Is somebody pulling my leg or can this be done?
An acquaintance claims that he syncronized his webbers by floating the balls above the stacks. It sounds plausible but what do I know.
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could you give a little more discription to how it is done;
Wouldn’t they be sucked in?
There HAS to be a significant inflow of air, much more than the “reversion”
There HAS to be a significant inflow of air, much more than the “reversion”
Synchronization or balancing the airflow thru eight IRS throttles is usually done by using some sort of air-flow tool for repeatability. Mine is from the '60s and still works. But there's a LOT more to getting the things to work right than just getting the throttles all synchronized. For instance, there are five jets and three air bleeds for each barrel and they are all replaceable. Most guys running Webers have a boxful of old jets etc and the cheapest one is (or was) $5 each. They all affect each other, too so really easy to get lost in there... Typically, Webers initially either make lots of power and 10 mpg, or good mileage and no power. Somewhere in the middle is where all the work occurs.
the person that gave me this ping pong ball story did not elaborate on detail but indicated that the balls would float above the stacks when the engine is running. I did not ask about RPM. If indeed this works then I assume that they float at different heights depending on the speed screw setting of each carb. Just guessing and the story might have been bull. I was hoping one of you had heard of it.
1st question: Does This Acquaintance Have Webbers Or Can It Be Confirmed That He Ever Has?
i had a co-worker that would confabulate personal auto-lore history, there were serious problems with his stories. one quick example he didn't know and defiantly insisted that a positive displacement supercharger moves air through the center where the lobes are meshed together rather than around the sides of the case, yet he had extensive hands on experience with a blower.
not just auto related, 1/2 baked stories extended into all reaches of his life. turns out the medication he was on is very well known for causing users to tell big fibbers. i thought he had 'not safe to be out in public' issues until i later learned of the RX side-effects, sadly he'd be non-functional and crippled in pain w/o the medication. just being on that medication can be life threatening, again sad situation.
i call BS on floating ping pong balls over Webber stacks
i had a co-worker that would confabulate personal auto-lore history, there were serious problems with his stories. one quick example he didn't know and defiantly insisted that a positive displacement supercharger moves air through the center where the lobes are meshed together rather than around the sides of the case, yet he had extensive hands on experience with a blower.
not just auto related, 1/2 baked stories extended into all reaches of his life. turns out the medication he was on is very well known for causing users to tell big fibbers. i thought he had 'not safe to be out in public' issues until i later learned of the RX side-effects, sadly he'd be non-functional and crippled in pain w/o the medication. just being on that medication can be life threatening, again sad situation.
i call BS on floating ping pong balls over Webber stacks
If you look at a Uni Sync tool, it is essentially a micro ping pong ball in a glass cylinder.
The ball goes up and down though and doesn't float at a steady spot.
If I were you, I'd get the Uni Sync and stop playing with balls.
The ball goes up and down though and doesn't float at a steady spot.
If I were you, I'd get the Uni Sync and stop playing with balls.
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the reversion pulse puffs the ball up
assume the ball does NOT fall back in the stack
assume the idle is 1000 rpms
the duration between reversion pulses would be 0.12 seconds
in 0.12 seconds the ball falls back 2.8 inches
so the reversion needs to float the ball at least 3" above the stack
NOW, if the above works and the carbs synched to pulse the balls up the same 3", the throttle is actually setting the amount of reversion pulse backwards trough the carb, NOT synchronizing the amount of air drawing in
assume the ball does NOT fall back in the stack
assume the idle is 1000 rpms
the duration between reversion pulses would be 0.12 seconds
in 0.12 seconds the ball falls back 2.8 inches
so the reversion needs to float the ball at least 3" above the stack
NOW, if the above works and the carbs synched to pulse the balls up the same 3", the throttle is actually setting the amount of reversion pulse backwards trough the carb, NOT synchronizing the amount of air drawing in
You don't/can't sync the reversion only balancing the air flow by controlling throttle openings.
