In addition to Jimmy’s comments above; in the late 1980’s, Garry Hall paid to have Campagnolo (by then Technomagnesio) restore the tooling for the 15” x 10” wheels that are used on the rear of a regular body Pantera. As part of the deal, Garry imported a container load of these wheels. I believe he sold all of them and I think it’s safe to say, the majority wound up with 285/50-15 P7’s mounted on them. Pirelli certainly knows how many they sold during the decade they were available. Gauging potential demand should be fairly easy and I’m sure it’s far more than 200 tires!
quote:

Originally posted by www.longstone.com:

I suppose here are my suggestions from what is available currently ... early cars are easy 185/70VR15 and 215/70VR15 are both available from Avon CR6ZZ ...



quote:

Originally posted by www.longstone.com:

... the CR6ZZ ... which although it is a great track tyre isn't really ideal for a road car, specially if it doesn't do many miles ...



quote:

Originally posted by George P:

... I am not aware of any owner, not even among those whom are most discriminating in regards to originality, that want to equip their car with a 185/70 & 215/70 tyre set. I would discourage you from putting any effort in that direction ...






quote:

Originally posted by www.longstone.com:

... what you do for the 285/50R15 rears for now i don't know ...



They use 295/50R15, all of which are speed rated S. They also have to accept using different make and model tyres for the front and rear.

The 295/50R15 size tyre is 26.6 inches in diameter, 0.40" larger than the 285/50R15 size tyre. This creates two problems which people "live with". (1) The difference in diameter between that tyre and the 225/50R15 front tyre is 2.7", this upsets the intended level ride height of the chassis, giving the chassis a pronounced "nose-down" stance. (2)The 295/50R15 tyres "fill" the rear wheel arches more than the 225/50R15 front tyres fill the front wheel arches. This creates an aesthetic imbalance in the appearance of the car.




quote:

Originally posted by www.longstone.com:

... with there being only 100 cars it is difficult to ask a tyre manufacturer to make them ...



quote:

Originally posted by George P:

... Some owners adopted use of 225/50 and 285/50 P7s 20 to 30 years ago, only to have the rear tyre fall-out of production ...



quote:

Originally posted by David_Nunn:

... in the late 1980’s, Garry Hall paid to have Campagnolo (by then Technomagnesio) restore the tooling for the 15” x 10” wheels that are used on the rear of a regular body Pantera. As part of the deal, Garry imported a container load of these wheels. I believe he sold all of them and I think it’s safe to say, the majority wound up with 285/50-15 P7’s mounted on them. Pirelli certainly knows how many they sold during the decade they were available. Gauging potential demand should be fairly easy and I’m sure it’s far more than 200 tires!



The majority of GTS and Group 3 Panteras were originally equipped with Goodyear Arrivas, only the small number manufactured after 1978 were originally equipped with 225/50 and 285/50 P7s. However, be assured that P7s eventually found their way onto all the earlier models as well. On top of that, as both David and I have tried to explain in our own ways, the factory's entire stock of spare 15 x 10 wheels, plus a cargo container load of additional wheels, have been installed on some of the 6,600 Pushbutton, Pre-L, and L model Panteras. The demand for the 15x10 wheel is so great that TWO aftermarket companies offer them. The aftermarket versions have not sold in large numbers simply because the proper tires have not been available. Suffice it to say that the demand for the 225/50 and 285/50 tyre set exceeds the demand for the 285/40 and 345/35 tyre set. A conservative estimate would be perhaps 600 cars.

-G
I think we have to take it one step at a time.

225/50YR15 P7 is available https://www.longstonetyres.co....relli-cinturato.html that is a step forward.

345/35ZR15 P7 will be available any day now https://www.longstonetyres.co....li-cinturato-p7.html also good news.

