quote:Originally posted by DOES 200:
Ha ha, so much for my initial naive thought of just turning 4 bleeder screws, sucking fluid through, filling with correct fluid and then having lunch. Although I ended up struggling with my situation a little bit, I am glad I didn't end up with some of this business above.
Actually all of this re-plumbing in the front trunk is on the easy side and if you do anything to the brakes that is not completely stock should be considered as required.
In my opinion that includes even just changing from the stock brake compounds to something like the Porterfield's.
What is tough is making the plumbing look artistic and presentable?
The entrance spots through the floor and the way the inner fender curves in make it tough to do a nice loop-d'-loop on the metal lines.
The real criteria for needing a real proportioning valve is how much rear braking your modifications create.
If you are going to do any work on the lines, take the stock proportioning valve out, plumb the fronts together and install a Wilwood proportioning valve into the rears.
Just leave the dial stock, i.e., as it is delivered out of the package and try the car.
You need to remember though that to begin with the stock Pantera has VERY "decent" brakes stock.
Putting wider wheels, wider and better compound tires AND changing the shocks and springs (changes the weight transfer and therefore the tire loading) and ALL are messing with that balance.
You are increasing the braking on the car significantly and putting in race capable, i.e., race car like brakes. Brakes on the order of "Factory GT Racing" (where the car manufacturers compete,i.e., "the Big Boys".)
This stock balancing is probably ok for street driving and the imbalance, where you lock up the rear first and the rear wants to come around (like the stunt drivers do in the movies) is going to happen MOST LIKELY at double and triple the legal street speeds.
Some of these Panteras now have much better brakes in them than the late 60's and 70's race cars did and are closer to the old Can-Am cars than you think.
One last remark on this subject though, the stock pads for purely stock/street driving are probably the best you can use for just jumping into the car and zooming off.
They take the least amount of heating up to work and work the best stone cold. They FEEL the most like "anyone" would expect brakes to feel like and therefore are probably the safeset set up for a novice.
The Porterfied 4s, "s" for street compound, are not so good stone cold, those things need to get hot to work, THEN they cut 30 feet off of you stopping distance.
Stone cold the brake pedal is going to feel like concrete and will until the brakes get HOT. Hot as in, "why are your rotors glowing?"
If you let your "teenager" even just drive the car around the block with them good chance he/she is going to hit a tree? About three laps and they should be hot enough to stop the car at that point. You have to survive the three laps though.
My neighborhood resembles a LeMans start in the morning. It's pretty bad. They would hit a herd of elephants BEFORE they actually looked in their mirrors.
I have to wait until they all clear out before I go anywhere. Even the dog won't go for her walk with me until then. Smart dog.
Oh, and she's a Greyhound. Too tall to fit in the Pantera. She likes a convertible with the top down. She's tall enough to just roll up in the passenger seat and put her head on top of the door and "veg out".
...a fast convertible at that, saves her all the wear and tear of running, she's retired now.