A quick run at the drags

I bet you were a crowd favorite! Gotta watch that track stuff. You may find a weak link or a part that needs inproving.... See.. then it's on. Just kidding... I can hear the dragstrip from here... Your doing better....than my zf.

That sound pretty good, what kind of mph?
One of these days soon I'm going to make a couple passes just to see what she will do.

Did you start off in first or second gear? I'm thinking second might be a better choice in my car.

Will 12.08 is not bad .... if you break into the 11's your going to eat up anything on the street today.

Ron

With a decent reaction time it would have easily been in the 11's.
I started in 1st gear. 114 mph through the traps.
Will

Your car is obviously not stock. What's been done to it to fly as well as you did at the track ? ? ? ?

351C .030 over (393CI now), 10.8:1 comp, hyd roller cam, 218 CHI heads (out of the box) and matching intake, 750 Speed Demon.

I looked at my slip gain. I had a .195 r/t on my 12.08 run.

Will,

Great run! The trap speed indicates that there is quite a bit left in the car.
BTW: Reaction time doesn't effect the e.t. at all. The timers start the instant your front wheel rolls far enough for the light beams to make contact with each other.


Ron

With that trap MPH .. did you get into 5 th gear ?

Ron

Very Cool, Tell me more about your cam and who, how does it idle, Have you had it on a dyno, I'm in the middle of collecting parts, would like to continue to smoke the new car's coming out, modified or not.


Mark

He should have been 3rd gear and just peaking his rpm at 6350 RPM.

Mike

Thats probably why the MPH are low .. with a Pantera ratio's ... you dont make it to your top gear to get MPH .. but the 1/4 mile time I think was good for a street car.

Ron

On my first run, I held onto it in 3rd and the rev limiter kicked in at 6600. Trap speed was 111 (12.3)
The second run, I barely got into fourth for a short time.
Hope the dyno sheet comes clear.
I thought the time started when the light turned green. But after talking to my neighbour, he said it started when I crossed the line.
Ron, what can I do for a better ET with that trap speed?
Will

That chassis dyno is in street trim. Notice tha air cleaner cost me 13 rwhp?
Without tailpipes I'm at 450 rwhp. This should be at the wheels after I install the 180's this winter.
Would be nice to get into the 11's for bragging rights....
Will

I'll post my cam specs after I get back tonight. Will

I would shift some where between 5300 and 5800 RPM where the dyno sheet appears to be making max HP at 5800.
Torque seems to be leveled off at 375 to 400 all the way thru.

I would try next time shifting at 5500 and see what you do. its going to sound like your short shifting but you should get a better 1/4 ET.

Oh no more sleeping at the light .. those new mustnag guys are practicing . LOL

ROn

Ron

quote:

I would shift some where between 5300 and 5800 RPM where the dyno sheet appears to be making max HP at 5800.
Torque seems to be leveled off at 375 to 400 all the way thru.

I think you're right Ron. I was shifting at ~6300. Probably a little too high.
Will

...once you hit your 'Peak' Horsepower, You are NO longer accelerating!! The time you take raising the RPM, is Wasted Time! You must Shift to a Higher Gear at Your HorsePower Peak; or is it when you obtain Peak Torque!? The only time you go over maximum is when your in high gear; and you have no more gears left. Running FIRST gear to maximum rpm is Not neccesary, first is Just 'to get you going' from a dead stop, You want to get up into the higher gears as quickly as possible! When I would use First gear as a Start, I would 'pop' the clutch, jump the Machine forward, and immediately Grab Second. Starting off from a dead stop, 'Feathering' SECOND Gear, also Works!! It 'may' leave you a slight distance behind the compitition, BUT puts you, Allways ahead by ONE Gearchange ALL the way down the track. I.E. Your shifting into THIRD as He/she's Shifting into SECOND. I have won many drags using this technique. The fact is; My Pontiac 400 Trans-Am (Highly Modified) was 'Undefeated' for Decades (Zero to 100 MPH in 5.0 Seconds flat)! One More thing some people may not know; concerning the 'Christmas Tree'. You DO NOT take off on the 'GREEN' Light, You Take off on the LAST YELLOW light. By the TIME the frontend of your Machine has 'jumped up' and started to move forward to 'Break' the Lights; the GREEN light will have come ON! If you wait for the Green you will be left in the dust everytime. Last: Never worry or even look at your compitition, at the Line! Let Him/Her look at You! You will be driving Your own race and concentrating on the Tree of lights. Anyway, that is what I have Practiced and learned in almost 40 years of Blowing anything that ever rolled, 'Into the Weeds'! Take it for what it's worth, and keep Your Revs Up!...

