The Cost of wheels?

They are pretty rare and don't come up for sale much. I would think closer to $1,500 dollars here in the US. A full set just sold here not too long ago in that range.

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...0045562/m/9861024056

The bigger problem might be finding a 15 inch tire that would make use of the 10 inch wheel AND have a ZR rating.

quote:

Originally posted by Quickitty:
They are pretty rare and don't come up for sale much. I would think closer to $1,500 dollars here in the US. A full set just sold here not too long ago in that range.

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...0045562/m/9861024056

The bigger problem might be finding a 15 inch tire that would make use of the 10 inch wheel AND have a ZR rating.

To be honest I'm not going to need a Z rated tyre, so its not a problem for me. but I shall keep my eyes open.

There are forged aluminum reproductions in that size available from a seller on eBay by the name of MisterFiat. Currently priced at $1405 USD each.

DeTomaso Pantera 10 x 15 wheel

The forged aluminum reproductions come from roin technology in verona / italy. they are also doing other interesting de tomaso wheels.

pls see:
http://www.rointechnology.com/...i.php&marca=detomaso

prices over here are roughly the same as mister fiat´s...

wolfgang

Peter,

I am in the process of reconditioning a set of original 10" Campagnolo rear wheels for the Pantera and a pair of 8" Campagnolo's for the front. I can't say quite when I will have them done (hopefully within 30 days or so). I will put them on Ebay with a starting bid of $9.99 and no reserve.

Hi, was wondering how soon do you expect your set to be available.
I would be really interested in 8/10 set, too bad I missed the one sold by Wing72

I find this an interesting subject and seem to recall it being discussed here before.
Hall no longer lists the 10"x 15" Campi that I see.
As I recall, they were being sold at $1,250 each, if memory serves?

There are two kinds. I would think most don't care about the type 1, or what I would call the original has the ALL the fins, gussets or rim reinforcements (whatever you choose to call them) extending to the edge of the inner rim. Those are the Campagnolo "Detomaso Pantera" versions.

There is another version where every other fin goes to the edge of the rim. Those are a type II or a reproduction or a continuation, depending on the term you choose to use.

Now when I first got my car in 1986, I wanted a pair of the 10's in the worst way. Hall was the only one at the time who had them.

Hall wanted $2,500 for the pair. In discussing this with Gary Hall, I said I won't be able to buy a set at that rate for a while. Can you sell me a set of used ones.

He said "sure, those are $3,500 for a pair".

I was shocked and sickened at the same time. I asked him why, and he said, "that's because there is only one type of original 10" and they are very rare. The $2,500 set are reproductions".

So I would say considering the price you are now discussing and this dicussion with Hall, the prices are consistant.

Now really there are a couple of factors that would tend to keep the price of any used set of 10's down now.

One is that you can get a set of four billet 17" wheels for $2500 and run z or w tires on the car and two, there are very few high speed rated 15" tires available now.

All of these details are factors in the price but personally if you can get a pair of any of the 10 x 15's for under $2500 and they aren't bent, pitted or otherwise damaged, GRAB THEM AND COVET THEM FOREVER! There will never be any more of them made.

There is no argument that the new billet wheels are absolutely gorgeous but there is one mitigating fact THEY ARE AFTERMARKET WHEELS.

The Mickey Thompson 26 x 12.00-15LT (light truck) tire fits the 10 inch Campi well and fills the rear fender nicely. It is only S rated though.

Really aggressive looking tire.

I have these on my car. They fill the wheel arch well and look pretty cool in my opinion.
I don't drive my car over 110 mph very often. When I do it is only briefly. Feels smooth and
stable at speed.

295-50 15's toyo proxies
if you can get them , they are an suv tyre also but look good n till rear wheel arches nicely, have done a few laps on the track and they sit fine, though the origin breaks go a little soft a tad quick.

Doug, can the difference you mention between original Detom and the next gen wheels you mention be seen visually?
cheers cj

The Toyos in the US are as good as gone. IF a set is found you need to check the dates. They could be unused but already four or five years old.

Yes Chris, you can see the difference on the outside. Here are two pictures that clearly show the difference.

These are the orignals. Look at the cast in gussets (fins). Compare them to the next picture. You will see the difference.

These aslo have Capagnolo Detomaso 10x15 cast into them. I'm not sure if any of the continuation wheels do or not.

I would say most people don't care about the difference though.

It's kind of like the Weber intake manifold. The original says Detomaso on it. Halls says, Hall Pantera.

Halls is actually a better manifold. The original tends to be thin and fragile. Halls was beefed up BUT which would you RATHER have?

These are the "continuation" 10's. The gussets on these have a long, short pattern. They are much more common.

I'm not sure if all of them say Campagnolo Detomaso 10x15, but the originals do. Right on the face of the wheel.

