Anybody got this part, all one piece, no cut out, for my 72?
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Good luck in finding an original. They are rare and often expensive. Seemingly everyone is looking for one.
I tried to make my own and you can if you will accept a mesh that does not match the original size and pattern.
THAT mesh is not normally in the North American supply. You would need to find a "euro steel mesh nerd" to tell you where it came from and if you can still find some in Europe somewhere. I couldn't.
The screen that is in your car is not the one it that left the factory with. I can tell because it is too long and probably came from a 1973 or 1974 Pantera.
The screen in the photo below was too long as well and fit the same way as yours before I shortened it. If you find a good used screen it may or may not fit your car properly and may need to be modified.
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@panteradoug, "euro steel mesh nerd" LOL!!!!!
@steve, that's the fit I'm looking for!
Steve, Brian‘s screen is an all-screen version without the raised air cleaner bubble. That pretty much guarantees it was not from a 1973 or 1974 car
I have two spare center screens and one is markedly longer than the other. Still trying to figure out what the longer version was installed on. The shorter version matches the one on 2511. I am beginning to think the long one was from the very very early cars prior to VIN1285. Mine both attach with sheet metal screws, not the Dzus fasteners used on the lighter cars
before Brian started his thread I was trying to put together a full set of the three covers for a PCNC member lacking all three, as I already had the center and the Rh side cover. I have located a seller with the LH side cover so I think I have managed to find a complete set for that owner.
I have also been in discussions with an owner in Australia who is likewise missing all 3 of his factory screens. His car is prior to VIN 1285, so I am thinking the long screen may actually be correct for his car.
I am still unclear as to why Brian’s screen is not a correct match for his side covers. Either he has the long version of the screen or there is some side-cover fitment issue.
if you study the parts book you will find there are apparently five different versions of the engine cover assembly. But other than part numbers there is nothing physically describing the pieces or how they differ from each other. Note the two very small subsets marked with blue arrows.
I will be making a few vendor phone calls to see if any of them perhaps fully understand the characteristics of the five versions.
Doug‘s suggestion of fabricating a center screen is not that difficult of an endeavor. Some half inch angle stock, screen and a TIG welder, along with some careful bending of the angle stock, doesn’t seem like too difficult a project.
A very quick Google search turned up some likely prospects, but not an OEM match. Not sure that is really a critical problem, as the screens are painted black, and very seldom have any direct sunlight that could highlight the differences. And how often would a fabricated screen be directly compared to an OEM screen?
if I learn anything of value from my phone calls I will be posting it in this thread.
Larry
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@Larry, this is the kind of technical knowledge I've come to expect here. An excellent post, and perhaps having one made specific to my car might be the route to go...
"Steve, Brian‘s screen is an all-screen version without the raised air cleaner bubble. That pretty much guarantees it was not from a 1973 or 1974 car"
Thanks Larry, that makes sense. Also, I have a damaged screen from a Pushbutton if you want to add it to your analysis. Its mesh is aluminum.
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Steve,
if you have access to that cover can you get and post some measurements?
Width?
using a flexible cloth, or thin 50 foot tape, can you measure the length of the screen side edges?
thanks
Larry
The Pushbutton screen is 34" wide.
The curved part measurements are in the photo below.
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OK, I think we are getting somewhere now.
thanks for the measurements Steve, and thanks for reposting your photos, Brian.
both my long and short screens are 34 inches wide, matching Steve and Brian‘s screen width.
my short screen side length is 18 inches, and my long screen is 19 inches.
there is also a very apparent difference in the curvature between my long and short screens, the long version having a much greater curve.
not quite clear but it looks like Brian‘s screen curvature may have been distorted to fit his side cover curvature.
If that is correct, steve’s push button screen, Brian‘s screen and my long screen all have the same, large curvature. Also the same 19” length.
It appears to me that Brian has the correct side covers, but his center screen is the early 19” screen. at 5811 his car would have come with the bubble center and used Dzus fasteners. .
I have learned that Wilkinson now has reproductions of the bubble Center, which might be the easiest solution for Brian.