285/40ZR15 P7 available soon. that has to be a massive step forward for you guys, because that is an odd tyre sized, that is doesn't really make sense to make. However Pirelli are currently celebrating there heritage. so we benefit. and by benefit. It is my business, but i will trade fairly. so look what you can currently buy a 345/35R15 tyre for and if all goes well you will be really pleased with the price of the up and coming P7. Also bare in mind that the 255/60R15 CN12 was only available through Lamborghini the were over 1`500 GB P https://www.longstonetyres.co....-cinturato-cn12.html

Here is where i'm going to get controversial. fitting 345/35R15 tyres on a car do not make it handle well. it gives you epic levels of grip, but it doesn't make it handle. and fitting 285 section tyres is just bonkers. However, i do get it because it is cool. but lets not kid our selves that massively fat tyres make a car handle well, cos they don't. yes straight line stopping is epic. yes for the staggering amounts of power it does diminish wheel spin, but it does not handle. you can't change the laws of physics.

The question of 285/50R15 P7 tyres. for now i suggest fitting 255/60R15 CN12 Cinturato. If you want wider then 275/55R15 Avon CR6ZZ https://www.longstonetyres.co....vr15-avon-cr6zz.html or 295/50R15 CR6ZZ https://www.longstonetyres.co....vr15-avon-cr6zz.html please don't fit wobbly side walled crap tyres. have some European carcasses on your tyres.

I can't believe you would consider fitting an S rated tyre. what make of 295/50R15 are you fitting.

It may have sounded like i was criticizing Pantera Doug's choice of Avon CR6ZZ tyres, but really until recently they are by far the the best handling tyres. I mean by miles. what 295/50R15 are being fitted currently?

Please don't criticize Pirelli for what they are doing currently because it is brilliant!

As to making 285/50R15 P7. may be it will happen. specially if the 285/40R15 P7 sells well


CAN I GET THESE TYRES IN THE US? - YES - LUCAS CLASSIC TYRES https://www.lucasclassictires....li-Cinturato_c54.htm THEY MIGHT NOT BE LISTED ON THEIR WEB SITE. BUT THEY WILL BE DISTRIBUTING THEM SO LEAVE A BACK ORDER, AND THEY WILL LOOK AFTER YOU.
Still no answer about the 285/ 55 R15, I know I write badly in English but I think I'm understandable anyway.

The cars are less handle with 285 or more, it's true but when used on public roads, it's better not to be cross in all turns Smiler

The 285/40 W R15 already exists at Michelin in road homologated racing tire and the 225/50 exists in the same profile.

http://www.oldtimerreifen24.de...15-TB5-R-medium.html
quote:
Originally posted by www.longstone.com:
I think we have to take it one step at a time.

225/50YR15 P7 is available https://www.longstonetyres.co....relli-cinturato.html that is a step forward.

345/35ZR15 P7 will be available any day now https://www.longstonetyres.co....li-cinturato-p7.html also good news.

285/40ZR15 P7 available soon. that has to be a massive step forward for you guys, because that is an odd tyre sized, that is doesn't really make sense to make. However Pirelli are currently celebrating there heritage. so we benefit. and by benefit. It is my business, but i will trade fairly. so look what you can currently buy a 345/35R15 tyre for and if all goes well you will be really pleased with the price of the up and coming P7. Also bare in mind that the 255/60R15 CN12 was only available through Lamborghini the were over 1`500 GB P https://www.longstonetyres.co....-cinturato-cn12.html

Here is where i'm going to get controversial. fitting 345/35R15 tyres on a car do not make it handle well. it gives you epic levels of grip, but it doesn't make it handle. and fitting 285 section tyres is just bonkers. However, i do get it because it is cool. but lets not kid our selves that massively fat tyres make a car handle well, cos they don't. yes straight line stopping is epic. yes for the staggering amounts of power it does diminish wheel spin, but it does not handle. you can't change the laws of physics.

The question of 285/50R15 P7 tyres. for now i suggest fitting 255/60R15 CN12 Cinturato. If you want wider then 275/55R15 Avon CR6ZZ https://www.longstonetyres.co....vr15-avon-cr6zz.html or 295/50R15 CR6ZZ https://www.longstonetyres.co....vr15-avon-cr6zz.html please don't fit wobbly side walled crap tyres. have some European carcasses on your tyres.

I can't believe you would consider fitting an S rated tyre. what make of 295/50R15 are you fitting.

It may have sounded like i was criticizing Pantera Doug's choice of Avon CR6ZZ tyres, but really until recently they are by far the the best handling tyres. I mean by miles. what 295/50R15 are being fitted currently?