What happens though is that you can only sync 4 of the throats. One from each carb.
You use the higher of the two of each carb so essentially you are getting the engine to idle on 4 throats.
What happens though is that you can only sync 4 of the throats. One from each carb.
You use the higher of the two of each carb so essentially you are getting the engine to idle on 4 throats.
I've heard ping pong ball tuning is popular in China.
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I have two different airflow meters including the Uni sync and they works fine for me. The individual that claims to have used ping pong balls owned Ferraris in the past but may be spinning a tale. I don't know Ferrari motors well and cant remember if I've ever seen one with downdraft carbs. Maybe there are, and maybe this is bull.
quote:Originally posted by George P:
1976 Ferrari Boxer (512 BB) production car, flat 12 powered
You definitely can suck in a lot of balls with a Ferrari. They don't use big balls. Just a lot of little ones.
I like the way that they take those flexible kitchen stove gas lines and put them on the car for fuel lines. Mama Celeste must be pissed?
quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
You don't/can't sync the reversion only balancing the air flow by controlling throttle openings.
What happens though is that you can only sync 4 of the throats. One from each carb.
You use the higher of the two of each carb so essentially you are getting the engine to idle on 4 throats.
I do not understand why, the carburettors have a screw to balance the depression between the two throats.
Anyway I doubt a lot that reversion to idling, so with closed throtle, is sufficient to maintain a ping pong ball in the air.
48 IDA's do not have the ability to balance the two throats on the same carb.
They were never intended as street carbs. They were intended for racing.
I don't think that they have the accuracy in machining to put the throttle positions in exactly the same position.
The throttle shafts themselves are also made out of soft brass, so they are very easy to twist. You can do that by attempting to adjust the throttle on both ends at the same time.
Bad linkage will also twist them.
All you are going to do is twist the throttle shafts.
Weber linkage has to be light enough to blow away in the wind. You can't use all the extra throttle return springs on them like Holley set ups use.
Additional throttle return springs (as required by racing sanctioning bodies) can not go to the carbs. They have to go on the linkages.
48ida's are not for everyone. They require delicacy and patience.
Someone who is an "expert" with a Holley is just a bull in a china shop with a 48ida.
Generally speaking, you don't see IDA's on street Ferrari's.
MOST if not all people are much better off with an EFI throttle body. Those are much easier to understand.
There are little, subtle things on ida's. You won't even know that until you wreck a few sets first.
They were never intended as street carbs. They were intended for racing.
I don't think that they have the accuracy in machining to put the throttle positions in exactly the same position.
The throttle shafts themselves are also made out of soft brass, so they are very easy to twist. You can do that by attempting to adjust the throttle on both ends at the same time.
Bad linkage will also twist them.
All you are going to do is twist the throttle shafts.
Weber linkage has to be light enough to blow away in the wind. You can't use all the extra throttle return springs on them like Holley set ups use.
Additional throttle return springs (as required by racing sanctioning bodies) can not go to the carbs. They have to go on the linkages.
48ida's are not for everyone. They require delicacy and patience.
Someone who is an "expert" with a Holley is just a bull in a china shop with a 48ida.
Generally speaking, you don't see IDA's on street Ferrari's.
MOST if not all people are much better off with an EFI throttle body. Those are much easier to understand.
There are little, subtle things on ida's. You won't even know that until you wreck a few sets first.
Sorry, I thought it was like DCNF I had a long time ago on one of my cars.
The opposite is true too, someone who knows a little Weber does not understand anything about Holley. I'll have to learn with my Pantera.
The opposite is true too, someone who knows a little Weber does not understand anything about Holley. I'll have to learn with my Pantera.
Well if nothing else productive came out of this ping pong synchronizing quest, those were great photos of Ferrari motors. I guess I don't travel in the right circuits. Hey, so might be gullible.
I won't be happy till someone makes an youtube of "webers juggling"
looks great with and without air filters, and no large plastic covers with graphics to hide the engine. Whats up with that? Thanks for the Ferrari education.