Not sure anyone will ever decode and fully understand the five different systems, but we know more than when we started
Larry
All this research is keeping us off the streets at night. Our wives should be thankful...
I think Wilkinson's reproduction screen will be too long for Brian. I showed my screen to Wilkinson prior to shortening it and he said that his reproductions would have the same issue with #2695, the car I was working on at that time. He also explained how to go about shortening it.
To add to the mystery, I measured my early car (1744) panels. The center screen is flat, mesh - 34" wide. The side panels are 19" from front to back. The driver's side panel has the gas filler cutout. Even my center panel hangs "slightly over" the back of the side panels by about 1/4". I never could understand why, but it does. I highly doubt a PO replaced any of these on my car.
That said, Brian, Larry Stock shows that he has several center panels in his catalog. Give him a call: Pantera Parts Connection | 550 Mallory Way Carson City, NV 89701 | (800) 338-6627
Clarifying - the 19" is the total curved length of the side panel. That is not the straight length measured from the firewall to the back edge of the panel. That is only 16+ inches.
I measured mine with a cloth tape stretched over the curve to get the full effect...
Done the same way Brian. 19.0"
I've bookmarked the page in the Pantera Parts catalogue. I thought I might check in with a local fabricator and see what it would cost to make something new. I'll let you know what I find out if I decide to go that way. And to add on to what Larry posted earlier, the catalogue does not include any measurements in their parts description
Curiouser and curiouser...
I believe Steve’s bubble reproductions would be only for the late cars built after 5001 with Dzus fasteners.
because the bubble centers apparently had the large curvature, they would be the long version and that would not work for 2695, which should be an 18” car
Steve - A bubble, large curvature reproduction, needing shortening to fit 2695, would be a 19” with a curvature mismatch for 2695. Was this curvature issue discussed with Wilkinson???
Steve - are you sure your screen came from a push button, or could it have been a post push button prior to 2002??
Pantera Pat - your measurements indicate you have a large curvature panel, and would appear to be correct for 1744
if you want to eliminate that quarter inch overhang, you could just trim the necessary amount from the forward edge that sits in the U channel. That might necessitate drilling new screw holes in your side covers
I am now thinking the large curvature, 19 inch flat screen panels were used for all cars prior to 2002.
so the early cars had a large curvature, then at 2002 the screens became the shallow curvature, but after 5001 returned to the large curvature for the bubble screen????
If correct this tells me the 19 inch large curvature screens are a rare animal. Shortening one to fit a post 2002 car seems reasonable, but its rarity means it should not be altered?
Larry
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As for Larry Stock I spoke with him this morning. Yes he has various screens stashed in his upper storage mezzanine. But he is leaving tomorrow for the great lakes Pantera gathering, then on to Florida and thus won’t be available for awhile.
Larry
Nice work Larry - Kojack is on the case here for sure.
Brian, I would call Larry when he get's back or go see him since he is in your state!
Thanks Pat, just got off the phone with him and I sent him a bunch of pictures of my car. He has some ideas using a late model screen with the hump, which while not needed, would fit nevertheless and provide the rain protection too...we'll see since he's on the road...
Good to know. I'm still a bit concerned for the fit at the back over the distributor...
UPDATE - I managed to mis-remember Brian’s‘ car. Instead of 5811 it is 2811
THEREFORE,
I’m not sure the Wilkinson reproduction bubble center will fit your car.
Wilkinson told Steve his reproduction bubble cover would need to be shortened for 2695,
BUT -
I do not think the length is the only problem to installing a bubble cover on a Pre VIN5001 car.
Brian’s current side covers appear to be the later style (not original to 2811 ) that used Dzus fasteners, which would be correct for the large curvature of the bubble center.
if the previous owner did not modify the side covers then the bubble center might fit.
but the mismatch between the side covers and the center cover rear edges still tells me something is out of whack somewhere.
Brian, I think you should remove all three sections and take a series of photos for us to study.
I just don’t want to see Brian start to collect side covers and screens if his current pieces can be sorted out for a correct fit
Larry
😳😳
in your earlier photos it looked like there was some screen distortion near one of those screws. Is that correct? If so, is it on both sides?
