Suggested mods/upgrades for stock wiring harness

I have not gotten to this phase yet, just "thinking" what I might want. So please keep posting an update as you progress.

my "thoughts" so far have been to replace fuse block, but add some relaying to take current off of ignition switch.

Now seems like a good time to route heavy guage "primary" fused circuits to the up front radiator fan, and to the ignition area, and wire in relays at these spots.

Now is probably a good time to figure out the replacement plan to install a voltmeter, instead of an ammeter in your console.

Are you going to run the stock alternator with the remote voltage regulator?

What ignition do you plan to use?

Figure those out early, probably easier to plan the wiring with the harness out.

Do you need any other circuits? Stereo?

The fusebox modified for blade fuses (Jon Haas or PPC) that uses the stock connections is certainly the easiest install.

Remember, the enemy of "good enough" is better....

Do you KNOW you need all that stuff?

If money, time and work are no object, then go for it!

Rocky

WOW Rocky, looks like your suggestions will be the first ones on my harness resto list.
This project may take longer than I was expecting but I'd rather bite the bullet now than have to address a harness issue later when I'm having Fun driving the car.
Thanks,
Bill

BTW Rocky,
Money and time are things I have to be concerned with so I'll have to pick the most urgent harness mods/upgrades and do them now and the others I can address as time/money allows. Also need to do the mods that are the hardest to get to Now while it's easier to get to everything.

Bill,

Welcome to Pantera ownership, when I got my first Pantera I was uninformed and started reading all the forums etc. and became overloaded with a list of projects I thought I needed to do to make the car reliable. The problem is it's cumulative, you are only on the wiring right now, if you take this approach to the whole car you'll be years out and likely get frustrated.

The wiring harness is not a concern and you say it is good condition, I know of no one who has replaced it for the sake of it! Fact is there are a lot of Pantera's out there that are reliable and haven't been modified at all! The only wiring I have upgraded on my '74 is replacing a couple relays with modern equivalents.

My recommendation; stop reading it's just a distraction from getting work done! Focus on putting the car back together with all the parts you have, there really isn't much you 'have to do' while it's apart. Get it running, drive it and live with it for a while and you will gain a much better idea of what you want your Pantera to be like. This is by far the best path forward to end up with the car of your dreams and for you wallet.

Julian

Bill,

I have to agree with Julian. Just put the car together and get it running. Driving it will expose any areas you'd like to modify. Even if you insist on a few of the P.E. mods, have them ready, so you can swap them in once the car's together and running. None of them are more than a Saturday afternoon job. You'll save time and have a better understanding of the mods. You'll appreciate them more too.

Joules and David,
I like the way you're thinking. Just get it running and then you can fix stuff and the money is available.
Only issue with that plan (are there any mods/improvements I need to make while the car is a shell and not put together?)
BTW I have a Fluidyne radiator to replace the stock unit.

Most immediate I would install a volt meter in place of the ammeter, every once in a while the ammeter gets things in the interior a little too hot (causes fires). Hall Pantera has a replacement voltmeter. Also disassemble the ignition switch and clean the contacts. That will save a lot head scratching right there.

Less immediate, electrical gremlins resulting from poor fuse connections have been an issue since the cars were new. Larry Stock, proprietor of Pantera Parts Connection, modifies the OEM fuse box to accept modern fuses. Its really not a wiring modification, just a drop-in replacement. But it saves having to wiggle fuses to get thing to work.

Eventually there are 3 loads to remove from the ignition switch: (1) The radiator fans, (2) the ignition, and (3) the headlights. The fan circuit is a wonky design to begin with, that's why I listed it first. None of these have to be done right away.

When voltage regulation becomes an issue replace the OEM mechanical voltage regulator with a solid state replacement.

First thing I did when I got my Pantera was the replace the fuse box from Pantera Electronics. Great addition.