Please don't criticize Pirelli for what they are doing currently because it is brilliant!

As to making 285/50R15 P7. may be it will happen. specially if the 285/40R15 P7 sells well


CAN I GET THESE TYRES IN THE US? - YES - LUCAS CLASSIC TYRES https://www.lucasclassictires....li-Cinturato_c54.htm THEY MIGHT NOT BE LISTED ON THEIR WEB SITE. BUT THEY WILL BE DISTRIBUTING THEM SO LEAVE A BACK ORDER, AND THEY WILL LOOK AFTER YOU.


What I say here carries little influence throughout the Pantera community. I accept my comments as fair game to criticism. That's ok with me.

Here's my qualification. I have NO vested interest in promoting one tire over another.

ANY tire choice here is a compromise on a Pantera. There is not going to be a perfect choice.

What works and what doesn't work is what tire satisfies the "criteria" best. The criteria is the choice of the purchaser.

We can debate until the cows come home but even major magazines funded by tire companies that do a shootout rarely can settle on one specific combination because they can't settle on the criteria that those tires need to satisfy.

Being a person who's first experience with "high performance" street tires was the Goodyear Polyglass, ANY of the tires we can buy today are in another and a better universe then they are and certainly 1000% better then the Goodyear Arriva's that the US Panteras were delivered with new.

I applaud ANY effort someone like Pirelli makes on supplying these "old" tires and say thank you Pirelli and thank you to Dougal. Big Grin
Dougal, I think it is great that Pirelli is going to make some of these tires again. That is some of the best news for Pantera owners wanting to keep their stock rims. I plan on purchasing a complete set when they become available. Thank you as well for listening and being an intermediary.
quote:
Originally posted by René #4406:
Still no answer about the 285/ 55 R15, I know I write badly in English but I think I'm understandable anyway.


Does anyone make a 285/55R15? It isn't OE. I never get asked for that tyre. I suppose also, though it might be the same diameter as a 255/60 the outer extremities of the tyre might be an issue rubbing.

quote:
Originally posted by René #4406:The 285/40 W R15 already exists at Michelin in road homologated racing tire and the 225/50 exists in the same profile.

http://www.oldtimerreifen24.de...15-TB5-R-medium.html


yep we do the TB range also https://www.longstonetyres.co....0-classic-tyres.html no doubt they are fantastic tyres, i have raced on them. However we are in the same situation as we are with the CR6ZZ. great tyre, but using racing rubber on a car that doesn't necessarily do lots of road miles, isn't really ideal. but they are great. you can run TB15 fully treaded or TB5 which are road legal semi slick tyres
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
What I say here carries little influence throughout the Pantera community. I accept my comments as fair game to criticism. That's ok with me.

Here's my qualification. I have NO vested interest in promoting one tire over another.



Your coments and opinions have influence on me. Your the fitment guides and quantities of cars i have saved and will be using them in discussions with Pirelli when considering what tyres to make in the future.


quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug: ANY tire choice here is a compromise on a Pantera. There is not going to be a perfect choice.

What works and what doesn't work is what tire satisfies the "criteria" best. The criteria is the choice of the purchaser.


Well i think we have the early cars sorted out with the XWX. https://www.longstonetyres.co....es/michelin-xwx.html I would think that was one of the best tyres in period and is perfect now. I don't think there are any compromises there for early '70s cars.

The good news for the near future is we will have 285/40R15 P7 & 345/35R15 P7 https://www.longstonetyres.co....li-cinturato/p7.html so for the later cars again we will. so hopefully that will be another batch of cars where we have the best possible set up with no compromise.

We have a 225/50R15 P7 so we are half way to sorting out the 79 -84 cars. all we need is a 285/50R15 P7

So i think thats pretty good going.

quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:I applaud ANY effort someone like Pirelli makes on supplying these "old" tires and say thank you Pirelli and thank you to Dougal. Big Grin


Thank you.
quote:
Originally posted by www.longstone.com:
quote:
Originally posted by René #4406:
Still no answer about the 285/ 55 R15, I know I write badly in English but I think I'm understandable anyway.


