Pantera #5825 - Help me out here....

well i am a serious buyer on the market, and that car looks like a fiberglass body kit car to me, and not a "real" Pantera.

its not something i would spend my cash on.

sorry, but its my honest opinion.

This car looks great in the photos. But take a look at this car in the flesh and you'll know why this car hasn't sold for the price they've been asking. I have personally seen this car. It has several serious stress cracks in the body. This car was probably totaled in a major accident and then pieced back together. My friend who saw the car with me said he thought the car might have been nearly severed into two. Of course for every seller there will eventually be a buyer...if the price is right. And that is why they have significantly lowered the price of this car.
David in Tujunga

Seems a bit odd that if the car had significant previous damage/repair that PI wopuldn't be totally up front about that. Suppose it's just another case of ebay descrips and pics don't tell the whole story??

K

I would like to point out that stress cracks in a Pantera DO NOT indicate it was in an accident and pieced back together.

Panteras crack.

The accusations made here were made without a shred of evidence.

cowboy from hell

quote:

Originally posted by Panterror:
Seems a bit odd that if the car had significant previous damage/repair that PI wopuldn't be totally up front about that. Suppose it's just another case of ebay descrips and pics don't tell the whole story??

K

If you read the descriptors on the PI website they do disclose that it has cracking. Its my understanding that this is common on flared cars. Look closely at the right front spoiler and flare. Big time crack. They do a good job also of breaking down the modifications and pricing. I think its a pretty good deal for what you get if you want a tribute car. When it was on Ebay a couple weeks ago the pricing got up to $29k. What people are willing to pay on Ebay for a P car seems much lower than what we think.

quote:

The accusations made here were made without a shred of evidence. cowboy from hell

Figured there would be disclosure of such by PI if known. Even if you had to rework the flares, having read the write up at the PI site and looking at the work done on this car, IMO, that's a great value for someone wanting a wide body car. You couldn't even dream of duplicating it for the price.

-K

This is what a wide body Pantera looks like. People constantly want to know if my Pantera is a Fiberfab kit and it is not a widebody.

My personal preferance on a wide body conversion would be steel flares on a US car.

They look better over the tires. The factory front vent/grill on the GT5's adds to the "fiberglass" feel.

The look is more of a "comp car" one and not nearly as refined as a GT5 but that's my taste.
I put on my racing sneakers, not my Gucci loafers to drive. You gotta leave the Sopranos necklace home too. That thing could kill you in normal spirited driving.

While frankly I don't like the snide kit remarks I do understand where they originate from.

I don't expect the general public to like or approve of what I do. In fact if they did, I'd be worried about what the world is coming too.

This car looks like a fantastic bargain. Perhaps the owner just needs the $39,000 for his liver transplant and wants a fast sale.
If you notice, it is the owners asking price, not PI's established price.

They listed what they think it would cost to build this car.

You guys are like a bunch of old ladies. You want a bargain on a car and when one shows up you wanna' know whats wrong with it. Truth is definately stranger then fiction.

So it needs paint. Big deal.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
This is what a wide body Pantera looks like. People constantly want to know if my Pantera is a Fiberfab kit and it is not a widebody.

While frankly I don't like the snide kit remarks I do understand where they originate from.

I don't even have a problem with "kit" cars. Go to a Good Guys show sometime. Very few of those are original steel bodied cars. Want a Cobra? Don't know about you but I can't afford a real one. Besides why not get one that has the technology behind it to really put that power to weight ratio to work? Kit cars are so well done these days I don't think most people even know they are one.

I admire the skill and mostly the guts to start from scratch and build something then get in it a drive. And some are SCARY fast. I think that "kit" cars get a bad rap from the Bentley front ended VW's and all those other cheesy fiberglass creations we've seen.

I think that "kit" cars get a bad rap from the Bentley front ended VW's and all those other cheesy fiberglass creations we've seen.[/QUOTE]

Oops....Rolls Royce.

quote:

You guys are like a bunch of old ladies. You want a bargain on a car and when one shows up you wanna' know whats wrong with it. Truth is definately stranger then fiction.

So it needs paint. Big deal.

