quote:Originally posted by goodroc:quote:You would have to relocate the alternator. The alternator in the Pantera is right up against the cylinder head and there is no room for the vacuum pump there.
If you are going to start changing master brake cylinders irregardless of whether or not they bolt up (which they probably will) you must know the bore diameter of what you have and what you are putting in.
Like Scott said, you are changing the feel of the brake pedal.
That is a balance between output pressure to the brakes and leg effort.
I doubt that you will be happy by going larger than 1".
Most cars are going to like somewhere between 3/4" bore and 1".
If you go over 1" you increase the effort but not necessarily the pressure.
Race cars do that to reduce the tendency of locking up the brakes with too sensitive a brake pedal.
In the Pantera be careful about giving the rear brakes too much bite. If you increase the braking in the rear you need to increase the front braking proportionally or else the rear will be locking up too early and the rear will come around on you.
There is a reason Detomaso has those small calipers engineered into the car, and that is the reason why.
Mid engine cars need to be balanced in a way where anyone can drive them safely. It isn't anything to play around with unless you have a lot of knowledge and experience on brake systems.
Your car with those beautiful big brakes can suddenly be a dangerous unsafe monster.
Best to go with a system already engineered and tested under extreme conditions to work well. Scott has already done a lot of work on making kits available for the Pantera.
Bigger rear pads with more braking torque are going to need an adjustable brake proportioning valve to dial out a percentage of the torque you just put in. You are also going to need about a days work on a private tarmac somewhere to get the adjustment right. You can not do that on a public street safely and if you try you likely will get arrested for unsafe driving and endangering the public.
About the Vacuumpump on Alternator, I didn't actually say it was an easy option, just an option. We are all spending tons of hours of modifications with sometime minor benefits. Just because we like modifications and it makes us proud to achieve something cool (nerdy by someone) For example I did a lot of work and spend a (relatively) lot of $$$$$$ just to get the passenger backrest 1,5" further back. Does it make sense? don't know..... perhaps for my wife. But it is a cool mod!
About the Master cylinder, I couldn't agree more with what you say. Of course the bore must match or else other precautions should be taken so that the Brakes remains balanced. On the photo of the Fiat Master you will see it is 25,4mm = 1"
And btw here were I live NO person will ever get arrested for testing their Brakes on a remote piece of road (public) ;-) Not even by the meanest rookie cop.
PanteraDoug; I was just trying to help with options, whatever people do is their entire own responsibility, agree?
Sure I agree. I think the most likely solution in the Pantera to the low vacuum issue is a separate electric pump. That way you can find some room somewhere under there to put it in.
The pump on the back of the alternator is a fantastic idea if it would fit. I'd be out buying that alternator right now.
I'm pretty sure that is the same size bore as the stock Pantera master cylinder. It's about right to keep the brakes from locking up.
Police it Europe must be more sympathetic than here. Here there is no mercy by mindless Police.
Some are just plane antagonistic and confrontational.
None of them live in the same cities where the work. If they did they would actually have to show their faces on the street and face the people that they abuse.
NYC is the worst. They have stop and frisk rules there and you HAVE to carry identification. Very much a harbinger of the coming Police State here in the US.
Their excuse is it is for everyone's safety and security.
I suppose that's what the Nazi's told the German people in the beginning too?
Too bad. No one would suspect the US was going in that direction?
I wonder which country we will invade next?