Hmmm. 2nd gear start? Has anyone else tried this in their Pantera?
Will

Not to get controversial here .. if you start out in second gear .. by the time the rpm's catch up to make horsepower to thrust the Pantera down the track .. the guy next to you will be in 3rd gear almost at the finsh line.

Start out in first, thats where you need torque .. you made torque and Hp at 5800 shift out of 1st and then try 5500 thru the rest of the gears I''ll bet you end up in 4th and going into 5th.

low 11's.

The Pantera is geared awful damn low. On top of that, most owners are running rear tires less than 27" OD, like the originals, which makes the gearing even lower. The dog-leg shift from first to second can't be done quickly, at least not as quickly as the straight-pull shift from second to third.

I've never drag raced 6018. But I do take off from second every once in a while. It pulls second very hard, and I've just got the stock 264 bhp motor.

I truly think Marlin's suggestion has merrit and is at least worth a try, a back to back comparison.

cowboy from hell

What are CHI heads? Are they Ford heads or aftermarket heads?

CHI = Cylinder Head Innovations

they're from

Very good, very popular line of aftermarket street heads for the Cleveland. The Cleveland was a more popular performance motor in the land of Oz than it was here in the states.

Their web site: http://www.chiheads.com/

5 of the top 6 engines in the last Engine Masters Challenge were CHI equipped Clevelands

> once you hit your 'Peak' Horsepower, You are NO longer accelerating!!

Yes you are (unless you've hit terminal velocity).

> The time you take raising the RPM, is Wasted Time!

No it's not.

> You must Shift to a Higher Gear at Your HorsePower Peak; or is it when
> you obtain Peak Torque!?

Neither. You want to shift where you maximize the area under the
horsepower curve between shifts. That yields maximum average rear
wheel torque which, in turn, yields maximum average acceleration.
It's typical for a drag racer to shift about 400 to 500 RPM above
horsepower peak though the ideal shift point is a function of gear
spacing and also the time it takes to shift. If you had a 2 speed
powerglide with wide gear spacing, you'd need to shift at more RPM
above the peak. A close ratio 7 speed gearbox (like they use in
F1) would shift closer to peak. An ideal CVT would hold at peak
RPM.

Dan Jones

Sounds like a mid 11's car. Very nice for a "first time" out with it.

You did run without the air cleaner didn't you?
That is typically worth one to two tenths right there.

Don't worry about the trap speeds.

Don't forget to turn off the stereo and the A/C next time.

Good job. It's not as easy as it would seem.

"

quote:

You did run without the air cleaner didn't you?

"

No. I should have though. I wanted to run it in full street trim.

"It's typical for a drag racer to shift about 400 to 500 RPM above
horsepower peak though "

Dan, So shifting at 6300 when my peak is at 5800 was the thing to do?

Will

What is more important then that is the rpm drop going into the next gear.

If your gear ratios were such that if you ran it to say 5500rpm and when you shifted to the next gear and it was say 3500 rpm and that is under your torque peak, that isn't good, and that is more important.

Therefore you have to move up your shift point so that you are hitting at least the beginning of the torque peak when you upshift.

With a big port cleveland that is around 4200rpm that you don't want to drop below. 4500 would be even better. Below that the engine is very flat.

Where the CHI heads put the torque curve I'm sure is a little different and you might not notice it that much but the scenario is the same.

When you hit the torque right the engine will rev faster to the red line you have set, otherwise it tends to bog down and sometimes even stall on you.

I think the 6300 is around the right place.

> Dan, So shifting at 6300 when my peak is at 5800 was the thing to do?

You should be in the ballpark. Next time, try 100 RPM higher, then 100
RPM lower.

Dan Jones

If you can hit your shift points within 100 rpm every time you're a better driver than I am. Or you're not interested in watching where you're going.

Believe me when I tell you I have the utmost respect for Dan, and consider him one of, if not the most informed person on this forum. What I learned about shifting is simple. If you are pressed back in the seat when you shift, it is because you were already falling forward, ie: reduced G force. If your going to miss time a shift, your better off shifting too soon rather than too late. You want to stay pinned to the seat!