quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug: Ooy! Kids! Chances are the air cleaners that YOU have are the ones that IPSCO made for just about every Pantera shop out there? ..Try their web site first. Then call them if you have too……… Call IPSCO. Describe the air cleaners you have or even text or email them pictures of the tops and bottoms that you have. They very likely will say, "yep, we made 'em". Then there is your window of opportunity, just say, "I need new air filters for them that fit right", well considering all the aspects of recent discussions here, maybe say "I need the correct air filters". Stay away from using the term right.
http://www.ipsco.org/Pantera.htm
Though Mark has made many, he has never made any Pantera IR EFI filters like that for anyone other Quella and me…and mine differ from Dennis’ in the manner I mentioned in the previous post. I have adapted mine for a few guys that wanted to use my version of the filter (which is also wider) for use on their IR EFI system based on the Hall intake, because they use standard K&N filters you can buy one at a time instead of being confronted with what Mike is now. Mark has never sold these (other than Quella/PPC) or even similar versions for Weber IDA Carbs to Hall nor any other Pantera vendor. He made one set of Weber IDA Carb filters for himself and the base is much more complex to interface with the IDAs…that’s it, and that’s still the case.
So if that is a filter base and lid were made by Mark (IPSCO), I know what it is. I say if, because the first thing that usually happened after Mark developed and made something nice was all the West coast shops reverse engineered it and locally sourced their own version. So if that happens to be the case, Mike’s filters could be just about anything, and I can’t help ya, other than the recommendation to splice the elements to proper size. That’s why I asked for a picture of Mikes EFI system. Odds are it is Quella’s, and if the velocity stacks nest nicely in those pockets, odd’s are even greater this is such because the IPSCO v-stacks also have some unique dimensional features
quote:The tops and the bottoms that you have were made in consideration of what air filters were available.
Yes, according to Mark, the K&N filter element may have had its origins for use in a similar Weber IDA filter assembly, but it wasn’t for IPSCO or Quella. They just chose to use this element and there was a reason for it and it’s the same reason the filter element gland in the filter base breaks into the radius on the vstack opening
….and that’s because the passenger side filter assembly becomes too long and hits the back window when you use taller elements or mount them on top of TWM throttle bodies. Same thing happens on IDA Carbs. Dimensionally they could make it all work with that filter element which has long since gone obsolete. All this was more than twelve years ago, and when I spoke to K&N engineering then, they declined to disclose the original purpose for the filter, but were quite clear about it being unavailable for quite some time and IIRC, didn’t want to talk about it unless it was a minimum order of 50-100 and still ridiculous price and lead time. So you’re SOL unless some other manufacturer started making a comparable element.
The other thing you need to know about these K&N filter elements is they’re just round elements that have no wire reinforcement so they are flexible enough to be formed into ovals and other shapes and that’s why they’re popular for making custom filter assemblies. They also get a bit flimsy in taller heights because of this. You may think all you need to do is calculate the circumference of your oval and buy a round filter of the same circumference. However, when you bend them they stretch more on the OD then they compress on the ID and the cross section also distorts, so they won’t fit the filter gland like you expect if that’s all you do. All of this is the kind of stuff that’s learned by those who actually have done it instead of just having read about it on the internet.
quote:The air cleaner assemblies really offer no special advantages. In fact they are cumbersome as all heck. They even partially block your rear view and the only thing they are even marginally good for is keeping the water out of the stacks when you wash the car…… The air cleaner assemblies really offer no special advantages.
True, no performance advantage; no air filters do….it’s more about minimizing the loss associated with having clean air for you engine. But Mike here’s some good advice, run open stacks on the street at your own peril pal, and if you think you current experience is unpleasant just wait until your engine ingests a piece of debris large enough to bend a valve and then see what you have on your hands. There was a reason Roger was pointing that out all that garbage the engine compartment collected. If I was you I’d fix the filter element because as you’ve noted you’re wasting your time reading plugs and tuning with this condition. I use E-3710 (2” tall). It’s been so long I don’t recall, but even though they may be sufficient circumference, they may are a wider cross section and if so, not useful to spliced and be used for your hardware.
quote:In fact they are cumbersome as all heck. They even partially block your rear view and the only thing they are even marginally good for is keeping the water out of the stacks when you wash the car.
I got tired of the filter assembly coming apart in my hands every time I took the filters off, so I made a simple mod that allows them to remain assembled when removed and would recommend you do the same. Just put a threaded insert into the base, and a ¼-20 stud through the threaded insert such that it sticks up into the filter interior far enough to screw the standoff on (locktite). It needs to protrude below the base far enough to slide the v-stack clamp on with a wing nut. After you get things stable, use either a ny-lock wing nut or drill a hole in the wing and safety wire it. On the rear view mirror part, just try to concentrate on what’s in front of you.
Best,
K