Wanted insight on peoples thoughts on the pros and cons of one versus the other....
Dave
Original Post
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Dave, I hope this means you have changed your mind about selling??? Anyway I use a Holley Mechanial pump with no problems since the rebuild. My only experience with electric pumps has been on my dad's 69 MGB with SU pumps and they have been a constant pain. I am just getting started on the restoration of it and will be looking for an aftermarket pump. I am also thinking about dropping a 289 in there.
By the way, did anyone mention to you that when you took over as President of Southeast
Panteras it was a lifetime appointment? You may as well keep the car!
regards,
Gary
#06984
By the way, did anyone mention to you that when you took over as President of Southeast
Panteras it was a lifetime appointment? You may as well keep the car!
regards,
Gary
#06984
Always the best Gary..... I ran into low pressure and pulled off the mechanical Holly to take a look and was taken back. Upon opening it up one of the one way valves had displaced and was loose. It was strange to see such crudness in construction from Holley and suspicious as to why failure hadn't occured earlier. Made me start to think if a electrical pump might be just better off due to better construction. Or perhaps a different manufacturer. Hope all is well and I look forward to hearing other peoples stories and thoughts on fuel pumps.
Dave
Dave
Ive had good luck with both mechanical and electrical pumps.I use the Holley red electrics with seperate regulators on a couple of my cars,and whenever i run a mechanical i use Carter Super pumps without a regulator.Ive found the Carters to be a much better built pump than the Holley mechanicals.
Over the years, I've found electric fuel pumps to be about like MSDs- fine when they work, on the tow truck when they don't. Either keep your dependable mechanical on there as a backup, carry a second electric as with the MSDs, or be sure your cell phone is charged & your 3-A towing card is current....Crude mechanicals are a function of price. Winston Cup cars all use mechanicals that cost upwards of $250 ea, and they are works of art.
quote:
Originally posted by grngt5:
Ive had good luck with both mechanical and electrical pumps.I use the Holley red electrics with seperate regulators on a couple of my cars,and whenever i run a mechanical i use Carter Super pumps without a regulator.Ive found the Carters to be a much better built pump than the Holley mechanicals.
Does Carter make a performance fuel pump? The only one I found for the Cleveland was the 6882 about 70 gpm at 6 - 7 psi... The Holley was around 110 gpm at same pressure and I was hoping for the same.
Dave
Strange, I put a new one on, ran it for 10 minutes tops and found the same problem with the check valve. Thinking it was a one time deal, put another Holley on. I'm beginning to see a trend..... Hope this one is better!
quote:
Originally posted by ufmbagrad:
Always the best Gary..... I ran into low pressure and pulled off the mechanical Holly to take a look and was taken back. Upon opening it up one of the one way valves had displaced and was loose. It was strange to see such crudness in construction from Holley and suspicious as to why failure hadn't occured earlier. Made me start to think if a electrical pump might be just better off due to better construction. Or perhaps a different manufacturer. Hope all is well and I look forward to hearing other peoples stories and thoughts on fuel pumps.
Dave
As it turns out, the way I ran my Carter & Holley electrics years ago may have something to do with their poor wear-out rate for me. I had added an auxilliary fuel tank in one do-everything car, as I could NOT gas up on Sunday and have it last the whole week commuting, which annoyed me. I used to let the main tank run dry until the engine died, then switch over to my aux tank, which took a few seconds. I now find that running a vane-type pump dry is VERY un-recommended! Backing this up, I've also lost a factory electric Z-28 fuel-injection pump to repeated instances of trying to stretch the mileage and having it run out (I carry a reserve tank). So the way you use your electric pumps is probably the key.
I just replaced my Carter fuel pump with a 'top of the line, the best one you have' from the local NAPA. I replaced it because when the key was turned on, but the engine was not started, it was making an annoying, worrying 'low grinding humming noise.' So the new Carter was $65.00, cheap I thought. It turned out to be exactly the same one that was on it all along.
When I replaced it, the old three rubber isolater washers were very hard and brittle, so I deduced they had been on there a long time. The new metal mounting bracket was thrown in the trash because the existing one was welded onto the chassis right below the tank, but inboard.
When the installation was complete, and I turned the ignition on but didn't start the engine, it still had a humming noise, but not as loud. I disassembled the old Carter fuel pump and it appeared to be in good working condition. There was a very minute amount of debris on the screen. My mechanic buddy wanted it for a 'fuel injector cleaner' and is still using it.