Does anyone make a 285/55R15? It isn't OE. I never get asked for that tyre. I suppose also, though it might be the same diameter as a 255/60 the outer extremities of the tyre might be an issue rubbing.


Thank you, I have my answer, they never existed for "normal" cars, they exist only for 4x4. Are 4x4 tires very different?
quote:

Originally posted by George P:

... They also have to accept using different make and model tyres for the front and rear.

The 295/50R15 size tyre is 26.6 inches in diameter, 0.40" larger than the 285/50R15 size tyre. This creates two problems which people "live with". (1) The difference in diameter between that tyre and the 225/50R15 front tyre is 2.7", this upsets the intended level ride height of the chassis, giving the chassis a pronounced "nose-down" stance. (2)The 295/50R15 tyres "fill" the rear wheel arches more than the 225/50R15 front tyres fill the front wheel arches. This creates an aesthetic imbalance in the appearance of the car.



quote:

Originally posted by David_Nunn:

... in the late 1980’s, Garry Hall paid to have Campagnolo (by then Technomagnesio) restore the tooling for the 15” x 10” wheels that are used on the rear of a regular body Pantera. As part of the deal, Garry imported a container load of these wheels. I believe he sold all of them and I think it’s safe to say, the majority wound up with 285/50-15 P7’s mounted on them. Pirelli certainly knows how many they sold during the decade they were available. Gauging potential demand should be fairly easy and I’m sure it’s far more than 200 tires!



quote:

Originally posted by George P:

The majority of GTS and Group 3 Panteras were originally equipped with Goodyear Arrivas, only the small number manufactured after 1978 were originally equipped with 225/50 and 285/50 P7s. However, be assured that P7s eventually found their way onto all the earlier models as well. On top of that, as both David and I have tried to explain in our own ways, the factory's entire stock of spare 15 x 10 wheels, plus a cargo container load of additional wheels, have been installed on some of the 6,600 Pushbutton, Pre-L, and L model Panteras. The demand for the 15x10 wheel is so great that TWO aftermarket companies offer them. The aftermarket versions have not sold in large numbers simply because the proper tires have not been available. Suffice it to say that the demand for the 225/50 and 285/50 tyre set exceeds the demand for the 285/40 and 345/35 tyre set. A conservative estimate would be perhaps 600 cars.

-G


George makes a great point, the 295’s are taller than the 285’s and when used in conjunction with a 225 it does not fill the wheel wells equally. It can give the car a slight rake. The 295’s also do not have a great matching front tire forcing owners to run non matching tires or brands.

David made a great point, Pirelli should have records of exactly how many 285’s were sold when they were being produced.

Dougal, I noticed that you posted again about the 79-84 cars that used these tires, however the production number is very misleading. As George, myself, and David tried to explain, there is a much greater number of cars that have or had the 15x10’s mounted.

The 15x10” wheels are currently being offered by Mrfiat.

The 285’s will fit on any narrow body Pantera using any rim that is between 15x8 to 15x10 as stated in Pirelli’s P7 tire brochure.
Not that I'm aware of, Rene. Pirelli occasionally makes a close analogue size 275-55x 15" P-7R, speed-rated street tire that properly fits an 8" Campy, or with a little stretching, a 10" Campy. And in spite of whats on the Internet, I'm told by a Pireli rep' that Pirelli's 'R' designation does NOT mean 'race' but instead means 'rally', as the P-7R's internal construction added extra belts just underneath the tread area. This was to restrict tire growth at speed, so precision rally speedometer/odometers would register more accurate speeds and distances.

4X4 or light-truck tires tend to have stiff sidewalls suited for carrying heavy loads. They also tend NOT to be made with sticky compounds, so their handling and ride performance is... truck-like. They are also not high-speed-rated. I suspect your local yearly registration inspectors will reject them for use on a high-speed sports-GT, but it's been many years since I visited France so things may have changed.
quote:
Originally posted by René #4406:
And they could be 2017 Smiler

I do not know, but I do not think that the BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KD existed 20 years ago and this saler is in the US, it is easier for you to ask about than for me.


I'll inquire if you want to know but the listed price is suspect. As far as I know the 15 inch Comp T/A's were discontinued 20 years ago.