Remember the Pink Panther GT-4 with steel flares that languished forever and a day at PIM. Many hated the color, while others focused on the custom rear spoiler and its other "negatives." Meanwhile, I saw a fantastic looking GT-4 I would repaint in black, being sold at a bargain price. I'm not sure if the car ever did sell. Go figure..

Panther
Any more shots on your car? The stance looks great and I would like to see the car from a lower and closer 3/4 front and straight side.
Thanks

I think that, even though I resist, the only safe color to paint a Pantera for RESALE is red.The Pink Panther, I believe, was built for Bev Hall.
I could be wrong, since I usually am.

For some reason people seem to hate white on a P. In fact, they seem to get violent over it. I wonder if my shrink has a medication for that one too? Hum?

I came close to the GT4 route but considering how unliked they can be it was a wise choice to stay stock.

The stuffed fender look with the new wheels is better since you can always go back.

See how nice Panthers car is in red? No one says the flares aren't right or other BS. Beautiful car Panther. Very nice.

quote:

Originally posted by Panther:

Remember the Pink Panther GT-4 with steel flares that languished forever and a day at PIM. Many hated the color, while others focused on the custom rear spoiler and its other "negatives." Meanwhile, I saw a fantastic looking GT-4 I would repaint in black, being sold at a bargain price. I'm not sure if the car ever did sell. Go figure..

I'm with you I liked that car just needed a black paint job and some updating I would of been all in at about $30,000

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
The stuffed fender look with the new wheels is better since you can always go back.

See how nice Panthers car is in red? No one says the flares aren't right or other BS. Beautiful car Panther. Very nice.

But thats the point isnt it? What would it take to get the PI White tribute car to look like Panther's. Not much even (the rims are the same). Even if you repainted it red you're still there for right at $40k. Not bad.

IMO done right white and black are the most stunning colors.

quote:

Panteras crack.

The accusations made here were made without a shred of evidence.

In light of my brief non descript post I can understand why George made the above comment.

I would never want to say anything harmful that would hurt the seller because of untrue opinions I offered. On the other hand, remaining silent when someone opened a topic of discussion on this board about a car for sale that I have personally seen and have an opinion on could be very hurtful to the would be buyer. Also remaining silent defeats the entire purpose of this bulletin board. Everybody needs to keep in mind that these posts are for exchanging ideas and sharing information. No single post should be taken as the gospel. Everyone needs to read all the posts, then do their own due diligence and decide for themelves what makes sense and what doesn't. While I believe my statements are reliable, George is correct that I have not a shred of evidence to substantiate my opinions and it is entirely possible my opinions are wrong. As I've stated before in many of my previous posts, I am no Pantera expert. However, I do not make frivolous claims. If I say something, it is because I am reasonably certain my information is accurate.

I live in the Southern California area, less then an hours drive from P.I. Motorsports. I've been to P.I. 3 or 4 times or more in the last several months. On one of my visits to P.I, my friend and I were browsing at the various Panteras for sale. My friend pointed out to me the White wide body Pantera and told me he believed it had been in a serious accident. While my friend is admittedly not a Pantera guru, at one time he was in the car restoration business and he is familiar with frame and body. The stress cracks on the flares was NOT the reason he believed this car was in a serious accident. On a subsequent occasion when I visited P.I. to look at another Pantera, I had a nice chat with Jerry Sackett. I asked him about the White wide body Pantera because I was curious if he would corroborate what my friend had pointed out to me about the car. I know full well Jerry wants to help his customers sell their cars. But Jerry also has a fiduciary responsibility as owner of P.I. to be honest and forthright with potential buyers. While my conversation with Jerry was private, I will say I left that day with a very high respect for Jerry Sackett. He has a tough job juggling his responsibility of doing everything he can to help his customers sell their car at his shop, and he must balance that with being honest and forthright to potential buyers. Jerry acheived both that day and I believe he handled himself appropriately from both the buyers and sellers standpoint. Based on the way Jerry handled himself with me that day, I would happily buy a Pantera at P.I. and I would happily sell my Pantera at P.I. As for the white wide body Pantera, I have said enough so that a potential buyer who reads through these posts will be cognizant of the fact that the white wide body Pantera MIGHT have been in a serious accident and that they will need to do their own due diligence and draw their own conclusions.

