Skip to main content

Reply to "Scratch 351 Cleveland Build - What Specs and Parts?"

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/cowbell-songs/

I say the 'stoned'...I mean 'Stones', "Honkey Tonk Woman".


A single Holley set up is giving away 80-100hp over a Weber IDA setup...easy. The "Weber cam" reduces overlap to reduce reversion of fuel through the carbs. You loose power because of that. (the cam, not the reversion) The Webers, back in the day, were run with just your basic outrageous timed racing cams and you could see the fuel plumes being thrown out of the carbs. You put a cookie tray over them that collects the raw fuel and lets it drip in an area that won't turn it into a bomb.

There was no consideration at all given to the reversion.

The 69-70 Boss 302 "factory" Trans Am race cars using the dual Holley "Dominator" carbs do EXACTLY the same thing. That's because that manifold IS an independent runner manifold, just like the Weber unit for the Pantera is.

There is no central plenum for the pulse to push back into to load the next intake charge, so the only place it can go is up and out of the carb.

A "classic" Fuel Injection system using the Weber IDA look a like throttle bodies doesn't have the same problem since there is no fuel held in suspension in the throttle body like a carburetor does.


There is another thought that I went through but never completed because I had the Webers working. You could go with a dual quad Holley set up.

There is a 351w dual quad that can be trimmed to fit the Cleveland with adapter plates. Price Motorsports.

Bill can make the adapter for aluminum heads but not 4v iron heads. He got the adapters done for me but never got the manifold cut for me. I waited a year so I gave up. Maybe he will sell you the stuff he made for me?

http://www.pricemotorsport.com/


If there is a drawback to that setup it is the runner flow on that manifold. It flows 285cfm. Many single planes flow over 320cfm now.

The plus is that it is a VERY torque-ie manifold down low AND unless you use a cam that enables 357 inches to be able to use 330 cfm, i.e., over .600 lift, you are wasting your time anyway with worry about intake manifold flow.

Dual quad Holleys with the Ford progressive linkage and vacuum secondary carbs have a characteristic all their own, as well as a sound in and unto themselves. NOTHING else sounds like them or drives like them for that matter.

DO NOT go with the Edelbrock, Carter, AFB dual set up. Those were on the GM's of the 50 and 60's and they have mechanical secondaries and that is NOT the preferred way to use dual quads.


On heads. Many do go through an entire discussion of how much the head flows, but on a Cleveland that flow is only over .600. Actually right around .620-.630 lift. Then they put in a cam with .578" lift? Makes no sense.

Generally to make a lot of horsepower in a Cleveland with stock displacement you need a lot of lift on the cam and you need to turn enough rpm to pump it. Otherwise you go with a big cube stroker. Then about the same amount of power is there but it is down low in the 5,000 rpm range just like a Ford 427 is.



Dan Jones showed that the iron 4v closed chamber heads with a nice valve job but nothing else flow right around 300cfm, but again right around .600 lift. That probably is enough intake flow for a 351? It might not make any more power than that even with a 330cfm intake flow? You could interpret the dyno results in that way.

The issue for the iron heads is the exhaust port which to compliment the intake needs radical modification to do it.



Changing the displacement of the engine but using the same heads, changes where the rpm where the maximum hp is achieved. Brings it lower in the rpm range. More cubes even makes the A3 heads work better.

With a 351c you have to drive it like you hate it. Then it's making power.


You are going to have characteristics more of a Ford 427 if you stroke the Cleveland. That isn't all bad, just a different engine with torque all over the place and drives like a big electric motor. May as well just have a PK (paddle shifted manual trans with no clutch pedal) and drive it like you would a slot car or a go cart. Just point it and punch it. Not too much sense of that scream that a small block would be making. Screaming for mercy for it's life maybe? Big Grin
Last edited by panteradoug
×
×
×
×