I'm starting to boil down my list. Once I make the list maybe you guys can help me with the Prioritization. This is going to be my Dream Resto. Doesn't get any better than this. Only wish I could hire an assembly crew from one of those shows on the Velocity channel to give me a hand and shorten the time to completion

quote:

Originally posted by BillT:...Only wish I could hire an assembly crew from one of those shows on the Velocity channel to give me a hand and shorten the time to completion

Oh, I am sure you could HIRE them! Maybe even put a "dinosuar bone" rear scoop on it!

back to your electrical...have you found this site with SOBill's work
http://www.panteraplace.com/page107.htm

Bill,

Pantera owners are a bit more sparse in your neck of the woods, but on the left coast the promise of beer and pizza usually gets a bunch of guys (and gals) coming over for a wrenching session to help.

Julian

Hi Bill,

I'm based out of Monroe, originally from the big easy. Working on my second Pantera, learned the hard way on a lot of issues since there is little support in this neck of the woods.
Just took the first road trip of any distance from Monroe to Little Rock last week. No problems other than being worn out when I got there.
Let me know how I can help. This forum is great and has most of the info you need, despite opinions by many that differ.....but that's part of it.

While working on the wiring harness I was thinking about installing Dynamat in the Interior compartment to dampen sound and heat. Have you guys used this product. Would you recommend it? Is there something better for sound/heat? Does installing this product make it harder to install the interior components?
Sorry, I have a Million questions ...
Thanks

BillT; Installed Dynamat in my interior for sound and heat. Just be sure when applying that you mark and cut out the areas where you attach the components (seats, belts, and any add'l items)

Pictures worth a thousand words, Thanks for the pic and comments. I'll bake those into my plan.

BillT; Regarding your electrical concerns, may I suggest that since your wiring is out of the car, go to the website that JFB05177 suggested (www.panteraplace.com/page107.htm), and scroll down to the section where you can download the complete wiring diagram, and have it blown up in size for ease in following the wiring. (Had mine blown up 36"x24")
Personally, I did the color coded diagram which helped immensely when labeling and following wires, and conducting continuity checks. I also removed the hardened, brittle, sheathing encasing the wires to more easily check the wiring. When installing, I reassembled the wiring in a protective casement.

What type of 'protective casement' did you use?

BillT; Most of the auto parts chains carry electrical sheathing in various diameters to protect the wiring from chafing. The largest bundle of wires will be under the dash running from the fuse box to the instrument cluster and is secured by the metal prongs that bend over the wires to secure the harness. I used shrink wrap over the metal prongs & electrical tape around the wiring to protect the wiring. The other large wire loom will be from the fuse box, through the right rocker panel feeding the rear wiring harness.

Thanks for the details ...

One more thing Bill. DeTomaso being in Italy, there are THREE different factory wiring diagrams, and most have found that NONE are completely accurate to any known Pantera thanks to undocumented running changes in production. So buy the schematic that has a published date closest to your car's build date and be prepared to liberally annotate it to match your individual machine as you get further into the system. There are German, English and Italian electrical devices in there.... A good VOM and patience is your best friend.

I'll look for the correct publish date and try to be patient but after lusting for a Pantera for 44 years it's going to be tough to be patient with one sitting in my garage wanting to get out and run ...
Thanks for the tips
Bill

BillT; Patience is virtue! I know how you feel about wanting to get out and show & go; however, the more you can accomplish in recognizing the wiring and the circuit's function, the less likely you'll find yourself in the the position I found myself in with all the limited space under the dash. Plus, there are some REALLY tight and sharp edges under there. HA,HA!

...I got rid of The Fuse Block and ALL Fuses, Then Wired-In Circuit-Breakers. And Separated All 'Siamesed' Circuits. Never Again Find and Replace a Fuse.
Second, EVERY Circuit (Especially the IGNITION) is Ran Through a Relay with a Minimum, 30 AMP Contacts. LED's of Different Colors are Used to Verify Circuits are LIVE. Use 'Shrink Tubing' on ALL Terminals. Most Gauges are RED LED Digital, and are NOT ran through a Relay.
Last, adding a 200 AMP Cut-Off switch (near the Battery in Front Trunk) Will save finding a Drained Battery after Weeks of Non-Operation. Also, it's the Best 'Theft Deterrent' any amount of Money can Buy!

You have to Know Exactly what You are Doing!