These could be left overs someone found in the back of the warehouse?
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
quote:
Originally posted by René #4406:
And they could be 2017 Smiler

I do not know, but I do not think that the BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KD existed 20 years ago and this saler is in the US, it is easier for you to ask about than for me.


I'll inquire if you want to know but the listed price is suspect. As far as I know the 15 inch Comp T/A's were discontinued 20 years ago.

These could be left overs someone found in the back of the warehouse?


Yes, it is possible.
OK. Tried the contact "phone numbers". First off, there is no such combination of phone numbers in the US.

Secondly, the street address doesn't exist or isn't indentified to anything like Prof-tire.

Thirdly, tires isn't spelled tyres in the US. That is a UK spelling.

So take your pick of what the issue is. Most likely this is a VERY old link that came up on the Internet but the inconsistencies associated with it tend to suggest that it is a scam listing.

True, the link comes up as working on the 'net, but it looks like a wild goose chase?

That's all that I can come up with. It looks like a 20 or 30 year old listing according to the price and those tires haven't been available in 15 inch diameters in about that long of a period of time.
quote:
Originally posted by jimmym:
Dougal, I noticed that you posted again about the 79-84 cars that used these tires, however the production number is very misleading. As George, myself, and David tried to explain, there is a much greater number of cars that have or had the 15x10’s mounted.

The 15x10” wheels are currently being offered by Mrfiat.

The 285’s will fit on any narrow body Pantera using any rim that is between 15x8 to 15x10 as stated in Pirelli’s P7 tire brochure.


Hi

Yep i get it.

the 285/40R15 P7 is in the pipe line and will be happening reasonably soon as will the rear.

And as i understand there is what sounds like a good demand for a 285/50R15 as well i shall look into getting them made. It would help if they fitted another car as well. The 285/40R15 is also going to sell to Porsche guys as well which helps make it viable.
205/70R15 is 26.3 inches diameter.
215/65R15 is 26.0 inches diameter
235/60R15 is 26.1 inches diameter.
F60-15 is 26.1 inches diameter.
255/55R15 is 26.04 inches diameter.
285/50R15 is 26.2 inches diameter.

Size My Tires/Compatible Vehicles

According to the link above 235/60R15 size tires are OEM for Camaro/Firebird, DeLorean, Jaguar XJS, and Lotus Esprit. Plus the F60-15 size tire was a very common tire on 1969 and later American muscle cars, such as Mustang. Nothing comes-up for 285/50R15 however.
The Mickey Thompson 26-12-15, fits into that chart as a 305-48.8-15. I like that fit better.

They are an H which is good for 130mph.

Before V's were available we were running BFG's (S @ 112mph) on high speed track days. I NEVER saw one fail AND in the '70s, people were using them for race wets.

I've seen the Autobahn. If you guys can drive 200mph on that thing then you can do it on our bobsled runs here. Panteras get just a little unstable somewhere over 150-155. They only do 200 in video games.

That's all social status stuff. I don't play that game. Don't get your Gucci loafers scuffed. I wear beat up sneakers and torn jeans.
Here is a picture of a '74. I don't know who's car this is.
It has the 15x10" rear Campis and what looks like the 305-50-15 BFG Euro t/a's on it.
The Mickey Thompson's are the same size and will fit like this also. Just a different tire tread and an H-130mph speed rating.

Attachments

Photos (1)
yes. and it is all good news. They are on the shelf ready for despatch.

Follow these links and you can buy them on line.

285/40R15 P7 https://www.longstonetyres.co....li-cinturato-p7.html

&

345/35R15 P7 https://www.longstonetyres.co....to-p7/category/2606/

And in the States

285 = https://www.lucasclassictires....RATO-P7-2854015p.htm

&

345 = https://www.lucasclassictires....RATO-P7-3453515P.htm

Hi

 I'm sorry if I am spamming this comment a little but I would like to try to rally up as much support as possible so I don't want anyone that might be interested to miss it. I hope you'll agree it is for a good cause. I have the blessings of the forum administrator.

I have made a De Tomaso Pantera  web page, here's a link: 
 Longstone Tyres - De Tomaso Pantera page
Please let me know if you see any mistakes. Any pictures you have that might make it better please send them over.

