Tapping sound at bottom of oil pan

I have a Kevko 8 QT oil pan that required some surgery to clear the internal baffles from the rotating system.

Bite the bullet and pull the motor and trans, and fix this right. Once you do it a time or two, it can be done in 5 hours.

But what is it that's making the noise? Oil pan is stock.

Nope. That cross-member has to come out to pull the pan. As you stated you can drop it down some, maybe enough to see what's going on.

There could be debris/foreign matter, in the oil pump itself or it could have a broken drive gear.

Personally I would have issue with a custom oil pan constructor that builds a pan that needs internal work to fit.

I suppose that you get what you pay for in the end result?

Somethings I've read it can be:
Connecting rods, timing chain, flywheel, Fuel pump, I have a hard time believing any of that.

Since I could distinctly feel the tapping at the bottom of the pan, and the pickup screen is even closer than normal I think it's an oil pump problem or resonance. Now, who's changed their oil pump with the motor in the car? I can readily access four bolts, don't know if that will get it off, but they're coming off, then will go from there.

Okay, that didn't yield much, the drive shaft dropped out and went to the bottom of the pan, I have to assume it's in one piece. The filter screen is clean. No way to remove the entire pump. I have good oil pressure, so curiosity satisfied.

How does an oil pump work anyway, does it pulse like the timing of the motor? The pickup filter is on a threaded pipe, and I can swivel it, but can't remove. It rest's inside that large upper floor hole. If it was resting on the side of the hole, might it make a tapping sound?

if the threaded pick-up tube is not TIGHT & SEALED it will suck air & you'll have an oil pressure problem

you removed the bottom plate of the oil pump?

there are 2 bolts that hold the pump body to the block, remove them and the pump will drop into the pan

Yes, removed the bottom plate. Okay I will check on those two bolts.

Hi Ray,

You said you are getting a tapping noise that changes rate with the RPM change... Something in the reciprocating assembly is hitting the pan or windage tray.

You need to drop the pan completely to do a thorough inspection. Bite the bullet and cut the crossmember out, cut the ebrake bracket out, and drop the pan.

Reassembly is easy with a bolt on ebrack bracket and a bolt on cross member. I have both items if you need them.

Take care, Scott

Well, I took the oil pump completely off and out. It is brand new dammit! was hoping...

I just don't see anything reciprocating that could come close to striking the pan, that's why I'm having a hard time with that.

What kind of winding tray does it have? One bolted to special cap bolts or one built into the pan? OR none at all?

Not sure what you mean by winding tray, but it has a partition covering the full length of the pan about 2-3" above the bottom. Spot welded in there.

Do you have a picture? Windage trays are either bolted to the cap bolts or are built into the pan. Some built into the pan are removable and some are spot welded in like yours. I have had poorly made pans, that had the windage tray hit the connecting rods at the edge of the tray. I also had a modified pan hit the connecting rods where the pan was cut to deepen it. It is more of a problem with motors that have had their stroke increased...

My car is bone stock, so was the engine re-build, not one single modification just so I don't have to worry about things like this, or what somebody else did, but it's biting me anyway.

Sorry to say... the pan must come off for a good inspection...

Scott is correct- the pan must drop about 8" for the oil pump pickup to clear the internal baffle (your 'shelf'), then it moves 2-3" forward to clear other things. The crossmember and e-brake brackets MUST be cut- no way around it. They can then have flanges welded on so removal is simple NEXT time. This was a factory update a couple of years after your Pantera was built.
The position of the oil pump pickup is normally 3/8" above the inside-bottom of the pan. If as you say- the pan bottom is bent upward maybe from someone trying to jack the engine up at that point, the pickup is likely now touching the pan bottom. Noise will result. If so, oil flow to the crank and rods will also be restricted at rpms much above idle, starving the bearings.
The pump driveshaft has a star-washer on it that is supposed to ride about 1/8" below a cast block boss above the pump, to keep it from falling into the pan when the distributor is pulled. If the driveshaft is installed upside-down, it will do exactly what happened- fall into the pan. This poor engine really needs some internal attention by someone who knows 351-Cleveland engines!
I also think I see a twist along the pump diveshaft's length in one photo. This happens when even minor debris goes thru the gearotor oil pump that Fords use, and overloads the strength of the stock mild steel driveshaft. REALLY good, cheap insurance is a Ford Motorsports/Moroso/many others 4130-steel pump driveshaft- for less than $15. Good luck on what you find further inside....

Thanks. That is allot of very useful info. I did notice that push lock nut on the shaft, and wondered if it went up or down, I did decide it went up, but don't remember if it was that way originally. The shaft is not twisted.

Next, I am going to try something very unconventional. With the pan supported underneath, I am going to attempt to hammer the bottom of the pan back out by placing a steel pipe in selected locations. I am convinced I don't have the clearance you speak of. If successful, I am going to re-assemble and re-start. If that doesn't work, I'll cut the braces.

No way to pound out the dent, so off come the brackets. I have an air grinder I can put a 4" cut off wheel on, or what is the best tool to cut them off?

quote:

an air grinder I can put a 4" cut off wheel

I heard a Sawz-All with a ~6" Blade will work.

Good luck

Prior to final assembly, you should clay the distance from the oil pump pickup to the pan. It should really be 0.314 inches.

The problem sounds very similar to what happen the first time my trans was removed. The stock oil pan has a built in windage tray welded on. I dented the back of the oil pan jacking it up trying to tilt it to remove the trans. After reinstalling the trans and starting the car up, I started getting that noise. One of the rod bolts caught a lip on the windage tray and pulled it up. The solution was to remove the stock pan and take a hammer to it to straight out.

We were able to bend the stock parking brake bracket down and pull the pan. Putting the car on a lift was a big plus. Bending the bracket will definitely weaken the weld. If it's just bent back after reinstalling the pan, the weld will eventually break and you parking brake cable and bracket will be dragging on the ground. You must reinforce the welds. I ended up replacing mine with a removable parking brake bracket.

I was able to get the pan off by just cutting off the e-brake bracket, did not have to cut off the cross brace, sounds like you didn't either, so that's one thing believed by many turned into a myth. As you noted, I pounded the bottom of the pan flat, the back of the pan has a slit in the windage tray, one side a little higher than the other, so I guess I'll flatten that some too.

The slit on the back of the pan was where the windage tray lifted up and caused that noise on my pan. I hope you had access to a lift as the last time I had to pull my pan, I had to do it laying on my back. That was a pain even with a removable bracket and a removable crossmember installed.

You bet. I would never try this without a lift!