Track Boss Cleveland block update

What was the final weight of the block? Looks great!

Looking good. Want one for Christmas.
That's a Fordnumber on the casting, isn't it? What's the story behind that?

Aluminum blocks are usually around 100 pounds with the liners in.

Iron block is about 170.

Pond did the same thing with the aluminum 427 blocks and cast in a Ford casting number.

Works for me. Let the unknowledgeable go guessing?


The block is a beauty. I want one...or two?

Ford data shows 165# for the iron block, Tim has a scale pic showing closer to 160#

I'm gonna guess the Track Boss alloy block will tip close to 115 maybe 120# ready to assemble, Tim has added a good amount of material that comparable blocks don't have & that's a good thing

then again we don't really how this new alloy compares?

It depends on which iron block you are talking about. Stock D2AE-CA casting is lighter than the "Australian" block which has solid oil pan rails and thicker bulkheads for racing.

This new aluminum block is beautiful but you won't know the exact weight until they finish it with the pressed in iron bore liners and depends on what they use for the main caps.

I would presume that will be the big steel billet "splayed bolt" caps which are pretty hefty on their own not to mention the main cap bolts.

Yes, it could wind up being 125 pounds or so.

So you are going to save around 50 pounds with an aluminum block. I forget on the heads now? Another 50?



I think I remember the iron heads are 55 each and the two aluminum heads are 50 for the pair.

Then if you go to an aluminum flywheel you save another 20 there.

You really need a magnesium intake manifold to to help out but I've never seen one for a Cleveland recently. Not yet. Just the old Doug Nash split manifold which is a very rare item itself.

That manifold won't mount up to the new aluminum heads. The bottom of the intake ports would be uncovered.



The DT weber manifold is aluminum. It's possible a couple of mag ones were cast up but I never heard of one from any source reported.

So overall in a Pantera you are lowering the total weight but from the wrong place. The rear and if you go that far then you need to do a lot of work on the doors, deck lids, etc, to get it down further.

Ironically, when you build a race car, you wind up adding weight to the car because of the bigger wheels, tires, brakes and roll cages.

An aluminum block is a nice place to start though.

Oh, don't forget about the titanium connecting rods now too? I think everyone is using the Chevy ones?


A 289 with iron heads and aluminum intake is 450#, +/-.

An iron block C with aluminum heads and intake is a little more. 475? 400+/- with the aluminum block.

The price per pound goes way up for weight savings


In any case, this new aluminum block is too pretty to put in the car and conceal it?

The 351C block project has been a major expense. First for Tod Buttermore, and now for Tim Meyer.

I hope you all will support Tim in his financial commitment. As Pantera owners and enthusiasts we owe ourselves and future owners this resource.

A Tim Meyer aluminum 351C block combined with a pair of Scott Cook alloy 351C heads and a Scott Cook intake manifold would be such a cool modern rendition of a 351C that saves 200 pounds and makes more horsepower ... paint it Ford blue and nobody will know the difference. I hope we'll begin to see engine builds going in this direction.

there will be a cast iron-ish block coming along soon if all goes as planned, as I understand, for those that can carry the weight

Yes the price of going light is fairly steep but it's not just about weight, the Track Boss block does not suffer the crippling maladies that the factory production & even many the XE blocks are plagued with

George what's the chance of getting Scott Cook to open a direct dialog here?

Hey 4V

Scott is my Cleveland brother. Although we haven't talked in ages, I'm not aware of any problems between us.

He's more than welcome to chime-in here any time at all. If there's a problem I'll do my best to resolve it. Lord knows, if I've offended anyone I'll make it right if they'll just let me know about it.

Tim Meyer and I have bumped heads more than once ... but look at who just posted up above!

Price has always been the big issue in getting Scott's products over here. The US/Australian exchange rate, AND the price for shipping goods from Australia to North America, are both topics out of my league. Contact your senator. Or the Rothschilds.

Maybe Donald Trump can help?

I am not sure if I will be able to make it happen by next year or not, but running this block with the Scott Cook heads and intake is my end goal for my motor to have a "modern cleveland" painted Ford blue.
Not sure what shipping costs are but right now the American dollar has around a 25 cent advantage over the Aussie dollar. If I was benefiting from that here in Canada I would be ordering some right now.

Our price on the aluminum block will probably be in the $6000 range. When you figure Dart has 2 ford aluminum blocks at $6200, and they mass produce.
There are a few features that we have not shared yet, But as the president of R&D at the foundry said, this will be the strongest block on the market.

Scott Cook products, Scott and I have been planning on a pallet of his products coming over and we will be warehousing them for him.

quote:

Our price on the aluminum block will probably be in the $6000 range. When you figure Dart has 2 ford aluminum blocks at $6200, and they mass produce.

