Reply to "400 Engine"

> You don't want a 400. its a modified like the 351m, and in my opinion not
> good for anything but a light truck or a grocery getter.

They had very low compression, a wimpy cam, 2 barrel carb, single exhaust
and were total dogs in stock early emissions-era form but there's no
reason they have to stay that way. The potential is there since they are
essentially just 351 Clevelands with (usually) thicker walls, a half inch
longer stroke (for the 400), an inch taller deck (10.297" vs 9.206") and
nice long rods (6.580" vs 5.778"). Slap a set of 4V heads, aluminum
high ports or CHI heads on top with a matching intake (use the spacers),
a decent cam and compression and it'll be a completely different engine.
I know a guy who drag raced a 400 like that for several seasons, turning
7000 RPM through the traps.

> Jon Kaase just won the popular hotrodding master engine builders with one
> using off the shelf components; almost 700hp.

No. John Kaase used an XE 4-bolt main Australian 351C block for his winning
entry. It was stroked with a Sonny Bryant 4" stroke 351C crank. Kaase
originally wanted to use a 351M/400 block to take advantage of the 1" taller
deck height but the rules makers at PHR wouldn't allow it. Nor would they
allow the use of an aftermarket block for 351C so I sold Jon my XE block.

> Weighs more, yea, but not like the big blocks.

The 351M/400 blocks are around 196 lbs. Aluminum heads will easily offset
the weight of the block. I have one of the small-block pattern 400 blocks
that I was going to use before I got the XE block which in turn has been
replaced by a Fontana aluminum block. The nice thing about the 351M/400
blocks is can offset grind the cranks and take the displacement to 430+
cubes and still have good wall thickness. One cheap combo is to use a
set of late 240/6 cylinder Ford rods.

> Wasn't there a bell housing for the big block to the ZF?

Yes, most 351M/400 blocks have the 429/460 bellhosuing pattern.

> Take note that the motor mounts are different too.

400's have unique (3 bolt holes in a triangular pattern) motor mounts but
the ones with the small block pattern also have additional undrilled bosses
in the small block motor mount location. Oddly enough, it seems to be hit
or miss wether a particular block will have all 4 or just 3 of the required
bosses. As it turns out, it doesn't really matter for a Pantera since it
should be quite easy to make a custom upper mount.

Panteras use a three piece motor mount set up with one aluminum casting
bolted to the block with two vertical bolts, another bolted to the frame,
and a rubber donut bolted in between at a 45 degree angle. Since the 400's
motor mounts bosses are already at 45 degrees (351C's are vertical), the
upper mount can be quite simple. A triangular flat plate with 3 bolts holes,
a circular cut out for the donut and through bolt, and maybe a cut out for
wrench clearance should do the trick.

> The easiest way to equip the Pantera with cubic inches will be a 351W based
> stroker, common displacements being 393, 408, 427 & 454. This block has the
> same trans bolt pattern, same engine mounts as the 351C.

You can stroke 351C blocks to 408 (and 393, 377, etc) without drama.
That would be the easiest way to get extra cubes.

> I haven't seen the technical details about Kaase's Engine Masters motor, but
> since he chose to run canted valve heads he was constrained by rules to use a
> block that was originally equipped with canted valve heads. The displacement
> limit for that contest was 410 cu.in. & its easier to achieve 410 cu.in. with
> the 400 than the 351C.

Yes but none of the entries used 351M/400 blocks as they were deemed an
unfair advantage (longer rods, more stable ring pack). There were five or
six Cleveland-based EMC entries. All but one used a 351C block.

Jon Kaase - CHI head, 351C XE block, Sonny Bryant crank
Dave Mclain, Scott Johnson, Brian Adams - CHI heads, SCAT crank, stock block
Tony Bischoff - 351C with Blue Thunder heads, 4.06" bore x 3.95" stroke
Jeff Lawrence - iron 4V heads and 351C block, 4.035" bore x 4.0" stroke
Scott Main and Bob Moore - CHI "Boss 302" heads on big-bore Dart 302 block

Note that Scott Main got around the rule by running a Boss 302. He used a
Dart block bored to 4.25" and 3.6" stroke crank to get 408.5 cubes. Way
out there on the ragged edge but good enough to make the finals. Also note
that the CHI heads were among the best legal for the EMC competition heads
but that doesn't mean they are the best of the best. High port heads like
the Ford Motorsport C302, B351, A3 and Brodix C302B clones were not legal
and can flow as well as or better than the CHI heads. My A3's and C302's
outflow CHI's claimed numbers due primarily to the raised ports. Since
off-the-shelf headers are available for high ports, they are a good choice
for Panteras. Still the CHI heads are good pieces. Just wait until you see
how much better Kaase's heads flow than the Windsor or SBC competition.

> But those motors do not equate to the same world where you & I are operating
> our Panteras. My advice is don't let Kaase's choice influence your selection.

True but there will good lessons to learn. You'll see it's cylinder
head/intake flow, compression ratio, camshaft (RPM), and cubes that make
power.

> Even though the 385 serries puts the tansaxle back further, wouldn't the 400
> be in the same spot as the cleveland? It has the same external dymentions of
> a Cleveland except for the increase in deck height. It's basically a stroked
> cleveland.

Yes.

400's make sense for a Pantera where they minimize the
swap hassles and make maximum re-use of existing engine parts. They also
make sense for trucks or cars already equipped with a 351M (or stock 400),
since there is no swap cost involved. For most other applications, the
tendency is to jump to a 460 if you can stand the weight or go to a stroked
351W if you can't.

As far as 400 potential goes, here's a dyno test from a guy I know that
built one for a Pantera:

"Well, here's the info most of you have been waiting for....I took the Pantera
motor to Cobra Restorers, in Kennesaw, GA, after getting fed up w/not being
able to tune the carbs up properly, and then had it dynoed by my engine
builder, when he got up above 4000 rpms I left the room b/c I was afraid
what might happen. Here are the results:

RPM HP TQ
2000 158 415
2500 212 445
3000 274 480
3500 352 527
4000 431 566
4500 500 583
5000 543 571
5500 567 541
6000 577 505
6500 567 458

Here are the engine parts:
Ford 400 FMX block, bored .030", 4-bolt main
Stock rods/crank
Arias forged pistons
351C 4V heads, ported, 2.19/1.76 SS valves, 11:1 CR
Comp Pro Magnum 1.73 intake/1.8 exhaust roller rockers
Hall Pantera manifold
PME intake spacers
Weber 48 IDA's, 45mm chokes, Inglese needle/seats/circuits
Comp 32-771-8 Magnum roller cam
GTS Equal-length 2" headers"

----------------------------------------------
Part Number 32-771-8
Engine 1970-1982 Ford
351ci-400ci
351C, 351M-400M,
8cyl.
Grind Number FC 288R-10
Description
----------------------------------------------
Intake Exhaust
Valve Adjustment 0.02 0.02
Gross Valve Lift 0.623 0.623
Duration At 0.015 288 288
Tappet Lift

Valve Timing At 0.015:
Open Close
Intake 38 70
Exhaust 78 30

Specs For the Cam Installed at 106 Intake CL:
Intake Exhaust
Duration At 0.05 244 244
Lobe Lift 0.3666 0.3666
Lobe Separation 110

Recommended Valve Springs 929-16
150 lbs @ 1.90"
434 lbs @ 1.23"
437 lb/in

Dan Jones