I would rather not have the mounting bracket welded onto the chassis, and would prefer to use the rubber washers they provided with the new pump to further isolate the noise. But when she's running, can't hear the fuel pump any more. I conclude I probably could have just changed the mounting rubber washers, but dependability and reliability are real important to me.
I have been reading alot on Panteras for years, but with new focus and concentration since 5/9/03, my Pantera's purchase date. I have a concern about the fact that this pump continues to keep running while the key is on, but the engine is off. There is a fire danger, and I've noticed minute amounts of evaporated fuel on the intake manifold. I am considering a fuel pressure cut-off (fully described in the Carter fuel pump installation brochure, and a Carter product as well) to stop the pump when the outlet line is fully pressurized. It's not a top priority now, but a future project. I don't turn the key on without starting the car unless I'm working on it and need to for some reason. And then, I'm very conscious of how long the key is 'On' while the motor is 'Off.'
So I'd recommend not listening to the stereo while the wife is in the grocery store, and the motor is off, to prevent fire potential.
As for mechanical fuel pumps, I had to change one of those out on a '71 Mustang convertible while I was a grad student. It was $18.00 and I liked that fact. It was also pretty easy to do. But the fact is, it went out on me in 1988, so after 16 years of service, presumably. Changing the electric fuel pump got some gasoline on my T-shirt, which burns a little, but it's good to know your own car well, and the fuel line inspection revealed more servicable life, but a project in a couple of years....
When I replaced it, the old three rubber isolater washers were very hard and brittle, so I deduced they had been on there a long time. The new metal mounting bracket was thrown in the trash because the existing one was welded onto the chassis right below the tank, but inboard.
When the installation was complete, and I turned the ignition on but didn't start the engine, it still had a humming noise, but not as loud. I disassembled the old Carter fuel pump and it appeared to be in good working condition. There was a very minute amount of debris on the screen. My mechanic buddy wanted it for a 'fuel injector cleaner' and is still using it.
I would rather not have the mounting bracket welded onto the chassis, and would prefer to use the rubber washers they provided with the new pump to further isolate the noise. But when she's running, can't hear the fuel pump any more. I conclude I probably could have just changed the mounting rubber washers, but dependability and reliability are real important to me.
I have been reading alot on Panteras for years, but with new focus and concentration since 5/9/03, my Pantera's purchase date. I have a concern about the fact that this pump continues to keep running while the key is on, but the engine is off. There is a fire danger, and I've noticed minute amounts of evaporated fuel on the intake manifold. I am considering a fuel pressure cut-off (fully described in the Carter fuel pump installation brochure, and a Carter product as well) to stop the pump when the outlet line is fully pressurized. It's not a top priority now, but a future project. I don't turn the key on without starting the car unless I'm working on it and need to for some reason. And then, I'm very conscious of how long the key is 'On' while the motor is 'Off.'
So I'd recommend not listening to the stereo while the wife is in the grocery store, and the motor is off, to prevent fire potential.
As for mechanical fuel pumps, I had to change one of those out on a '71 Mustang convertible while I was a grad student. It was $18.00 and I liked that fact. It was also pretty easy to do. But the fact is, it went out on me in 1988, so after 16 years of service, presumably. Changing the electric fuel pump got some gasoline on my T-shirt, which burns a little, but it's good to know your own car well, and the fuel line inspection revealed more servicable life, but a project in a couple of years....
Another thing I didn't do but should have, is to rig a recirculating line from the carb inlet back to the fuel tank. Along with the before-mentioned.pump problems, is the fact that it does your electric pump no good to be running full bore against a closed float needle. Better it should vent excess pressure back to the tank as in all fuel-injection systems. This presents a problem with Panteras, as modifications to the tank for extra fittings are difficult. I suggest instead, to add a return fitting to the fill spout, as that CAN be removed with the engine in place. In the same vein, SCCA and other competition groups now specify all fuel filters be on the suction side of all pumps but especially cars with electric pumps.Then, if the filter body cracks or breaks, its not under pressure. I'm reminded of an incident with a Porsche at a local autocross, that cracked a fuel filter and caught on fire during a run. It was apparently wired like yours and-re-ignited 3 times while the oblivious owner tried to re-start it; someone finally opened the hood & ripped the battery cable off, killing the engine fire for good. Scary stuff- he hadn't noticed he was on fire!
