn long before the V became available.

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Last edited by panteradoug
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
The Mickey Thompson 26x12-15 fits well on the 10" wheel also. It's right in that 285-295 range.

The 305 BFG's Euro rally tire is right on the verge of hanging out. The 285 is acceptable but the 295-50-15 is about as "perfect" as you can get unless you go to the 17" aftermarket Campi look alikes.

I would go for 295-50-15 P7's if they became available.

I personally like the fit of the 225-50-15 P7's on the front on 8" Campi's but it does lower the front just a hair.

I'm not that concerned with the speed rating of the tires. V or better is nice but S was fine even on the Autobahn long before the V became available.


It is true in the United States but in Europe, and especially in Germany which is only a few tens of kilometers from my home, there are freeways where the speed is free and with 400, 450, ... 500 CV a Pantera must be able to approach 200 mph and compete with Porsche, Ferrari and other AMG.
Jimmy, the max front tire size I found usable was 245-50 (or better- 245-40), which fit well on 8" Campys and clear -barely- the outer fenders. With a few strategically placed dents here and there, they also clear the inner fenders, the windshield wiper shield and the left cowl drain-pipe. This mostly happens in full-lock turns with two people aboard. Tires that size have been on the front of our car for some 20 yrs of street use including track days and autocrossing.

This is with the factory spring spacers removed, front fender lips rolled the max, a 2 degree nose lowering and with -4 degrees of caster. Extra caster pulls the wheels back toward the cabin, making contact with things that formerly had plenty of clearance in turns- like front brake hose routings and the wiper shield. Radical lowering does the same.

Most tire clearance problems on our '72 'L' were on the left side, as many unmolested Pantera front clips seem to be slightly asymmetric from the factory. I suspect multiple factory weld-jigs were used to complete the shells and were not quite identical, or maybe the L models got a second, asymmetric jig. Avon and Hoosier sell usable street-DOT 245-40 x 15s.
quote:
Originally posted by Bosswrench:
Jimmy, the max front tire size I found usable was 245-50 (or better- 245-40), which fit well on 8" Campys and clear -barely- the outer fenders. With a few strategically placed dents here and there, they also clear the inner fenders, the windshield wiper shield and the left cowl drain-pipe. This mostly happens in full-lock turns with two people aboard. Tires that size have been on the front of our car for some 20 yrs of street use including track days and autocrossing.

This is with the factory spring spacers removed, front fender lips rolled the max, a 2 degree nose lowering and with -4 degrees of caster. Extra caster pulls the wheels back toward the cabin, making contact with things that formerly had plenty of clearance in turns- like front brake hose routings and the wiper shield. Radical lowering does the same.



Most tire clearance problems on our '72 'L' were on the left side, as many unmolested Pantera front clips seem to be slightly asymmetric from the factory. I suspect multiple factory weld-jigs were used to complete the shells and were not quite identical, or maybe the L models got a second, asymmetric jig. Avon and Hoosier sell usable street-DOT 245-40 x 15s.


I probably should have clarified this, the 285/50/15’s that were mounted on the 8’s were on the rear. I had a 215/60/15 on 7” rims that were on the front of the car. Those tires came on the car. The rears had a tall 60 series that came on the car as well. I thought they were a little too tall. I found out that the 285/50/15 would fit on the 15x8’s so I put those tires on the 15x8’s until I found a set of 15x10’s. If there was a potential for these tires to be made, I would have kept the stock set up and not gone with the bigger Campy style wheels.(17x8 245/40/17 front,18x11.5 335/30/18 rear). I agree with regards to the front’s. I wouldn’t think a tire much bigger than a 245 would fit on the front of a narrow body without modifications.
Hi

I suppose here are my suggestions from what is available currently

early cars are easy 185/70VR15 and 215/70VR15 are both available from Avon CR6ZZ https://www.longstonetyres.co....yres/avon-cr6zz.html or Michelin XWX https://www.longstonetyres.co....es/michelin-xwx.html I would fit XWX. they are more of a road tyre. Pirelli make both these sizes, but not in the same tread pattern. and XWX is of course correct. XWX came out at the end of the '60s and was their flag ship tyre which was being fitted to cars like 6.9 Mercedes Ferrari's, and the early Countach.

this gets tricky. Goodyear aren't making any classic tyres. (except a few crossply tyres for pre war Model A Ford). we would really like to go down the rout of Pirelli's CN12, https://www.longstonetyres.co....-cinturato/cn12.html because it is period (1971). It has a very high speed rating (W), they are the only company to make the correct 255/60VR15. It wouldn't suprise meif they were a European option, becvause not many commpanies made thsi size tyre, but Pirelli did for the Aston Martin Vantage and the Lamborghini Muira SV. However Pirelli don't make a 205/60VR15 (why would you. it is not a comon classic car size) Pirelli do make a 205/70WR15 Cinturato CN12 which is high performance and matches the 255/60WR15 CN12 Rear. I suppose the question is can you fit a 205/70WR15 in the front. They will be a b it taller. Pirelli do also make a 215/60R15 CN36 wich will bit a little larger, but have a different tread pattern. However all these CN12 and CN36 tread patterns will be great road tyres and handle really well. The next best option i would think will again be Avon CR6 ZZ they do make a 275/55 https://www.longstonetyres.co....vr15-avon-cr6zz.html then you are left with the choice of 205/70VR15 or 215/60R15 again. If 205/70VR15 fits then you will be better off on the road with Pirelli, but if you need to fit 215/60R15 or 185/70VR15 then you do have the option of having the same tread pattern. Although i am a fan of same smaaller tyres on cars i think if you up the size of the rear, reverting back to 185/70 on the front could lead to some dramatic under steer, with the power on. I still think if you can fit 205/70 on the fron CN12 is the best option.