 Importantly if you may be interested in a set of the 285/50R15 P7 tyres please drop me a note via the "contact us" link so we can keep your email on file and use that collection of email addresses to convince Pirelli to make these tyres.

A few of my personal thoughts on tire and wheel sizes FOR THE STREET; all have been tested by myself and my wife over 39 yrs of ownership with no crashes.

If you're attempting to maximize tread width and cornering, 225-50 x 15" fronts on 8" wide Campys seem a bit stretched. I don't use the 7" Campy version, I use 245-50x 15"s- about the widest front tread size one can run on an unflared Pantera body regardless of wheel diameter. Even then, some minor hammer-contouring must be done on the inner fender panels and fender lips rolled, for clearance in tight turns. More so if the U.S DOT bumper-height/headlight height spring spacers are removed and extra caster added. 8" Campy front wheels also correct the poor scrub-radius produced by 7" Campys. I suspect Dallara's first recommendation for the Pantera was for 8" fronts.... or else the excellent fit is pleasantly coincidental.

The first instance of 10" x 15" 'DeTomaso' Campy 5-window wheels were on the Euro Pantera GTS/Gr-3, noted in the 1972 GTS/Gr-3 Supplemental Pantera Parts Catalogue. Along with those wheels were listed 225-50 x15" P-7 front tires and 285-50x 15" P-7 rear tires. The rears were about the widest street tires available at the time and were used in club-racing & hill-climbs. 295-50 street sizes were not yet available or go-fasters would have snapped them up! GR-4 and GT-4 racers, of course used even wider slick 'gumball' racing tires with relocated a-arm points and flares.

 The 245-50 front/295-50 rear tire combination works well on the street on our '72, but to maximize big tire benefits, I use stock OD HOLLOW front antisway bars and HOLLOW 1" OD rear antisway bars. Hollow bars cold-bent of thickwall 4130 tubing are slightly less stiff than replacement solid bars of the same OD. The softer hollow-bar action works well with an otherwise stock Pantera chassis and drops about 50% of the unsprung weight of the bars. I also found it necessary to add Koni adjustable shocks front & rear with different springs (available in the '72 Gr-3 catalogue).

All this, along with all-custom alignment specs, a 2 degree nose-down attitude and a minimal Peter Revson front spoiler (the Gr-3 catalogue lists an equivalent front blade spoiler but I like Revson's curvy design), allows us to take full advantage of the remarkable handling and high speed stability Dallara gave the Pantera. Above 170 mph, a blade rear spoiler (or wing) might be needed for added anti-lift, according to regular SS runners. And if you're running way up there on the speedo on the street, you don't need MY suggestions! You may need a Viet Nam era 'get-out-of-jail-free' card, though...YMMV.

J DeRyke

Jack, good historical info.

There is also a benefit to going smaller on a given wheel width, stretching the tire a small amount. This promotes better sidewall action especially with modern performance tires using stiff sidewall construction.

My experiment with a 235/50-15 Toyo R888R on a 15”x10” wheel yielded some good benefits in transition speed due to the stiff sidewalls being at a more desirable angle in relation to the wheel bead.

Is ultimate overall lateral grip lower? Possibly. Is the reduced overall grip offset by more transition speed in mid corner performance? Possibly.

I have yet to perform instrumented testing back to back with a wider tire. That would prove challenging since same model tires in different, but appropriate tires sizes aren’t easy to come by in the 15” diameter.

I can only comment on track testing which proved to be excellent. The 235 R888R performed superbly on the 10” wheel. Ultimate lateral grip was stupendous and transitioning was much better than a “too wide” tire would have provided.

Another thing to consider is that published tire sizes are often guides rather than actual measurements. Case in point, the 235 R888R is actually 9.7” in width, which predicted its favourable performance and fit on an otherwise unadvisable 10” wide wheel.

Other 225 or 245 mm tires are often much narrower than their published widths may suggest.

However, for looks on the street, it may not be an aesthetic choice for most.

