Ultra rare Pantera Gr.3 Prototype for sale now on ebay

I notice the car does not have the original, early 10" rear wheels.

I saw that too. These are the Hall repros.

Doug, they weren't really repros, they're just a later version of the 10" Campy. As I understand it, Hall wanted to buy some 10" wheels but none were available and the tooling was worn out, so no more could be cast. Campagnolo was unwilling to invest in reconditioning the tooling, so Hall stepped-up and paid to have the tooling fixed. In return, they gave Hall some type of special deal on the wheels. Campagnolo altered the tooling slightly, so the newer 10" wheels looked slightly different than the older ones.

Well one thing Gary was good at was telling a story that created some controversy. There are a number of them that he was the source of and when I repeated them people would just shake their heads at me and look away.

The 10" Campi story is no exception.

I got my car in '85. I immediately started gathering the "update" parts for it.

Hall had the 10" listed for $1500 a pair new. That wasn't cheap. I called and knowing that he was a squirrel that stored certain items away, thought I might be able to save a few acorns by buying a used pair?

His response was sure I have those but they are $3000 a pair? So I asked why. His answer was that the "originals", as he called them, only had come on new Euro GTS cars.

The difference between the new version and the original he said was to many an insignificant detail.

It was that the gussets, the little triangles on the inner rims, on the originals, all were full and extended to the outer rim.

The new version, only every other gusset did.

This started into the, "I own the molds, I bought them from Detomaso" discussion.

That being, that Campagnolo owned the molds and they weren't really interested in making car wheels any more, a couple at a time.

They are bicycle wheel manufacturers. He said the molds were offered to him for sale as a result and he bought them.

At the time, Carol Shelby had re instituted the Shelby Wheel Company and his son Pat was running it.

Gary said the molds were there and Shelby was making the new ones for him.

Now this is a good example of how there was never a simple answer from Hall. There was always a degree of truth from what he said but it was for you to determine that.

Oh. I think the story was told to me because he was out of stock on new 10 inch and was waiting for more? No matter. He like a major league pitcher rarely threw a pitch straight down the middle of the plate? It always wiggled or broke in a direction one didn't expect.

My turn on this is simple. I said ba-humbug to the entire thing and placed a wanted ad in Autoweek.

I got a call from a Porsche dealer in Austin. He had a pair he had bought in Europe he was going to put on something else he owned (a Lambo or something) and found out it would need addaptors to fit, for, now get this, $500, and to sweeten the deal would throw in a pair of 8's?
Not bad huh?

Well those are the wheels that I have on my car now. They have the full gussets and the other observation is that they obviously look sand cast because the centers are not smooth like the "current continuation" wheels are.

But to me, if this is all true, even though the current wheel say Campagnolo Detomaso on them, they aren't. So I use the term, reproduction to differentiate between the "original" and the "current".

This group 3 "prototype" has got the staggered, large/small gussets on those wheels.

I can't remember where I read, or who told me, but I was "told" that magnesium wheels are not permitted for racing in the US, they are unsafe? Don't know where that comment came from.

I guess Gary infected me with this inability to say anything simply. Everything needs to have a big long story to it?

I'd thought that version was actually manufactured by Campagnolos successor in the wheel business, the Technomagnesio company(?).

quote:

Originally posted by larryw:
I'd thought that version was actually manufactured by Campagnolos successor in the wheel business, the Technomagnesio company(?).

Beats me. I'm just relaying the "story" that was told to me.
This is like the "poem" that is read at the end of the Moody Blues, "Nights in White Satin", "Cold hearted orb which rules the night...and which is a reality?"

Beats me?

If you look at the pictures in the Ebay add, the car has the correct,original wheels in the old photos.Maybe they were replaced when the car was restored? I also like the rear brake cooling hoses!

Cool car!


Ron

quote:

Originally posted by r mccall:
If you look at the pictures in the Ebay add, the car has the correct,original wheels in the old photos.Maybe they were replaced when the car was restored? I also like the rear brake cooling hoses!

Cool car!


Ron

I'd have to assume the originals could have been pretty beat up?

I noticed those hoses too. Wonder what the scoop looks like?
The Cobra comp cars had a similar set up with scoops under the car.

It is a neat car. Has nice performance on the track on the straits. Handles well in the turns.

Lots of passing there on the slower cars.

Very nice handling for a small fender car. Makes me question the rational in the wide bodies performance wise?

I noticed how "Well Worn" the gated shifter was....the points almost look sharpened...Also like the reverse lock-out spring loaded plate....Mark

This car was for sale in Belgium only a year ago @ € 125.000,00, that's € 60.000,00 less then wath they want now. Somebody want's to get rich very fast !!!!!!!!!

Hi,
here are a couple of pictures of the scoop and hoses to rear breaks taken at SpaItalia 2011. It was a pretty simple set up with just a square opening on the front side of the scoop, if I remember correctly, and it was just bolted on to end of that bottom corss memeber part.
Cheers, Tim

Here is another photo

Another one...

Now that's a unique set up.

Great picture history. Although comments like this "All electrical functions work perfectly including the pop-up headlight system (one is a bit slower that the other)." make me wonder about the credibility of other remarks.

Hopefully not offending anybody, but to my taste (and thus a personal thing), the car is too far off the original.

I note “The interior is completely original and in perfect shape” but has 90’s (worn (and FIA outdated?)) seats and steering wheel.
I note the brained lines, and fuel cap, the modern mirrors, the missing rear side-markers, and paint job.

Why had the thing side-markers anyway… it is chassis #1070


I much like the non electric windows though!

Kid, correct me If I am wrong, but this car was for sale at the Brussels Retro 4 years ago for 49.000 Euro. It didn't sell.
Why do people think that all of the sudden he is with the high end Pantera's ? Is it just the pictures and vid. We new at that time it was the test car ( proto type grp 3 )

To me it is an interesting car to look at. It isn't something that I would want to own.

It is pretty obvious to me that it is a beat up race car and as such is just an overpriced fantasy the current ownership is having. If it is that valuable and significant then it belongs in a museum.

This is by no means intended by me as an insult. I feel the same way about the Cobras and the GT40s. They are no longer something I would even consider owning.

Always cool to see another pushbutton.

It looks as if its been sold. Any clue who has it now?

It says "Reserve not met" at <$186K. The seller want a lot.

I do have to ask, since I'm new to the forum...it ist appropriate to use the "Panteras for Sale" forum for Ebay discussion. Not trying to be anal, but trying not to get into trouble when I make the same move next time.

Ben

Sorry about the typos...I meant "Is it...?" and ">$186K"

this is a forum for owners of Panteras to list their vehicles for sale & interested parties to ask questions of the owner.

If you see a car on eBay & know its VIN number, you may start a discussion in the specific car forum, if you don't know its VIN start a discussion in the pub.

thanks for inquiring.

-G

Its baaaaack!Detomaso PANTERA Gr.3 Prototype