These are not the original DT wheel.

quote:

Originally posted by 71HI:
Hi, was wondering how soon do you expect your set to be available.
I would be really interested in 8/10 set, too bad I missed the one sold by Wing72

I can't tell you exactly when I will have the wheels finished but I have started a photo file that I have uploaded which shows the (slow) progress. I add new photos when progress moves along enough.

By the way, the front 8" wheels are date stamped 1972 and the rear 10" are date stamped 1978. All of the wheels are originals and stamped "Detomaso" and "Campagnolo".

Campagnolo Wheels Photo File

This is a shot of mine. This is an "original" or maybe a better term is type I.

F.A.S.T. Yours are the type II with the alternating long short gussets.

There in fact may be later types as well that are all Campagnolos?

No one seems to know for sure.

Hall claimed that they were different because the original mold broke and was repaired and altered to the long/short as a result?

He also claimed to have purchased the original molds from Detomaso, not Campagnolo. Wilkinson laughed at that.

Who knows for sure and certainly some one could probably do an extensive article about these 10" wheels just by themselves?

Beats me? Like I said, I find this an interesting subject and I hope you guys do too?

closeup of mine. You can clearly see the Campagnolo, Detomaso, 10x15 cast into the wheel.

FAST. Why do you need to restore them? They look fine. Just sand them down and paint them silver.

These wheels have a powdercoat on them to protect the magnesium from oxidation and positively seal out any possible porosity that magnesium is known for.

If you strip that off, you are opening a can of worms?

When I first got them, the fronts were silver grey and the backs were a titanium color. Since I could never find anyone else with a set I couldn't compare them to even get an inclination that was an original color but I tend to think that it was?

Doug,

The wheels have three layers of paint on them The original argent with red on top of that and then gold on top of the red. That's why I am stripping them to make them the best they can be.

As I am sure you are aware, Campagnolo had sutble "running changes" in the design of their Pantera wheels. Nothing real major but changes nonetheless.

If you look at the back of your wheels they all have a date stamp. Your wheels may be earlier? It would be interesting to know what date your wheels are.

Here are some photos of my 10" wheels showing the details. As I stated earlier, these are date stamped 1978.

Here's another Pantera (was Jeff Burgy's) with type 1 10inch campis. Those also are the Mind Train louvres.

Now you have me curious also? As I said, there may be more than just the two types, and probably are?

wifey is on my case to put up the Xmas lights. If I have any patience left later I'll pull off the wheel and look for the date.

Ladies and Gentlemen, place all bets...BUT I wouldn't even bet a nickle that mine are earlier at all.

Inquiring minds need to know...ah screw the lights, there will another Christmas next year right?

These look a little different - primarily due to the markings on the front (10"K x 15" CH), but must be the "continuation" wheels due to the '89 date code.

I know they were not stock, my PO got them later in the car's career....

Inside View of Casting Info...

Mine are different than both of yours. You can clearly see I have no casting date indicated.

You can see MADE IN ITALY on a cast in tag.

close up of hub. no date code

Made in Italy tag. So it appears that it was made after Italy became a country but before there was any sort of calender? Is that before or after the Romans?

Speaking of Romans? I didn't put up the lights yet. I hope the lions aren't hungry tonight?

Plus your "Made in Italy" tag is cast in upside down.

I would guess that what you have are the 10" wheels from Romulus or Remus' chariot.

quote:

Originally posted by Rocky:
Plus your "Made in Italy" tag is cast in upside down.

I would guess that what you have are the 10" wheels from Romulus or Remus' chariot.

Maybe the 10 x 15 on mine means 10 cubits by 15 cubits?

I can see that there is quite a difference in the casting on the backs. Rocky. If you could post a full picture of the back of your wheel that would help show the differences better.

I've got no complaints. I got mine from a Porsche dealer in Austin Texas that was going to put them on his Lamborghini but it needed adapters to do it. He had no use for them then, so I got...a deal on them AND he threw in a pair of 8"s.

So why is a Porsche dealer driving a Lambo? Great question. Maybe the Porches crash, catch fire and kill you?

You should'a heard the accent on this guy? Said he couldn't understand a word that I SAID! Geesh!

My Dad was Regular Army, 1st Cav, Headquarters Troop, El Paso, Texas. I could understand him?

As Chief Inspector Clouseau would say, "strange...very strange!"

Two more thoughts: first, Campagnolo (the automotive part) went out of business twice, and was bought once by Cromadora(?)-their main competition in Italy who kept the Campy name. Campagnolo bicycle parts was then a separate (and successful) stand-alone business.
Next, Campys were made old-school: the 'molds' were of mahogany wood so each mold only yielded a limited number of castings- all progressively rougher and with more rounded edges on the details. Until finally, they had to use new molds- which were all hand made. So its not too surprising to find minor detail differences in the cast wheels. Given the very limited number of 10" wheels made relative to the 7" & 8" variety and the wheel-business upsets, I'd guess there's maybe five different 10" variants. Maybe more but no one really knows.

