Stroker kit

Hooo boy! I looked into this awhile back and assembling the parts for a home-built stroker is tricky. Using a kit is smart since extensive machining of everything is necessary. A stroker Cleveland is ragged-edge at 406 inches. Going out to 454 is possible but 427 is much easier and cheaper & you'll likely never notice the difference. With 427 or 454, you'll likely be using a 351W block instead of your Cleveland. First, the Windsor is taller, allowing for slightly longer con-rods, which lessens the side-thrust on the cylinder walls with a big-arm crank. Windsor cylinder walls at 0.030 overbore are thicker than fragile 351C cylinder walls are unbored, so the ring seal in the Windsor will last longer. Second, the Windsor block is wider and stronger at the pan rail, lessening the amount of rail and counterweights that need to be cut away (this last causes rebalencing problems.) You can easily adapt good closed chamber Cleveland heads to the Windsor block, making what used to be called a "Street Boss" in the '80s. You'll need a special wider intake manifold to fit the conglomerate engine, and there may be some problems with front block bracktry and GTS or big-bore headers hitting the rear coil-overs & maybe the gas tank shield, forcing some cut-and-weld adaptions. I wouldn't even consider using any part of stock 'bunch-of-banannas' exhausts.Once together, the 4V heads really come alive on a big-inch engine but this is NOT an easy adaption unless you are experienced in the art & have lots of tools. Most Pantera vendors (including the owners of this Forum) sell kits and even do these adaptions to your car on a regular basis, for locals and out-of-towners, costing you more money but saving untold troubles & heartache if things don't go exactly as planned in your garage.

Thks.for the sound advice Jack. But I need to stay with a Cleveland blk.only because I have the IDA Webers etc.and as u point out,I would need a different intake manifold going the Windsor route. I would have gladly sacrificed the C-blk. for the fine reasons u mentioned if it werent for this. And a inlet for the Webers going the Windsor route is not available here.
If I went for a 392 / 383 or thereabouts?
Plus as little a overbore as possible?
What sort of BHP can I expect if I stayed with the std. 351 crank,if in good nick,(I will get a report from the eng.shop soon.)running with the above cam and flattops with -+ the 11.1 compr. plus Webers and Hall's 180 degree exh.? Surely a figure of 80 bhp. per litre could be expected, giving -+ 464 bhp.? And if one ran into trouble with the thin-walls could one not re-sleeve and then bore to std.?
Thank u kindly once again for your much appreciated advice.
Is there someone out there that has any similar experience ? Best regards tai.

Tai- I have to amend my post. You likely can find an Australian Cleveland block. Some late-70s to-early '80s Euro-Panteras had them.There are several varieties, but what you want is the true heavy-duty Aussie block with siamesed cylinder walls.These blocks are race quality and will take monstrous overbores- some will safely go more than 4.060". This block bored 4.060" with a 4.125" stroke will yield 427.22 cubic inches. To go bigger, you'll need a billet crank of around 4-1/2" stroke, with a bore of 4.060. That combo gives 466 cubic inches. Jack Roush did such an engine for a Cobra years ago. There is NO other Cleveland-type block that can take even an 060" overbore. In the early '70s, drag racers used to furnace-braze sleeves in std blocks to get big displacement, but the furnace brazing is tricky and even when successful, the high heat used results in having to completely re-machine every surface in the engine including the lifter bores.You're left with a big-inch block that has weak main bearing supports due to the excessive sculpturing Ford did in casting the Cleveland. I'd look for a heavy-duty Aussie, sonic-test it for cylinder wall thickness, and go from there.

Once again, thks. Jack for informative & prompt reply. I think you have cleared up most,or some of the confusion in my mind re. this subject. Every time in the past discussing this topic the 'Aussie' block comes up. But,I remember you or perhaps Mark,last time ending up with the fact that these specially cast, race-blocks were as hard to find as the proverbial. -Is this the block u are refering to above? I would think not,since everyone has said the likleyhood of finding one of these, specially cast;'racer-special'blks. sounds like zip. So,are u then perhaps refering to the many Aussie blks.that populate South Africa / Europe originating out of the many Aussie Falcons / Fairlanes etc? I had always heard in Europe, long ago that De Tomaso was suppied from these sources when the USA 351C's were fazed- out in the states in the early 70's.We were told that the aussies were recasting these blks.using more metal in various places, hence were heavier and stronger, & also to be used in numerous truck applications. So one might then presume that all Pantera's after the 1974 USA 'shut-down' were supplied from this source? Or do u think these only went to non-USA countries?
This would account for the fact that NO one I have spoken to here in SA have ever experienced or heard of any 'thin-walled' problems with over-boring the blks.here. Even in severe high horsepower usage. Interesting.
And now for the million dollar question Jack? How do I tell which my block is? -I will 'surf' the aussie electronic-ether and try and find out from their side. Many thks again Jack for your appreciated input. Any one else? Regards tai.

Tai, use the search feature on this site, enter "Aussie block", select the search tech advise section, and read the threads written by Dan Jones. -The answers to your questions are there.

Kelly

Tai,

SVO sells bocks everyday as well as Dart that have the same deck height as your Cleveland and can be safely overbored .170" or more.Here's a link to a recent ad by the guy I bought me NASCAR engine from. http://www.nmraracing.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20595

He is great to deal with and his parts are top notch,used NASCAR and ARCA stuff.
Good choice on the 180's What mufflers are you planning to use?I presonaly would suggest changing the collector to exit together out the rear AC condensor grill and NOT using the mufflers that Hall sells to go with his headers.Buy a ste of Magnaflow or similar "straight through",round mufflers and you will LOVE the sound!
Good luck!
Ron

Many thanks all,-espc. Kelley and Ron.
I have dropped off both my blocks to be tested and will report back if any interesting'things'come up. Which i am sure they will.
RON: Yes, you are proberly right, the Hall 180 system mufflers(Side-exit) are a bit queit, but then again it allows the sound of the howling Webers to be enjoyed a bit more perhaps. I ran them like that all last season, but will make up or buy some more 'straight thru' end-cans for Track Days and enjoy the sound & report back if bhp is lost or gained.( was there any other drawback re. the Hall mufflers other than sound that you've noticed ?- the inside, swirledor coiled and perforated inner baffle looks quite trick, but might be obstructive. While on the Dyno soon I will do a with and without run.
RON, did I not E-mail u 3 x pics of my GRP.4 Replica a while back? You can see the Hall mufflers exiting out the side rather than your suggested outlet.And u right, I could of avoided the hole-cutting excercise. Where were you when I was brandishing the Tin-Snips? - but again the view u gain thru the back of the open A/C grilled-outlet of all the bussiness inside there.....oooooooooooooohhhh I dont know.
Thks. again all involved. Regards tai.