What are you using for refrigerant? Have you tried Freeze 12?
What do you think of it?
I think r12 is absolutely the best for the Pantera. The R134a doesn't work that well.
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The BIG problem with the substitutes is once you go that route, you will have a HELL of a time finding a shop that will work on it.
The Freeze12 or whatever will contaminate their r12 machines, and their r134 machines. Sure, you can lie to them about what is in your system. But you'll be risking quite the repair job if they figure out why their recovery unit filters go bad, why the next customer complains about his sytem, or whatever. I doubt many shops have a corral of different machines dedicated to all the various substitutes someone may bring in.
And since most all of them have some r134 or another freon in them, the shop can't legally just vent them out to the atmosphere and start over.
I just got six 14oz cans from eBay, to my door. for $19.50 each. Last summer I paid a shop $45 a pound when I had my system repaired.
R12 for me, forever.
Larry
The Freeze12 or whatever will contaminate their r12 machines, and their r134 machines. Sure, you can lie to them about what is in your system. But you'll be risking quite the repair job if they figure out why their recovery unit filters go bad, why the next customer complains about his sytem, or whatever. I doubt many shops have a corral of different machines dedicated to all the various substitutes someone may bring in.
And since most all of them have some r134 or another freon in them, the shop can't legally just vent them out to the atmosphere and start over.
I just got six 14oz cans from eBay, to my door. for $19.50 each. Last summer I paid a shop $45 a pound when I had my system repaired.
R12 for me, forever.
Larry
Larry is correct. Most shops first use a device called an identifier, to see what is really in the system. It's not worth it to them to contaminate their R12 or R134a equipment. -Steve
sorry guys i have been in the HVAC business for 23 years. I never heard of dedicated equipment. we run r-22,11,12,134,410 ... thru our equipment into recovery machines and into cylinders.
I personally like the R-12 its colder and if memory serves me correctly it runs at a lower pressure. 134 you need to change the system components ..to do it right .. to get it to run colder.
My 2 cents
I personally like the R-12 its colder and if memory serves me correctly it runs at a lower pressure. 134 you need to change the system components ..to do it right .. to get it to run colder.
My 2 cents
R12 is by far the best. Some of the substitutes come very close. Freeze 12 and FridgC work good if you can find them. Enviro save works great, but it is flamable. I have succesfully converted to R134 and can get temps in the 30s. It takes a big modern condensor and large fan to make 134 work. I did a whole experiment with deck lid open and closed and trunk in and out. It was published in POCA monthly and on the email forum.
I want to try the Freeze12. I went to get some at the local napa and it has been removed from the shelves.
The story given to me was that it may require EPA approval. This needs to be determined. This is news to me since the info on it says it requires no US license.
Anyone know anything about this?
In the past if a situation like this happed it is as a result of a complaint by a competator to the Feds.
They only complain if it works well, and is an "unfair advantage".
Now I'm really hot for the stuff.
The story given to me was that it may require EPA approval. This needs to be determined. This is news to me since the info on it says it requires no US license.
Anyone know anything about this?
In the past if a situation like this happed it is as a result of a complaint by a competator to the Feds.
They only complain if it works well, and is an "unfair advantage".
Now I'm really hot for the stuff.
quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
I want to try the Freeze12. I went to get some at the local napa and it has been removed from the shelves.
The story given to me was that it may require EPA approval. This needs to be determined. This is news to me since the info on it says it requires no US license.
Anyone know anything about this?
In the past if a situation like this happed it is as a result of a complaint by a competator to the Feds.
They only complain if it works well, and is an "unfair advantage".
Now I'm really hot for the stuff.
Try some Red Tek. I have been using it in one of my vehicles and it works great. It is a R12 and R134 drop in. It gets just as cold as R12 and does it just as fast. Operating pressures are about the same as R-12 and much lower than R134. The cans use R134 fittings, but with a side tap can tool or adapter fittings there won't be any problem intalling it in a R12 system.
I am currently using R134 in my Pantera and it works quite well. I had Red Tek in it when I had the old York compressor and it worked very well, but went with R134 when I installed a rotary compressor just to try it.
There are some off the shelf additives for R134 that claim to drop the operating temperatures. I just installed one a few weeks ago and the outlet temperature has dropped several degrees.
Dont mean to bore you but.........In 1995 a sales restriction went into effect covering FRIGC FR-12, Free Zone, Hot Shot or R-414B, GHG-X4 or R-414A, Freeze 12 for this product sold in a container.
The following people can only buy refrigerant for use in a motor vehicle air conditioner R-12, R-406A, R-414A, R-414B, including "small cans" containing less than 20 pounds of R-12
technicians certified to service motor vehicle air-conditioners by aEPA-certified testing organization persons who buy refrigerant only for the purpose of resale to certified technicians, such persons must provide written
documentation to the seller stating that the refrigerant is only intended for resale.
This is what I found..
Ron
The following people can only buy refrigerant for use in a motor vehicle air conditioner R-12, R-406A, R-414A, R-414B, including "small cans" containing less than 20 pounds of R-12
technicians certified to service motor vehicle air-conditioners by aEPA-certified testing organization persons who buy refrigerant only for the purpose of resale to certified technicians, such persons must provide written
documentation to the seller stating that the refrigerant is only intended for resale.
This is what I found..
Ron
There must be a lot of parts stores breaking the law out where I live, because they have lots of Freeze 12 for sale to the public and there are no questions asked when you buy the stuff.
Yes they are ...and its that simple.
The autoparts stores where I live in NY you can only buy 134a. It doesnt fall under the restriction.
And in 2010 R-22 for your home AC system will be phased out also .. so if your installing new NOW ask for 410a equipment and you will be ahead of the game.
Ron
The autoparts stores where I live in NY you can only buy 134a. It doesnt fall under the restriction.
And in 2010 R-22 for your home AC system will be phased out also .. so if your installing new NOW ask for 410a equipment and you will be ahead of the game.
Ron
quote:And in 2010 R-22 for your home AC system will be phased out also
And it might pay for you to purchase a 30 pound tank of the R-22 to save getting charged the high markup your A/C service guy will charge you should you ever need your home A/C serviced.
Remember when R-12 was 99¢ a can?
Speaking for myself as the owner of a co that perfroms this service ... we dont increase our price because its in short supply or being phased out... we have our standard markup .. that keeps us in business and profitable ... it the manufacturers that play the supply and demand game.
What supports this is why is freon cheaper in the winter ??? because they have an abundance of it and no one is buying it ..so to keep sales up they sell it cheaper in larger quantities /?
R
What supports this is why is freon cheaper in the winter ??? because they have an abundance of it and no one is buying it ..so to keep sales up they sell it cheaper in larger quantities /?
R
quote:And it might pay for you to purchase a 30 pound tank of the R-22 to save getting charged the high markup your A/C service guy will charge you should you ever need your home A/C serviced.
Remember when R-12 was 99¢ a can?
I can remember K-Mart having R12 on sale for 50 cents a can!!! And I bought some for my 69 fairlane.