Jag13cat, I'll probably be in that pic position for a while ...
Marlin, I got lost in all of the upgrades you did. Looks like I need a lesson or two
Thanks guys

I agree with Marlin one hundred percent on the battery cut off switch in the front trunk.

Super addition. I can work on all my electrics without having to worry about shorting anything out, and I can turn off my car with the flip (twist) of a switch.

In addition - I have actually seen a car that was having an electrical problems saved, by having the ability to disconnect the battery from the remainder of the wiring.

It's a very easy, and inexpensive modification.

Rocky,
The battery cut-off switch is something I install on every classic car I buy.
Thanks for the suggestions ...

quote:

Originally posted by BillT:
I recently purchased Dave Ferrot's #5972 project Pantera.

A prior owner to Dave completed paint/body work and part of the purchase price included a Ton of Pantera parts (take-offs and lots of new parts)so now it's time to reassemble.

Earlier I posted a message about needing a wiring harness but while going thru the parts I found the original harness.

Upon inspection the harness looks to be in good shape and I've read several posts indicating the stock harness is OK to use but should be improved for better functionality and reliability.

I plan to go thru the entire harness, clean connections, repair/replace worn/damaged items and upgrade components as needed.

Does someone have a list of the suggested harness improvements?
Some upgrades owners mentioned in previous posts:
$78 ignition bypass
$305 fuse box
$225 headlight motor controller
$260 radiator controller
$257 console switch controller
Changing wire gauge on a particular circuit to handle the load better

I'm concerned about the harness upgrade cost. One reason I wanted to go with the stock harness was to save money but some owners think it's less expensive overall to go with a new Painless harness.

My head is swimming and I'm getting dizzy thinking about 'what should I do' ...

Your comments/suggestions will allow me to create a harness refurbish/upgrade/install plan.

Thanks for your comments guys and it's Great to finally be a Pantera Owner and not just lurking on this Forum dreaming about 'what if'' …
Bill

All of the Pantera-Electronics items are great additions but the fact of the matter is that you do not need to do anything to the original car.

Changing to the P-E fuse panel is a convenience thing. It makes it easier to deal with blown fuses, original bullet fuses falling out and on the floor, and modernizing the type of fuses to use.

The same with all of Jon Haas's Pantera products.

There is one of them that I can think of though that anyone should really consider mandatory. That is the ignition switch controller. It takes the enormous electrical load off of the switch.

Your switch will last longer and it reduces the possibility of an electrical short.


I have all of the P-E "controllers" in the car and they really "fix" a lot of the issues.

As far as exactly what he means about "fixing mistakes" in the harness, I personally don't know. While the harness is out of the car, you might consider asking him about that?

That is the time to do any kind of a mistake correction to the harness. Working on it in the car to me would not be the desired course of action.


Another item that I would predict a very high percentage of owners would agree with is put a solid state distributor in the car. One that has proven to be VERY reliable is the Ford Motorcraft unit.


A ticking time bomb in the car is the ORIGINAL ammeter gauge because of the way it is wired into the car.

Just about everything else is a matter of taste.


The original car is not a disaster area as some, including journalists would suggest. Many have driven these cars with original equipment quite a few happy miles with really "normal" production car failure rates on components.

I think that some components have actually done BETTER then Ford itself thought it would do. I'm thinking of the ZF itself.

Ford apparently was convinced something like 1 in 3 would need to be replaced for one reason or another under warranty and stocked replacement units to be prepared.

They re-engineered the gear ratios from the -1 to reduce torque loading, i.e., first gear "burn-outs" by reducing the first gear ratio from 2.41 to 2.20 in the -2.
To my knowledge, the ZF's never failed as expected.

In fact the ZF's have proven strong enough to hold much larger displacement engines without failure. Those engines are making significantly more torque then the often quoted 550 ft-lbs limit.

A good size acorn maybe could crack the windshield if it catches it right, but for sure it doesn't mean the sky is falling at all.

Great comments Doug,
I'm trying to not get caught up in all of the upgrades/improvements you could possibly do as you reassemble the car but instead, capture these in a long list, prioritize the list and only do the minimal/important upgrades so you can get the car assembled quicker and use the vehicle while you decide on which upgrade is next.