Just installed a "Mr Gasket" High Volume fuel pump which has fittings for braided fuel lines. We also used a K&N fuel filter leading to fuel regulator set for 7 lbs which feeds a Holly HP 750. This works great.
Work preformed by Bench Tech Racing Specialists .. a non profit Pantera work group with shop teacher HDJammer.
Work preformed by Bench Tech Racing Specialists .. a non profit Pantera work group with shop teacher HDJammer.
RVS 1972:
Does your Regulator turn Off the Fuel Pump when the Ingnition Switch is On, but the engine is Off, after it reaches 7 psi on the output side?
I'm concerned about FIRE running an electric fuel pump Without a Regulator!
Does your Regulator turn Off the Fuel Pump when the Ingnition Switch is On, but the engine is Off, after it reaches 7 psi on the output side?
I'm concerned about FIRE running an electric fuel pump Without a Regulator!
fuel pump also depend on how your useing the car. if itsmainly street use sick to a mecanical pump, pure race or drive to local scca race and drive home use both. just put a toggle switch on the electric pump and turn it on when you want or need it like in racing situation. when your doing street driving turn off the elec pump and run off the mecanicl pump. if your running a strait elec pump besure to cary a small hammer to tap the elec pump, sometimes it will get it going againg for an emergency situation.
We are just using the high volume mechanical "Mr Gasket" fuel pump - no need for an electric fuel pump.
The fuel regulator keeps the fuel pressure feeding the carburator constant. Before as you would run up the RPMs the fuel presure would blow through the internal workings of my carburator which would cause it to run rich (see Bench Tech Racing Specialist's Guru..HDJammer for more on the internal workings). The "fuel regulator kit" which feeds both sides of the carburator comes mounted on a carburator plate which fits between the manifold and my Holly HP750. I am also using a Wilson 2" spacer to lift the carburator, regulator and fuel lines up away from all the heat that builds up between the intake manifold and the high valve covers. I am also using insulation tubes around the braided fuel lines to keep the fuel temperature as low as possible. I also have 180 degree headers which adds to the heat build up in my engine compartment . We made these modifications this month and what a difference!!
The fuel regulator keeps the fuel pressure feeding the carburator constant. Before as you would run up the RPMs the fuel presure would blow through the internal workings of my carburator which would cause it to run rich (see Bench Tech Racing Specialist's Guru..HDJammer for more on the internal workings). The "fuel regulator kit" which feeds both sides of the carburator comes mounted on a carburator plate which fits between the manifold and my Holly HP750. I am also using a Wilson 2" spacer to lift the carburator, regulator and fuel lines up away from all the heat that builds up between the intake manifold and the high valve covers. I am also using insulation tubes around the braided fuel lines to keep the fuel temperature as low as possible. I also have 180 degree headers which adds to the heat build up in my engine compartment . We made these modifications this month and what a difference!!
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Husker:
[B]Strange, I put a new one on, ran it for 10 minutes tops and found the same problem with the check valve. Thinking it was a one time deal, put another Holley on. I'm beginning to see a trend..... Hope this one is better!
I decided to approach Holley with the issue and I have to applaud their tech/cust service!.. Send it back they said and they would take a look... The same day they received it they call and said a new one is on its way! I know I was past their basic one year warranty but they didn't even hestitate. Feels pretty good to know that their are still manufacturers out there that stand behind their product no matter what.
Dave
[B]Strange, I put a new one on, ran it for 10 minutes tops and found the same problem with the check valve. Thinking it was a one time deal, put another Holley on. I'm beginning to see a trend..... Hope this one is better!
I decided to approach Holley with the issue and I have to applaud their tech/cust service!.. Send it back they said and they would take a look... The same day they received it they call and said a new one is on its way! I know I was past their basic one year warranty but they didn't even hestitate. Feels pretty good to know that their are still manufacturers out there that stand behind their product no matter what.
Dave
I am currently working on mounting an aeromotive belt driven pump. It is supposed to be able to pump more fuel than Exxon. It is a constant displacement pump so Fuel ressure increases in proportion with RPM like a stock pump. I got this one because I am running EFI and the block mount pumps couldnt cut it and the electric pumps capable of flowing what I need were prohibitively expensive. The pump has excellent construction as well. I will let everyone know how it works.