Finally, I just got a for-sale ad for TWO pairs of the rare 10" x 15" Campys from Larry Stock at Pantera Parts Connection in Carson City NV www.panteraparts.com. This ad is going into the Jan POCA Newsletter.... NOT cheap! Haven't seen the condition but I'll take a look at them Monday. They do not come up for sale very often, at any price. I waited for mine for 20 years!

@BW
It wouldn't be out of line to mention here what Larry is asking for them?

Between you me and the lamp post, I had a guy in Europe offer me $4,000 for mine. That's kind of hard to turn down but look at it this way, how much would it cost me to get them back?

not sure the 10 campy's aren't appreciating faster than the car, that and the zf transaxle lol.think i lucked out a few years back and got a set of 10 and 8" for less than 1500

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Wilson:
not sure the 10 campy's aren't appreciating faster than the car, that and the zf transaxle lol.think i lucked out a few years back and got a set of 10 and 8" for less than 1500

You don't want to know what I got mine for.

Got a set for free yesterday
Came with the car I picked up
then again, will go with the car when it sells

Now there's a solution?

I know someone that saw a set of stamped steel valve covers on a Boss 302 race car that had no openings in them for pvc valves etc and were stamped Ford.

He had to have them so bad that the only way to get them was to buy the entire car. So he did.

my 10X15 rims look like Rocky's. Are these stock? I have the same BFG's too.

The 10's were never stock on US cars. They were only stock on the Euro GTS. Even the US GTS came with 7&8's.

In fact, I tried to get a pair through a US Lincoln/Mercury dealer who was a US Pantera dealer and had the parts book.

The 10" didn't even show in the book.

I know that after the the '74 model year, you could order parts directly from Detomaso in Italy.

I presume that is where they came from.

In 75 & 76 I was autocrossing across the river from me (Hudson River) in Rockland County.

I used to see what I thought were new US GTS being driven on the street WITH 10" wheels on them.

Cars of the World, in New City? Was Bob Grossman. He raced Cobras (wrecked a few) and was the guy you went to buy a Ferrari from.

Those were PROBABLY his cars?

If you are asking about mine, as I posted, Hall said mine "were originals", and the others were what he phrased, "reproductions".

I'm not claiming anything, but you clearly can see the differences in the wheels.

Who know's how many were made in each run of wheels? Considering how many cars Detomaso was selling outside of the US market how many do you think he would order at one time without Ford paying the bill? 50? 100? Who knows for sure?

Maybe the factory can chime in on this? Willis, do you know?

One of my employees got bored and polished my wheels. They turned out okay. Still thinking of painting them.

To me the major attraction to the billet 17" Campi replicas is that they have a nice polished finish to them.

IF magnesium wasn't such a PITA to maintain polished I think I could go that way.

I have seen real Campis COMPLETELY polished before and they are nothing short of breathtaking. Polished magnesium the quality level used by Campagnolo is a step above polished aluminum and not cheap looking like chrome.

I have only seen ONE set of the billet aluminum wheels in person and although they are gorgeous as a single entity on display off the car naked, on the black car I saw them on, after 30 seconds , they were kinda ho-hum...boring.

Given the choice between polished and painted, I'll have to stay with my 8/10 painted Campis. We all have to sacrifice for practicality somewhere and have some sort of a cross to bear?

quote:

One of my employees got bored and polished my wheels. They turned out okay. Still thinking of painting them

Ricky's gonna be mad!


Chuck

They do take a lot of elbow grease to keep shiny.....and water is their worst enemy.

Hi, I had some very bad experience refinishing Campagnolo magnesium wheels. When restoring my 1973 Alfa GTV I decided to sandblast and clear coat the wheels. At first they looked perfect, then, after a week there was some sort of magnesium reaction that started going on; like dark "marble" stains coming out; few months down the road they got really ugly, basically destroyed...
This is just based on my experience, but I would stay away from stripping off all the paint; rather just send the old paint to good, smooth finish and then repaint over...maybe not as perfect but way safer.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick P.:
They do take a lot of elbow grease to keep shiny.....and water is their worst enemy.

Not JUST water but air too. Magnesium does not like oxygen. Probably other gases in the atmosphere as well.

If you don't seal it out completely, you will also start to see stress cracks in it at some point.

I know that the original Halibrands used on the race Cobras at low temperatures will actually become porous and won't hold air. They have to be heated to close the porosity. This I am told is due to the molecular structure of magnesium.

Magnesium will also burn if ignited with a good spark and some racing rules prohibit their use.

Lots of reasons to keep them completely sealed. It just wasn't happenstance that Campagnolo "coated" theirs.

Those offerings by Mr.Fiat are aluminum. Wonder how many, if any, he has sold at $1,500 each?

Looks like I have another project this winter. Thanks for the input. I an now thinking all black our a dark gray....clear coated.
Sure wish I could find a set of front seventeen inch Kinesis wheels to match my back wheels.