Larry
In this picture you can see my fingers on the right lifting it up, hence that bit of distortion at the nut...
Can you lay your screen on a flat surface and take a side, profile photo
Larry
Thanks 😁
Yep, it is the large curvature version.
it does measure 19 inches, correct?
and I believe that version was only correct for cars before VIN 2002
what we really need at this point is for someone with a bubble cover to get a ruler and find out if it is an 18 inch or 19 inch cover.
because the bubble cover has a large curvature it seems reasonable that it is 19 inches like the earlier large curvature flat screen version?????
but if yours is 19 inches and the bubble version is 19 inches, yours should be fitting much better on the side covers.????
Larry
Yes, 19 inches. The side covers is where the fit is off. This started because I can hear the screen rattle because it isn't secured on those spots. Not sure what the fix is for that. How hard is it to replace the side covers?
All three pieces of the engine cover are hard to find and pricey when you do.
if my previous conjectures are correct, you have an early early large curvature flat screen (prior to 2002) and the last bubble version, outside fuel door, (after 5001) large curvature side covers. They are both 19 inch, so I am still perplexed why you have your fitment issue.
none of your three pieces are correct for your VIN 2811
Could you pull the side covers and see how the three pieces fit together outside the engine bay?
Larry
@Larry. I can pull the side covers, but not till next week. I have out of town company rolling in...I sure appreciate all the effort you all are putting into this!
@tsolo, THAT is an interesting idea. However, it still gives me the same screen with the scoop, the very thing, along with the fitment, I'm trying to get rid of.
Tsolo, thanks for the photos that are showing that the bubble cover is also 18 inches
My assumption that the bubble cover would be 19 inches is proven wrong.
So if the bubble cover is 18 then the early (past 2002) and the Dzus side covers must also be 18
I must admit I am getting more than a bit confused on the curvature differences that I see with the screens in my garage.
but with these new photos I can return to my cautious belief that a late bubble cover should match Brian’‘s side covers
One thought is that the support brackets for the side covers can become bent and/or pushed forward/backwards, all of which would cause fitment issues.
if Brian wants a flat center screen to match his current side covers he will have to have it made, find an early early cover that can be shortened, or find a post 2002 flat screen and adjust the curvature to fit the side panels as needed
The previous owner who added the side fuel door is undoubtedly the source of this fitment issue 😤
Larry
When Wilkinson helped me with shortening my screen he explained that the curvature of the screen can be adjusted to match the side engine covers. While doing such I noticed that the mesh is springy and readily changes while the mild steel channels at the sides are defining the curvature. I was able to carefully bend mine into place.
@Larry, yeah, I've kind of seen that coming. I am going to check in with a local fabricator and just see what's possible.
"Steve - are you sure your screen came from a push button, or could it have been a post push button prior to 2002??"
I cannot be certain that the aluminum screen came with the car from the factory. I do know that its initial restoration started around 1990 and the dust on the screen pictured matched all of the other parts that came with the car. Also, the screen fit perfectly into the car. Damage to the screen likely happened during storage. movement, and transport.
I have an extra original center screen with the air cleaner rasied center available for sale, PM if interested. 400 plus shipping
Brian: To respond to your earlier question about the fact your current screen is loose and banging around when you drive, a simple fix (assuming the holes line up between the screen and side panels) is to buy two small bolts and matching wing nuts at ACE hardware. Bolt comes up from below and put a washer on top and the wing nut. If they holes do not align, take the center screen off and drill a new hole on each side to align with your side panels first. Candidly, you might have to do this with what ever new center screen you find as well.
@tomcat72, can you send me pictures and exact measurements? As you can see from this thread, each Pantera, especially mine, has it's own unique fitment issues...
@pat, the holes on the "front" edge do not line up with the holes that are on the side covers, another reason for my posting. But then I'm assuming that the holes on the screen or the side covers are "standard"
If I am not mistaken, the center panel has 2 holes on each side. One about midway back from the window and then one at the back. On my car, I put a small bolt and acorn nut to fill the first hole and only secure my panel using the back hole. The fact the screen is secured in the U channel in front and bolted in back makes it totally secure. There is no banging or movement. I did this because I couldn't see removing 4 bolts to get that panel out. Using wing nuts on the back two bolts make this a 2 second removal.
