> I am from the UK but based with work in Singapore at the moment.
I was there just in Singapore a few months ago. I guess I should have
posted to see if any owners were there. In case any Pantera owners are
nearby, I'll be in Montreal, Canada (specifically Mirabel, Quebec), Belgium
and Dayton, Ohio in the near future.
> Cylinder Heads Early Boss 4V
Those cylinder heads are not Boss. Boss heads had adjustable valve train and
were set up with studs and guide plates. Are the heads open or closed chamber?
Post a picture of combustion chambers if you can. If you retain the cylinder
heads, be aware that 4V heads respond well to smoothing of the bowl area just
below the valve seats and short side radius work.
> we then switched the incorrect carb for the correct four barrel
Can you provide the list number on the carb (stamped on the choke air horn)?
The intake pictured is a single plane Edelbrock Torker.
> Your pistons are Sealed Power (Speed-Pro) part number: L2379F.
Both TRW and Sealed Power/Speed Pro used the same L2379F part numbers (TRW
was acquired by Federal Mogul, parent company of Sealed Power/Speed Pro).
The pistons changed after TRW was acquired and the later L2379F pistons are
Speed Pros. Yours are Speed Pros as evidenced by the Speed Pro logo stamped
into the piston top. They are forged flat top pistons. The current versions
have coated skirts. Do yours? You mention the engine was built 25 years ago.
I believe it has been into more recently as those pistons didn't exist at that
time (only the TRW version did).
> Any idea whether they are appropriate, inappropriate for this build?
Assuming they aren't damaged, they should be fine for a street high
performance build.
> Engine block sound, but would need further checks to block height, due to
> pistons extending out of bores.
Cometic will make custom thickness head gaskets to offset the decked block.
> Camshaft Comp Cams 32-225-4 (06296) as new cond'
That's a single pattern Comp Cams 280H flat tappet hydraulic camshaft.
Specs are:
280 degrees duration at 0.050" lift
230 degrees advertised duration
0.530" lift
110 lobe separation angle
60 degrees of overlap
> We also have measurements and tests on valve lift and compression:
> Camshaft lift Exhaust .307" Inlet .305"
351C rocker ratio is 1.73:1. 0.530/1.73:1 = 0.306" lobe lift which
checks with what you've measured.
> Push rods 8.402-5
If those were right to begin with, they won't be with a thicker head gasket
or an undecked block.
> Inlet valve 2 3/16 diameter
> Exhaust valve 1 45/64 diameter
Those are 4V valve diameters (2.19" intake, 1.71" exhaust). You need
to check if the valve stems are single or multi groove. If the valves
have multiple grooves, throw them away. If not, look for part numbers
(usually near the tips). Are you retaining the rocker arms? If so,
post a close up picture of the rocker arms. They should have steel
(not aluminum fulcrums) and there is a potential issue with higher lift
cams (lugged vs unlugged rockers). See the info here:
You oil pan capacity is standard. There were several variations of
that pan. Some had scrapers and a baffle like this one:
However, Panteras set up with good tires are capable of uncovering the oil
pick up during hard cornering or braking. Armondo and Aviad make custom
Pantera gated and baffled larger capacity oil pans.
More tech info here:
http://www.bacomatic.org/galle...ars/album04/album24/
> The aim is to have a street engine that revs high without having too lumpy
> an idle. I am looking for torque but consistent smooth torque across the
> rev range.
Street performance 4V Clevelands built with a fair bit of overlap tend to
come on like a light switch around 3000 RPM. It takes some experience to
know what to do to get around that.
> At the end of the day, if we end up with around 400 bhp and
> 400 lbs-ft then I'll be absolutely overjoyed.
Is that at the crank or at the wheels? You won't do it at the wheels
with a smooth idle open chamber 351C-4V. Properly assembled and dialed
in, the parts you have now are maybe 370 HP at the crank, 300 at the
rear tire, assuming you have enough carb.
> Edelbrock timing gears fitted, but have been modified to fit into crankshaft.
> Camshaft chain and sprocket required.
> Advise good chain and sprocket replacement.
Be aware there are some very bad timing chain sets out there.
Most vendors of timing sets do not make the timing sets they sell. Instead,
they repackage the chain and gears from multiple vendors. You need to know
who made the sprockets and chains. One of the guys on the FE Big Block Ford
forum used to work at Speed Pro. When he worked there they had offshore
companies trying to be suppliers, so they piggybacked some chain and sprocket
testing on an OE bearing durability dyno run. The Rolon chain from India
cost them the test motor a couple times when it failed before the test was
completed. Having just disassembled a 351C that had a Rolon chain, I can
believe it. This engine had approximately 8000 miles on the chain and it
was stretched worse than the one I pulled from my 5.0L at 163,000 miles. A
summary of the test results for the chains is listed below. Speed Pro ended
up using Dynagear sprockets and Morse chain but had some quality control
issues then Dynagear went out of business. After that they sourced the high
end Cloyes sets (which used high quality Renold and Iwis chain) and the
quality control complaints went away. Take a look at the name on the
sprockets and the name on the chain and let me know what they say. FWIW,
The Ford Motorsport 351C timing sets I've purchased have used the Renold
chain Mike Drew reports he recently examined a set that had a no name chain
and the top of the line J.P. Performance sets used the Iwis/Jwis chain.
The Cloyes true rollers are usually pretty good and reasonably priced and
the last Comp Cams set I examined was good.
The sprockets tend to come from Rollmaster (Australia), SA Gear (US but poor
quality) and Cloyes (US, not pretty but good quality). Avon also makes some
sprockets but sources others. Dynagear (US) used to make sprockets but went
out of business. A bunch of the performance aftermarket companies are selling
the poor quality chain from India (Rolon), along with sprockets from Australia
(Rollmaster, J.P Performance) or SA gear.
Chain durability testing summary:
Iwis (German) - looks very nice but was not tested, but has excellent
reputation as an OE supplier, used in high end Rollmaster
and some high end Cloyes sets
Cloyes (US) - tested OK
Renold (France) - tested excellent, used in most high end Cloyes sets but not
always
Morse (US and Mexico) - tested excellent
Daido (Japan) - tested excellent
Tsubaki (Japan) - tested excellent
KCM (Japan) - looks very nice but was not tested
Rolon (India) - failed test
Sprockets:
Rollmaster - Aus - pretty - never examined QA, good reputation
SA Gear - US - ugly - crappy
Cloyes - US - not pretty - good QA
Dynagear - US - out of business - so-so when they existed
Avon - some sprockets, buys everything else
Crane - buys everything
Comp - buys everything
Speed-Pro - buys everything
Ebrock - buys everything
Melling - buys everything
Elgin - buys everything
Note: Some of the test data was from Speed Pro, other from TRW.
Also, your balancer probably needs to be rebuilt or replaced. For your
application, I'd recommend an SFI spec elastomer balancer such as the
Australian made Powerbond part number PB-1082-SS (351C, 28.2 oz-in,
SFI, steel). I can put you in touch with a vendor who will meet or
beat Summit's price while verifying you get the right parts.
> The engine is running Hall Pantera 180 Degree headers
In case you aren't aware of it, I run a dyno evaluation program for this
forum (and a couple of others) where I test various Cleveland parts. We
have several engines that we test on, one of which is a 351C with L2379F
pistons. We also have a variety of intakes (including a Torker like yours)
and headers (including the Hall 180's). We've gathered a bunch of data
that's allowed me to tune a high end simulation program (Dynomation) to
permit accurate power predictions and custom cam designs that match a
specific engine. I'd be happy to help in any way I can.
Dan Jones