Reply to "New Guy Fundamental Question"

The Pantera was my first encounter with 5 DS-25-x series ZFs. In recent years, as I became interested in mid engine component cars, I’ve learned more about a number of other viable alternatives but just have to say that I think -2 ZFs are a fine piece of engineering and I can’t ever see anything but the ZF residing in my Pantera. Have I ever found the need to alter the gearing to suit or wished I had a 6th gear for cruise? Occasionally yes (though I don’t do much highway cruising) but that’s no different than matching any other transmission and power train on any other non-Pantera build.

Given that the ZF is a 5-speed sync’d gear box and a limited slip differential, it is a very compact package that even with bell housing is light enough that I can pick it up from the floor and set it on my bench (maybe 175lbs or so?). The dense packaging is also why they require a fair bit of knowledge and special tools to maintain. With a few exceptions and a little common sense, they can perform very reliably with about anything that can be thrown at them with a normally aspirated sbf and this has been proven time and time again in many forms of motorsport. For the era they were developed, IMO, they are quite an impressive and venerable piece of engineering and a pretty darn nice compromise of performance and reliability.

Has an input shaft ever been snapped with high HP, slicks, and a 7krpm dump of the clutch-Yup. Do syncro’s wear out with use? Yup; but you’d have to confess the same for top-loaders and Muncies. Did they ever break under racing conditions? Yup; but what doesn’t? Did the GT40s of the 60’s squat a few of them? Yes, but the Hewlands and T44s were not exactly free from failures either. That environment humbled a lot of equipment and racers for that matter. Being able to extract high performance without breakage is another driver skill that helps keep equipment light and reliable.

On top of it all, the ZF just looks like it belongs in the PCar, and frankly, I’d say the same for GT40s. Aside from price to acquire and repair, I just can’t see why to deviate in a PCar.

Now, step out of the Pantera world, and I think similar cases can be made for G50, and perhaps ZFQ. Even though the initial results look very promising, ZFQs need to demonstrate a longer time-proven track record before they gain equal standing to ZFs in my eyes. Besides, they’re not even available in PCar configuration.
As far as Ricardo’s go, I think they’re probably in a class of their own as far as power/torque handling potential, but they’re a much larger unit than a -2 and require extensive chassis mods for Pantera use. If I built an SL-C, it would have a Ricardo.

Are there other high end boxes? Absolutely, but stratospherically priced.

By the time you’re done with the mods, I just don’t think the alternatives really saves you much money in the end for a Pantera.

The other lower cost boxes such as the Audi or Renault being used in component cars, though certainly viable, just don’t stack up in the durability category IMO.

It’s also worth noting that the new -2 boxes available from RBT IMO are actually improved versions with M1 main case and many internals.

Would I like them to be more economical; -You bet. But realistically, they are and always have been a low production volume part. I’m pleased they continue to be supported and available and even though the prices are what they are, I don’t think Lloyd or his partners are getting rich and anyone that knows them would know this to be true. I don’t begrudge them making a living.

Sometimes I think we can forget how blessed we are with the Pantera. Try having this conversation with the Lambo or Ferrari gang.

Best,
Kelly