Normal engine life

My engine has never been rebuilt, and it still runs strong after more than 128,000 miles. Oil pressure is 67-69 psi (hot) at cruise, and 35 psi (hot) at idle, as verified with a mechanical oil pressure gauge.

John

The internals that wear the fastest are the valve guides and the rocker arm tips.

That is because of the scuffing action across the top of the valve that the rocker arm has.

Some engines will show noticeable oil consumption as a result at about 60,000 miles. Some less.



IF you install a set of roller rocker arms then the thing could go on forever seemingly without needing a rebuild.

Difficult to say if it's better for mileage to use the original cast iron piston rings or chrome molly ones?

It's usually the block wall that shows the wear from the friction though.

Full synthetics will reduce that wear if used after break in.



My engine builder will tell you that the rings are seated within 5 minutes of the initial start up.

I did have a 427 Ford with chrome molly rings that ran like crap for a lot more than 5 minutes after start up. We were looking at what was wrong with it internally and all it was, was the rings needing seating.

Top and bottom were molly. That might have been a mistake AND it was running with open breathers.



The bottom ring HAS TO HAVE 12 in-mg of vacuum in the crankcase to seat right. You don't get that with open breathes. In fact there may be a + pressure wise which is just not good.

flat tappet vintage engines Need their proper correct oil to live a long life

the latest & greatest rendition of the best selling name brands are not It

quote:

Originally posted by 4V & Proud:
flat tappet vintage engines Need their proper correct oil to live a long life

the latest & greatest rendition of the best selling name brands are not It

Yup. Make sure you have plenty of ZDDP in the oil. The camshaft and lifters need this stuff to last. It's much better to have too much than not enough.

There are two big reasons that engines are now running roller lifters. One was to reduce internal friction and give manufacturers a tenth on a mile per gallon better fleet average but by far the biggest reason was that ZDDP winds up fouling the catalitic converters. They are REQUIRED to last a minimum of 100,000 miles. The ZDDP won't allow that.

thanks for the replies, is STP much the same as ZDDP?
which as far as I know isn't available in England.

ZDDP is sold as an engine break in additive by most of the hot rod shops. I happen to buy mine from Summit Racing on line. I buy the Comp Cams break in additive. It costs about $12 per bottle and I use one bottle with every oil change. Good piece of mind.

Respectfully and humbly,

I would suggest interested readers please carefully read the information at the following link before you dump ZDDP additives in your oil: Motor Oil Wear Protection

For the average 351C (excepting those specifically machined to utilize 0W or 5W oil) I recommend Valvoline VR1 (10W30, 10W40 or 20W50), conventional or synthetic, using no additives. After you read the link I believe you'll understand why.

Mobil1 does pretty well too right across the board.

I get it in Costco for $30 a case. Can't beat that?

I found that the STP in the BLUE plastic container contains a ZDDP additive for your oil.

One container does 5-6 quarts.

You have to check the ZDDP contents in the Mobil1. It does vary even from weight to weight.

The only issue I have with the link and the results is it sounds like a commercial for Prolong?

Peter, IMHO the fastest wearing assembly in the 351-C engine is the OEM timing chain. This is because of the weight of the huge valves and the rpm capability of the 4V engine. With the link-chains you were lucky to get 20,000 miles before the thing was so worn, the cam would jump timing. And both sprockets usually were gone along with the chain. A double-row roller chain NOT made in India or China is a good idea, extends assembly life by maybe 2X and with the new sprockets needed for this different kind of chain, you usually have 3-9 different cam timing slots. As-stock starting in late '72, Ford retarded the cam 4 degrees for smog purposes by retarding the crank sprocket keyway. There are other soft spots in the Cleveland engine design (like the distributor drive gear roll-pin and the stock oil pump driveshaft), but the cam chain is the first place I look. If you're lucky, all this may have been changed by a previous owner.

quote:

Originally posted by George P:
Respectfully and humbly,

I would suggest interested readers please carefully read the information at the following link before you dump ZDDP additives in your oil: Motor Oil Wear Protection

For the average 351C (excepting those specifically machined to utilize 0W or 5W oil) I recommend Valvoline VR1 (10W30, 10W40 or 20W50), conventional or synthetic, using no additives. After you read the link I believe you'll understand why.

Equally respectfully George. The link you provide threw up a few red flags for me.

First of all, the guy uses a few logical fallacies: Argument from authority and Proof by verbosity.

Statements like "I’m a working Professional Degreed Mechanical Engineer, as well as a U.S. Patent holder. Mechanical Design Engineering is what I do for a living. A Mechanical Engineer is clearly the most qualified Engineer to test motor oil"
Oozes of "You must believe me because I am smarter than you" mentality, without proving he is really an expert in anything.

And then the next statement is down right condescending as well as exposing his laziness / unwillingness / incapacity to provide tabular data that actually makes a complex idea easier to understand, not harder: "And the intended audience is not other Engineers. There are no formulas, equations, charts or graphs. The intended audience is Automotive Enthusiasts, Gearheads, Hotrodders, Racers and Engine builders. So, it is written in normal everyday spoken language, rather than overly technical jargon. That way, it will be the easiest to follow and understand by the widest possible audience."