If you were in my shoes and, given the guideline above, what would your short list look like?
Again, Thanks for your assistance

quote:

Originally posted by BillT:
Great comments Doug,
I'm trying to not get caught up in all of the upgrades/improvements you could possibly do as you reassemble the car but instead, capture these in a long list, prioritize the list and only do the minimal/important upgrades so you can get the car assembled quicker and use the vehicle while you decide on which upgrade is next.

If you were in my shoes and, given the guideline above, what would your short list look like?
Again, Thanks for your assistance

My list is really limited by the budget. I have my car since 1985. The only thing that I am sorry for is 1) cutting the front hood to put the "Hitbachi grills" in and cutting the rear deck for the Webers.

Neither was necessary. I kept the cut outs but only the rear could be put back in.

EVERYTHING else has been worthwhile.

I would add, stay away from the MSD ignition. You will be sorry for that if you do it.

The P-E ignition so far as I know is the ONLY ignition that will actually fire a fouled plug and CLEAN it up.


I suppose the old "racer's adage" of how fast you want to go is only limited by how much money you have to spend or maybe, how high is up are applicable in this instance?

You can run the risk of just living to work on the car and never get to drive it too?

I would get the Infinitybox wiring system since the car is basically gutted. Throw away the dated fuse panel and go completely digital more reliable and certainly will bring your pantera up to modern standards and beyond.
The complete system is about $1500.00, check out their website
My .02

Thanks for the comments WPL.
I'll check out the Infinitybox system.

Not exactly a wiring mod, but I would spend some time in calibrating the console gauges. As you get to driving your machine, you will probably find that -A- the water temp gauge lies, and -B- the oil pressure gauge lies. Both reduce your potential enjoyment of the car by making you worry. But if the gauges are calibrated, you'll KNOW they are lying. In the water temp gauge feed line, Ford engineering added one of three different resistors to bring the gauge temp down for 'owner peace of mind'. If it's there, it will simply be twisted into the single wire near the sender, then covered with electrical tape.

Bosswrench,
Is it only the water and oil gauges that need calibrating? and do you know of a post that discusses the steps to calibrate these gauges?
Sorry for all the questions

as for "calibrating" the gauges, you really need to be vary familar with Kirchoff!

http://www.panteraplace.com/page205.htm

Thanks JFB,
That takes me back to electronics classes I had many moons ago ...

A three pack of these for OIL/TEMP/GAS
http://www.technoversions.com/MeterMatchHome.html

Bill, the oil pressure gauge was Italian made (Veglia) while the sender was a Mustang part made in the U.S, so its no wonder there was a mismatch affecting accuracy. The simplest 'fix' for this one is to install a Tee fitting in the rear of the block where the electric gauge sender is. Add a cheap mechanical oil pressure gauge in one leg of the tee and the electric sender in the other. Start your engine and note the difference in readings: it will be from 10-30 psi. In a few minutes of running, you can 'calibrate' the gauge yourself. It's safe to leave the mechanical gauge in place indefinitely- mine has been there for over 20 years. I use 'real' readings while tuning.

The water temp had either a 0-220F (1971-1973) or a 0-260F (1973-up) face with two quite different mechanisms inside. I changed gauges and found that the 0-260 gauge read quite close to true, once the 'factory' resistor was removed. Substituting a small value variable resistor allows one to easily 'calibrate' either gauge. Note that with the earlier 0-220 gauge, the normal operating temp of a totally stock Pantera will be 190-210 so this gauge is less valuable- it will run 'pegged' a lot of the time. And of course if the engine or cooling system has been modified, it could read almost anything.

The fuel gauge reads correctly. The ammeter may or may not, depending.... as mentioned, there are English Lucas, Italian Fiamm and German Bosch components in the wiring and most Panteras have been modified here. But the ammeter is arguably the least important- all you really want to know is whether the alternator is charging or not; the exact value is not very important. Finally, the Pantera is VERY sensitive to good grounds of all its electrical components. If something doesn't work or works funky, first, check the ground. This practice will save you much time & money.

Great tips guys...