You could also just put a pop rivet in the hole in center if you didnt want to see a blank hole
Thanks Tomcat, definitely too small for my fitment, plus I'm looking for no cutout if possible. I am a full 34 inches wide and I'm 19 inches front to back, which is about 1/2 inch too much. So my fitment would be 34 inches wide and 18 1/2 inches front to back. Every one seems to be slightly different. But thanks for posting...
Understood. I definitely learned a lot on this topic. I had no idea there were so many variations.
You have our head in it more than me. What year/generation is my cover from? Or do we know yet? It didn't come with my car. I got it on a trade with other parts.
@tomcat, Panterapat has been super helpful on this topic. Read all the previous posts. There's more on this thread...
My apologies George, but I don't know what your post means?
I believe he may be suggesting a method whereby your pictures will appear in large format, with no action required on the part of the reader to see them in all their glory!
Click George’s link to find out how!
Rocky
AH HA!!! Thank you very much! Learn something new every day...
I believe this is the engine cover that matches your side covers.
@tsolo, looking for something without the hump. Plus no measurements are included in the add. I'm going to message the seller anyway and ask for the measurements...thanks for the tip!
Brian, the eBay cover is the one that is designed for your car and the only one that will seamlessly install on your car.
A center cover fully made of screen will not mount to your side covers. The side covers for the all screen center cover do not have a provision for your outside fuel door.
You can ask Mike Mayberry, who is the eBay seller, for dimensions, but it is totally useless information for you.
The only way you are going to get a screen center cover is through a lot of custom work.
it’s time for all of us to stop beating on this dead horse
Larry
You lost me. How does the side cover having provisions for the outside fuel door effect the center cover? The one on e-bay would work (assuming the dimensions are correct) whether it was just screen or with the air cleaner hump. Long live the horse.
Husker, “assuming The dimensions are correct” sums up the entire problem here. No one knows what the correct dimensions are for mixing and matching early and late engine screen systems.
An outside fuel door car requires an outside fuel door left-hand side cover. None of those side covers were ever installed with a full screen. Could the full screen cover work with the late side covers, who knows!!??
The early full screen covers attached with sheet metal screws. The later hump center covers attached with Dzus fittings. That is custom fabrication task number one
I do not know if all of the screens and all of the side covers are equal width. That is to say, what is the center gap between the early side covers and the late side covers??
if they are not the same then the center covers will not dimensionally interchange. Custom fabrication task number two?? Remember, we already need to rework the mounting system
if the center gap is different then early side covers must be used with the early full screen center cover. But, the left hand side cover for the all screen center covers were for cars that had engine bay fuel filling, not the outside fuel doors. So if you have to use all three early pieces you will have to customize the left-hand piece so it can work with the outside fuel door on Brian‘s car.
of course, we also don’t know if the later fullscreen center cover would even have sufficient clearance with Brian‘s intake manifold, carburetor and air cleaner.
Anything other than that is a crapshoot sure to require an unknown amount of modification and fabrication .
additionally, he will need to actually find and purchase a full screen center. Will that be $300 or $500 if you can find one? And after spending the money and finding it will not fit,……
The only easy solution is for Brian to give up on the full screen center desire and install the center that is correct for his car.
Brian, with sufficient no-set-budget funds available, no limit on the time and effort, the necessary skill sets and fabrication abilities, welding, and who knows what else, yes, you can have a full screen center cover.
Just how much are you prepared to invest?
Larry
"The only easy solution is for Brian to give up on the full screen center desire and install the center that is correct for his car."
THIS. Like many Panteras, modifications have been made to mine to take it out of the realm of "stock", thus requiring more "creative" methods to find something that works. That said, the reverse facing shaker scoop on mine is proving to be a point of interest for folks.
I'm going to look into a few other options including new fabrication, budget isn't unlimited, but need to fully understand my options. I'll post here again when I figure it out. For now, I've emailed the seller on Ebay for exact measurements, they responded with some guess-timates, but will get back to me with exact numbers in a few days.
Thanks you all for the help, dead horses and all...