His methods are anything but transparent. No photographs or diagrams of the test rig? I'm not convinced. Some of us are enthusiasts as well as engineers, and as an engineer, I understand the value of making a technical point by simple text supported by graphical evidence of the process.

His conclusion that viscosity and zinc are not important will be widely refuted by the people selling and guaranteeing camshafts. It is well known that zinc is a great EP additive, but poisons catalytic convertors, so that is the reason it has been phased out. That, and the fact that most modern valve trains are roller, so EP additives that protect the cam lobes are less important. If you have a flat tappet valve train, you need protection.

Now on to your statement that 0W or 5W oils are not recommended. Please don't confuse the low temperature performance (the "W" number) with operating temperature performance (the second number). As long as the operating temperature number is what you need, the "W" number merely states that you can be protected in low temperature start up conditions. It is a good thing! A wide range in viscosity grade numbers means the oil has a high viscosity index. . That means it is more stable in temperature related viscosity. Again, a good thing, as long as this high index is not not made with polymer viscosity modifiers that can shear down over time.

But don't take it from me!

Thats the information I should know about.
As said my engine isn't the original one and an unknown quantity, when I do get the old girl on the road, I would like to get some travelling in before removing the engine to fit a double chain / oil pump drive mod etc, I also would like to secure the bolts in the gearbox with locking wire, but would like to do this myself, is there a write up for doing this Job. But thank you for the information, Peter.

quote:

I also would like to secure the bolts in the gearbox with locking wire, but would like to do this myself, is there a write up for doing this Job.

I am certainly not trying to steer you away from a DIY job, but I had an expert with me when we wired my Ring Gear, and I am glad I did.

This is more of a 3 banana job - here's the items I noticed:

Removal of the allen screws off the differential carrier (we needed a chisel to break a few loose)

Disassembly and reassembly of the clutch packs and the spider gears - I guess we stacked them in a very nice pile, but there were sure a LOT of parts there, and it would be VERY easy to get them out of order...

The actual Safety Wiring process - You want your tying to be very neat and very tight. If you don't have a lot of experience with Safety Wiring... your wiring may not look so nice

Sealing up the bottom of the ZF - you need to do a very good cleaning and sealer / gasket install - and there are a LOT of shims and wave washers that you need to keep in the right order / locations.

I am not saying that safety wiring a ZF can't be done by a "first-timer", but it needs to be done in a very meticulous order, and all the parts have to go back exactly in the same order they came out.

I was very grateful I had someone who did the heavy lifting for me when we safety wired my ZF. I was happy to be the guy who scrubbed the parts, cleaned and painted thing as needed, and tried to help by doing the grunt work.

I was able to get a lot of information on the process by calling RBT Transmissions (when I ordered the gasket set). but it was really a task that took some skills.

Rocky

quote:

Originally posted by Rocky:

quote:

I also would like to secure the bolts in the gearbox with locking wire, but would like to do this myself, is there a write up for doing this Job.

I am certainly not trying to steer you away from a DIY job, but I had an expert with me when we wired my Ring Gear, and I am glad I did.

This is more of a 3 banana job - here's the items I noticed:

Removal of the allen screws off the differential carrier (we needed a chisel to break a few loose)

Disassembly and reassembly of the clutch packs and the spider gears - I guess we stacked them in a very nice pile, but there were sure a LOT of parts there, and it would be VERY easy to get them out of order...

The actual Safety Wiring process - You want your tying to be very neat and very tight. If you don't have a lot of experience with Safety Wiring... your wiring may not look so nice

Sealing up the bottom of the ZF - you need to do a very good cleaning and sealer / gasket install - and there are a LOT of shims and wave washers that you need to keep in the right order / locations.

I am not saying that safety wiring a ZF can't be done by a "first-timer", but it needs to be done in a very meticulous order, and all the parts have to go back exactly in the same order they came out.

I was very grateful I had someone who did the heavy lifting for me when we safety wired my ZF. I was happy to be the guy who scrubbed the parts, cleaned and painted thing as needed, and tried to help by doing the grunt work.

I was able to get a lot of information on the process by calling RBT Transmissions (when I ordered the gasket set). but it was really a task that took some skills.

Rocky

Well Rocky I do take your point, without experience there cannot be much expertise. I know that it would be a surprise to some folk that Pantera owners such as myself, do have budget limits, the cost to have the unit shipped over to an expert in the US is just out of the question, so its a job I must tackle as a DIY one.

Grateful for your info though its all MUST know stuff for a potential rebuilder, thanks for your reply Peter.

Peter -

I'm not saying it can't be done - we did it without a special "certified" ZF guy. Wade's quote was "I've rebuilt VW Transaxles before - how hard can this be?"

I am saying my friend has a lot of experience, and really knows what he is doing around cars.

I am also saying that (in my opinion) - every shim, washer, and part location needs to be organized, and reassembled exactly as it comes out. And those shims start to fall out of the case as soon as you take the two long bolts that hold the bottom cover on.

There may likely be people near you that can help.

Good Luck with it - I am sure if you search, you can find a lot of resources.

You also want to have all the parts on hand first (and get some of the aluminum wave washers as spares) - I had a bunch of them that cracked or were broken.

Rocky