George, I know you are a So Cal guy and not too far from P.I. Motorsports.I also know you are an authority of some repute with Panteras. If you ever have a chance to personally look at the White wide body Pantera in person please let us know your opinions of whether this car was wrecked badly.

Take care,

David in Tujunga

Bunch of old ladies? Serious previous damage innuendo? Unfounded Accusations? What's that all about?

I just saw what appeared to be a pretty nice car at a decent price and asked what seemed to be a pretty reasonable question. -At least to me. Finished engine bay, flares, wing, dam, contemporary hood vents, roll bar, billet repro wheels, interior, gauges…etc. The rear valance....well....hmmm....Anyway, $36k?

PI sells cars at market and has even mentioned before in posts on this board that they typically can command premium so list with them. That does not look like market let alone premium for that car to me; thus the question. As an owner, I like others like to stay abreast of what cars are bringing, and all the “they never bring what you have in them” yaddy-yadda. And yah, I might even like to have a second PCar some day.

OK, since the thread is going down this road anyway, now I do have to ask.

Without regard to the car that started this thread, if PI was to have a car for sale that had sustained serious previous damage, would that be disclosed or not? Only at time of sale but not advertisement? Only if asked?

When someone places a car on "consignment" with PI, are they just renting space on the busy corner with a for sale sign in the window and disclaimers about the cars history deferring to owners supplied information?

As I stated in my previous post cars at PI and PIM are usually higher priced than what people are actually willing to pay on sites such as Ebay. As Panterror says PIM has stated they "command a premium price." But that usually is due to a commitment to maintain above average standard of business practices or ethics.

I fully believe in caveat emptor, buyer beware, but I also believe in honesty. That is not to say that anyone or any business mentioned so far in this thread is anything but honest and ethical.

If this were my car, and this is my ethical stance, and it had a dubious history (not saying it does)I would fully disclose this fact to any potential buyuer whether they asked or not. As stated buyer beware but honesty rules the day. If you hide behind the fact that buyer beware or "they didn't ask so I didn't tell" mentality then you are dishonest. Period. As quoted "A lie of omission is still a lie."

I think we all know, or should as adults, that this "forum" is all about differing opinions and ideas. And that anything said is based ones own unique experiences and views. That is what makes these forums great. What would they be like if we all thought the same? That is the point to this form of medium and anyone who thinks that the words printed here for public consumption are gospel, no matter who they are from (including this one ), and beyond further investigation is defeating the whole purpose of being here.

Going down that road? Hum?
OK. What's a fully restored car? Does it matter that it was a wreck?

As far as is it worth to buy this car financially in todays market? Not if when it is done all it is worth is $39,999. In fact, none of them are worth it. However if a Belvedere can go for $200,000, there is always hope.

The Pink Panther is a really good example of what not to do for resale of a Pantera. No one that I know of ever thought of a Pantera as a gaymobile until it appeared.

Panteras are strictly passion objects with no basis to reality. I know. I have one too. I'm stupid too.

You buy what you can afford to donate to the cause I suppose.

i would have no problem buying a car with accident damage if it was disclosed. these are " fun " cars,and not daily drivers.

i can deal with an older Lotus Esprit having plastic feel. but they are half the price of a Pantera, and i will add one of them to my shop soon enough. i prefer steel to plastic flares.

seems white Panteras have a stigma attached to them? i am a new guy and i have ran across some heated debates about color on these cars.

coming from Ferrari's, i really detest red on cars, and would rather have an " off color " car than a red one. i have always avoided white, but with some purchases its not possible. it really comes down to the final price i think.


my "kit" comment with regards to the white car was meant that i prefer the clean lines of the early cars. the flares and wings do little for me. but thats just a personal (flaw?) of mine.

I think that all of these remarks about the Panteras are pertanent, including the kit car remark, regardless of whether anyones feathers get ruffled or not.

Red is the safest color, not necessarily the best. I think it wouldn't be much of a stretch to pull auction results based on color to show that.

I like white on a Pantera. Others hate it. I like to think that Pantera Red is of a higher quality the Ferrari red. Ferraris look pretty good in black too.

Another thought was that Gary Hall said that he thought the Pantera would never be an M&M car. An M&M car being defined as the only thing deferentiating the cars being thier colors, like a bowl of M&M's.