Thanks for the info, Tim.

I was predicting (and hoping) it would be less than or the same as the Bear, Genesis, Pond FE blocks. Maybe racers using Darts etc. are used to spending lots on blocks, but my concern would be that the block would out price the vintage/muscle car market. FE guys have had to pay a ton for parts and search garages for years looking for heads and side oiler blocks and still have a hard time paying for the new products. I am not sure if Cleveland guys are willing to step up dollar wise yet when blocks are still more readily available compared to a 427 FE.

Just my 2cents. Regardless if I can swing it I will be supporting this revival of the Cleveland and think that your team is doing an amazing job. You and your team have taken the torch and ran with it, I hope it burns bright!

George I wasn't thinking that but just if Scott's interested or has the time?

Tim's gotta be one busy guy & I gotta say I appreciate the direct communication!

how does that old saying go, Strong Craniums Make Great Clevelands

On the first post, forth photo down, the right side ( as viewing the picture) outside water cooling jacket wall looks EXTREMELY THIN!

casting flash. the thin looks to be extra material that needs to be removed from the frost plug hole, not sure why the other side looks to have so much

quote:

Originally posted by speedunlimited:
On the first post, forth photo down, the right side ( as viewing the picture) outside water cooling jacket wall looks EXTREMELY THIN!

Looks like where a welch plug goes?

quote:

Originally posted by Otis:

quote:

Our price on the aluminum block will probably be in the $6000 range. When you figure Dart has 2 ford aluminum blocks at $6200, and they mass produce.

Thanks for the info, Tim.

I was predicting (and hoping) it would be less than or the same as the Bear, Genesis, Pond FE blocks. Maybe racers using Darts etc. are used to spending lots on blocks, but my concern would be that the block would out price the vintage/muscle car market. FE guys have had to pay a ton for parts and search garages for years looking for heads and side oiler blocks and still have a hard time paying for the new products. I am not sure if Cleveland guys are willing to step up dollar wise yet when blocks are still more readily available compared to a 427 FE.

Just my 2cents. Regardless if I can swing it I will be supporting this revival of the Cleveland and think that your team is doing an amazing job. You and your team have taken the torch and ran with it, I hope it burns bright!

The Pond FE is listed at $5695 so they are both in the same neighborhood.

When you get to this point, you know it isn't going to be a cheap under taking.

All you can ask is that you get what you pay for. It's a beautiful block but now you need to match the heads to it.

For the implied performance level of this engine perhaps something like the Blue Thunder heads would be more appropriate?

Then you need to look at the induction AND the exhaust.

The end result is going to be a very serious engine BUT that's what everyone wanted, right?

No need to cut up the Pantera engine compartment to fit a Chevy or some other non-Cleveland based engine as a result? The Cleveland will out perform them at this level.

With a 750hp and 500ft-lb torque with a 5.7L, the issue is now how you are going to keep the ZF together for very long, then the stress cracks in the body sheet metal, then the medical bills for the doctors for your neck and back issues, then the lawyers to keep all the Super Models from throwing themselves at you? It never stops?

This is great news and I am really looking forward to this block coming on the market. I agree with George that a Tim Meyer aloy block with Scott Cook heads and intake all painted Ford Blue would be fantastic, that is what I am aiming for eventually.
With respect to Scott Cook, I visited him at Christmas time in Australia, he lives just down the road from my mum! I saw many of his moulds, his castings, heads, some prototypes of different things etc. He was a really friendly and great guy taking hours to show me his stuff. I ended up fitting one of his dual plane intakes into my luggage on the flight home, it's a nice looking piece! Can't wait to paint it Blue, get it onto the engine and get the old Eelbrock off.
Cheers, Tim.

quote:

Originally posted by TMeyer: ... Scott Cook products, Scott and I have been planning on a pallet of his products coming over and we will be warehousing them for him.

I'm still kicking myself for missing the pair that George had his mitts on, the ones that have the 4V port opening I forget who has them now...

I wonder if that 4V port opening mod would help tip the sales especially on this side of the pond?

I'll hit the Buy It Now tab if I can get them fitted with Ti intakes & SS exhaust valves

maybe with a T&D rocker package too

quote:

Originally posted by 4V & Proud:

... the ones that have the 4V port opening ...

They didn't have 4V port openings. They were standard items that I took to shows and promoted for Scott. A forum member on the east coast has them now. Jim Kuntz built the engine. He was exposed to the heads, which I think is cool.

They are nice heads. I agree the 4V port openings would help sell them to certain US customers, i.e. broaden the market. Getting the shipping prices down will help too. Scott knows.