I was hoping to hear from someone who is running these new P7s at higher speed (over 100mph) extended to get their impressions versus the existing TB5/15, P7 Corsa Classic, P Zero, Avon and Yokohama AVS options that have been available.

The Get Out Of Jail Free card sure sounds good!

LS

 

GO TO JAIL

Lash apparently Dougal isn't following this topic. To get an answer to your question it may be more expedient to contact him via the Longstone Tyre website.

Jack, it is true the 15x10 Campy wheels came on the scene in late 1972 or 1973, but the 225mm & 285mm Pirelli P7s came on the scene in late 1977 or 1978. The 15x10 Campys where manufactured for a different tire which came on the scene in the summer of 1972 … the H60V15 Goodyear Arriva. It followed De Tomaso's convention of fitting tires on the widest wheel possible. The 15x10 wheel offset makes much better sense with a 255mm wide tire, which is set about 15mm inside the fender edge.

Attachments

Photos (1)
lashss posted:

Dougal, I assume these “new” 285 and 345 P7s are fully endorsed (as noted by their official speed rating) for extended, high speed use?

Anyone with first hand experience on these “new” P7s at extended high speed?

Thank you,

LS

these tyres are Y rated 

https://www.longstonetyres.co....li-cinturato-p7.html

https://www.longstonetyres.co....li-cinturato-p7.html

so that is 300kmh (thats about 200mph). the load and speed ratings are listed on these pages

I have a question nevertheless, a tire 285x40x15 is 11.4% smaller than the OE 255x60x15  and the 345x35x15 is 9.4% smaller.

Beyond the problem of technical controls if they are meddlesome,  doesn't it have true problems? 

 

Rene, running slightly larger OD  but narrower rear tires causes no particular problem on a Pantera. All they do is slightly re-gear the final drive to the pavement and, if you have the torque available, maybe a bit more speed in all gears. I ran 275-55x 15" Pirelli P-7Rs on 8" Campys for 15 years , before a pair of 10" Campys fell into my lap. As mentioned in my 1st post, wider wheels & tires are for maximizing traction and handling. If that's not your primary goal, a narrower, taller rear tire will work fine, look OK and can even be 'adjusted' outboard a bit for better appearance with wheel shims.There's plenty of clearance for even giant rear tires with proper wheel backspace. Front tires are a completely different story.

The 285x40-15" tire was the first really wide street-type radial tire available to the public, so thats what wound up on Gr-3s with the optional 10" rear Campys. If 295-50s or 305-50s had been available, DeTomaso and the racers would have gone with those. Many Gr-3s ran gumball race tires on track or during hill climbs, or in some cases they used treaded racing rain tires because with most Gr-3 club-racers, they WERE interested in maxing traction, not necessarily in European street legality or tire longevity.

One 275/55 has almost the same diameter that the OE tires but one 285/40 is much smaller, the back of the car will be 1"1/2 lower and there will be more space  of 1"1/2  between the wheels and the wings, that should not be pretty.


Is anybody running the OEM Size Michelin XWX  used on early pre L cars of 185/70VR15 fronts and 215/70VR15 rears? Coker Tire sells them, but I want to make sure they dont look wimpy, compared to the Avon tires I am used to. Its only used for street driving, no racing. Any photos out there?

Here are some pictures with OEM tires. I have a set on my car. Yes they look wimpy especially from the rear, and they don't feel good on the road. I have decided to take mine off and go with wider tires, and just keep the OEM's as a spare. Good for originality show, but not for GO!

https://www.mecum.com/lots/CA0...72-detomaso-pantera/

Adjustable shocks so the car can be lowered would improve the looks IMO, but then you are breaking from originality again.

I wonder if anyone has tried Mickey Thompson Tires?

The Sportsman S/R are available in 26x10 (255/55) and 26x12 (305/45) in 15 inch. They even have the european E-Label on them, which make them street legal in the EU. the 26x12-15 is just 2% smaller than the 285/50-15, which is closer than the 275/55-15 Avon (3% bigger).

https://www.mickeythompsontire...-tires/sportsman-s-r

The ET Street S/S are available in a number of different sizes but look a bit sporty for the street.

https://www.mickeythompsontire...-tires/et-street-s-s

Does anyone have experience with these tires?