225/50R15 is easy https://www.longstonetyres.co....relli-cinturato.html they are on the shelf. what you do for the 285/50R15 rears for now i don't know, with there being only 100 cars it is difficult to ask a tyre manufacturer to make them

285/40R15 easy they are on the way from Pirelli. 345/35R15 No problem. i should have them in a month or so https://www.longstonetyres.co....li-cinturato-p7.html
quote:
Originally posted by www.longstone.com

225/50R15 is easy https://www.longstonetyres.co....relli-cinturato.html they are on the shelf. what you do for the 285/50R15 rears for now i don't know, with there being only 100 cars it is difficult to ask a tyre manufacturer to make them

285/40R15 easy they are on the way from Pirelli. 345/35R15 No problem. i should have them in a month or so https://www.longstonetyres.co....li-cinturato-p7.html


Hi Dougal, the 285/50/15 will fit on all of the narrow body cars, which is ~ 5000+ cars. I had the 285/50/15’s mounted on my 15x8” rear rims first then switched them to the 15x10’s later on. So the 285/50/15’s will work on a lot more than 100 cars.
quote:
Originally posted by www.longstone.com:
Hi

I suppose here are my suggestions from what is available currently

early cars are easy 185/70VR15 and 215/70VR15 are both available from Avon CR6ZZ https://www.longstonetyres.co....yres/avon-cr6zz.html or Michelin XWX https://www.longstonetyres.co....es/michelin-xwx.html I would fit XWX. they are more of a road tyre. Pirelli make both these sizes, but not in the same tread pattern. and XWX is of course correct. XWX came out at the end of the '60s and was their flag ship tyre which was being fitted to cars like 6.9 Mercedes Ferrari's, and the early Countach.

this gets tricky. Goodyear aren't making any classic tyres. (except a few crossply tyres for pre war Model A Ford). we would really like to go down the rout of Pirelli's CN12, https://www.longstonetyres.co....-cinturato/cn12.html because it is period (1971). It has a very high speed rating (W), they are the only company to make the correct 255/60VR15. It wouldn't suprise meif they were a European option, becvause not many commpanies made thsi size tyre, but Pirelli did for the Aston Martin Vantage and the Lamborghini Muira SV. However Pirelli don't make a 205/60VR15 (why would you. it is not a comon classic car size) Pirelli do make a 205/70WR15 Cinturato CN12 which is high performance and matches the 255/60WR15 CN12 Rear. I suppose the question is can you fit a 205/70WR15 in the front. They will be a b it taller. Pirelli do also make a 215/60R15 CN36 wich will bit a little larger, but have a different tread pattern. However all these CN12 and CN36 tread patterns will be great road tyres and handle really well. The next best option i would think will again be Avon CR6 ZZ they do make a 275/55 https://www.longstonetyres.co....vr15-avon-cr6zz.html then you are left with the choice of 205/70VR15 or 215/60R15 again. If 205/70VR15 fits then you will be better off on the road with Pirelli, but if you need to fit 215/60R15 or 185/70VR15 then you do have the option of having the same tread pattern. Although i am a fan of same smaaller tyres on cars i think if you up the size of the rear, reverting back to 185/70 on the front could lead to some dramatic under steer, with the power on. I still think if you can fit 205/70 on the fron CN12 is the best option.

225/50R15 is easy https://www.longstonetyres.co....relli-cinturato.html they are on the shelf. what you do for the 285/50R15 rears for now i don't know, with there being only 100 cars it is difficult to ask a tyre manufacturer to make them

285/40R15 easy they are on the way from Pirelli. 345/35R15 No problem. i should have them in a month or so https://www.longstonetyres.co....li-cinturato-p7.html


How does this effect us in the US? You are in the UK?

Does Pirelli make the tires available to you or everyone in every market?
quote:
Originally posted by www.longstone.com:
285/50 is just OK on a 8" rim, but not really that good. a 285mm tyre is really over 11 inches wide.

Is there a good tyre available in the size 285/50R15?


With Pirelli making some of the P7’s again, I dug out an old P7 brochure from the early 1990’s. The recommended rim widths for a 285/50/15 were 8” to 10”s. The overall diameter is 26.22” and the cross section is 11.30”. The fact that the tires do fit on the 8” rims makes a great case that it would benefit significantly more than 100 cars. These would benefit any Pantera owner that still has 15” diameter wheels(8’s or 10’s) on a narrow body car.

It also has the 275/55/15” listed. Recommended rim widths are 7” to 9”. Overall diameter is 27.00”. Cross section is 10.51”. Although it is not recommended for a 10” wide rim, I believe that a friend of mine has this size on his car and they look decent.

I don’t believe there is a 285/50/15 from any tire company, if there was, I would still have my 15’s on my car.
Dougal, where did the 100 car limitation come from with regards to the 285/50/15? I haven’t read every post that closely.

I would think there is more potential to sell these than the 285/40/15. Although, I am very happy that they are going to produce the 40’s again for my wide body car. The car currently has P7’s on the front and P Zero’s on the rear.

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