Pirelli has (or had) a 'Special Projects' tire building shop in Izmir (eastern Turkey) where limited market tires have been built for decades. Problem is, I understand that's also the tire shop where all the F-1 and other pro racing tires are built. Guess which takes precedence during the racing season? Nevertheless, a few such tires do trickle out- to be instantly grabbed by Euro dealers who have standing (paid-for) orders.

That's what happened up to about 2015, anyway. You need to talk to someone in the know located in Europe about today's situation. The Swedish Pantera Owners Club has gotten hold of a few dozen tires that way in the past, but the market is limited for 285-50x15 for 10" Campy rears and a few other brands of street cars. While the smaller OD 285-40 x 15s are used for Countache, Porsche & wide-body Pantera fronts; much bigger market. My info is dated- the last tires I got thru the Swedish Club was early '90s and that was a group buy with the European Lambo Owners Club. Good luck-

I was just e-mailing with Dougal (Longstone tyres) about that Pirelli 285 / 50 R 15 tyre. He said, that he has a list of people waiting for that tyre, but that list is unfortunately a very short list. He also said, that he should be meeting some Pirelli people in October and they should be discussing the production of new sizes. So maybe, if you are interested in that size, it just might be good to add your name on that list before that meeting. I have been on that list for a long time, but I doubt that my interest for one set means very much for Pirelli... dougal@longstonetyres.co.uk 

 

Kjeld, I‘m also invested in this tire combination. The Avons are track tires, but still street legal. They have about 5mm of useful tread depth and are made with a soft compound, meaning relatively rapid wear with outstanding traction, but will also pick-up small stones and shoot them to rear of the car. Avons are used by the Cobra colleagues and you will find plenty of interesting threads in their forums. Alternatives are Pirelli P12 in 255/60/VR15 and Pirelli P6000 in 205/60/VR15.

I don't but a bunch of Shelby and Cobra guys are using them. There is a guy in LA who will actually convert them into Goodyear raised white letter tires for you. They look like vintage Goodyear race tires and perform like that also.
I've heard that about throwing stones since the compound is soft and stick to everything.

I know one 66 owner that says he gets over 10,000 miles on them but I'd expect less. I was getting about 3,500 out of W rated on my SHO.


> Reply By eugenioinnocenti: Tires for OEM 15 inch wheels On September 17, 2019 at 4:31 PM The De Tomaso Forums <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
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> Kjeld, I‘m also invested in this tire combination. The Avon’s are track tires, but still street legal. They have about 5mm of useful tread depth and are made with a soft compound, meaning relatively rapid wear with outstanding traction, but will also pick-up small stones and shoot them to rear of the car. Avons are used by the Cobra colleagues and you will find plenty of interesting threads in their forums.
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Kjeld, I used the Avon 215-60-15 but used 275-55-15 for the rear as they are closer to the exact measurments of the original Arriva tires. They look and fit perfect and the only issue was they are very sticky rubber which does throw up a lot of stones and debris depending on the road conditions.

Here is a link with photos of the tires on a car that I sold at RM a while ago.

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auct...era-l-by-ghia/545607

Good luck, Glenn

thanks for the input.

215-60-15 is really close to the height (- 0,16%) of the original 185-70-15.

I think 215 is right with on an 7 inch. 185 is to small.

245-60-15 also close to the height (-1,03%) of the original 215-70-15.

I think 245 is the right with on an 8 inch. 215 is to small.

The only problem is that the only match tires i can find in this dimention is AVON and they are so expensive. 

Kjeld

 

Kjeld, I‘ve spent many hours searching for tires. The Avons are the best compromise. The cheapest I have found are at MOR in Munich. Would be interesting to seek out the number of potential buyers from the Pantera and Cobra communities for a more streetable version of the CR6ZZ tire and approach Avon with this information. If the demand (money) is there, they might just do it.

300km/h rating for the new Pirelli P7 is exactly what we needed!

Now we have yet another modern, high speed 15” choice.

Fingers crossed that they are lighter than the 345mm P Zero.

It is a great time to be on stock wheels...

EDIT- looks like the new P7 is 3lbs lighter than the P Zero in the 345mm size. Bravo!

 

 

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