Aluminum flywheel

Charlie,
I posted several times about this and George has driven my car and also posted his feedback on it as well.

First of all, the Aluminum flywheel is lighter by far. Probably 30 to 40 lbs anyway. I didn't weigh mine before putting it in, so I can't say for sure what the weight difference is. But it's quite a bit.

The Aluminum takes a little getting used to, it feels different. The first thing you will notice is the grund, drop and go seems to be gone that the iron flywheel gives you. In the beginning I felt like I was going slower in some ways becasue I didn't feel that grunt and torq. any more or as much as I was used to. Missed that feeling in the beginning.

However....what I've learned is really happening is it's spining easier and I would have to say faster. I find that with the aluminum flywheel my car rev's up much quicker and actually gets to speed much quicker. Whereas with the iron flywheel, if I ran the rpm's up to 6000 and shifted and stayed on it, the rpm's would drop to just under 4,000 rpm's and start to climb again. Now with the aluminum flywheel when I run it up to 6000, shift and stay on it, the rpm's drop to right at 4200 and then it literately jump's right back up to 6000, and I'm not staying in a gear as long, therefore shifting quicker from gear to gear.

The feel of the speed and acceleration is different than with the iron flywheel. But what I've learned is that I am going just as fast as I was with the with the iron flywheel, just getting there faster and what feels like smoother. I've also found that when in hard, hard cornering and accelerating out of the corners, the rear end is easier to deal with and doesn't tend to want to squirt out from under you becasue of the smoother application of power being put to the rear end.

As far as starting from a standing stop. I didn't find it all that much different in traffic. It might take just a little more gas to get moving, but not very much to make any real difference.

I do it very, very rarely, but I also tested the lauching ability as well from a standing start. Rev'd it up to about 3500 and aggressively let the clutch out. The result was spinning the rear tires like it was sitting on ice.

Now that I have it in and have gotten used to the different feeling of it, I would never go back to the iron flywheel.

I bought mine from McLeod and used their 3 finger pressure & clutch disc.

When are you going to be home, I can call you to talk more about it if you want.

Having been used to the effects of lighter flywheels in big ol' musclecars, I was leary about the results in the Pantera.

After driving Jim's car, I'm OK with it. I like the feel, more like an Italian sports car, less like a muscle car. Actually, starting off from a stop light, I really didn't notice a difference at all. Jim wanted me to dump the clutch faster than what I am accustomed to.

Makes sense to me that our lighter, lower geared & manual transmission equipped Panteras do not need as much inertia in the drive train as a '71 Mustang or Torino with 3.25 gears & a C6 transmission.

The jury is still out however if there will be any ill effects on slippery road surfaces (rain, snow, etc). If any one drives on them.

your friend on the DTBB, George

Although I only put 1000 miles on the iron flywheel before I switched to the Al. I do notice that on the start the revs. need to be higher. shifting seems to be smoother and reves up fast. I personally like it, it just takes some getting used to like anything else you will adapt to the machine.
I am in Michigan is anyone else haveing withdrawls due to winter?

[QUOTE] Jim wanted me to dump the clutch faster than what I am accustomed to.

Only because with the alumuim flywheel, dragging the clutch is not a good thing, (with aluminum or Iron for that matter) but since it is lighter and takes a little more gas, it's better to get it hooked up quicker.


[QUOTE] The jury is still out however if there will be any ill effects on slippery road surfaces (rain, snow, etc). If any one drives on them.

I'm pretty sure I drive on them more than anyone else does....14,000+ miles this year alone in my Pantera. I found it to be better on slippier roads if there is such a thing running 275 & 335 wide tires. Just as it is better accelerating out of hard corning. The rear end doesn't squirt out from under you as much with the application of smoother power being applied.

But that's my car and all Pantera's do not drive the same.

Oh come on. Everyone is skirting around the REAL reason for getting an aluminum flywheel just like they do the real reason for drinking whiskey. The REAL reason to get an aluminum flywheel is that you can sit at a stoplight and rev the engine. It not only shoots straight up to almost redline, it goes back down just as fast and cackles when it does. Everyone watching knows you are now driving a REAL racecar. The intimidation factor is worth the entry fee right there!!!!!

Yeah.........

that's it! I want to make Mustang drivers and Corvette drivers pee their pants!

George

quote:

Originally posted by george pence:
Yeah.........

that's it! I want to make Mustang drivers and Corvette drivers pee their pants!

George

Exactly my friend. Let's get some honesty in this thread. It is worth the money for the sound of the reulting engine alone. Everyone ever born, loves hearing the quick rapping sound of a motor with a lightweight flywheel. All this technical talk is camoflogeing the truth. Truth is it SOUNDS BADASS!!!

DeTom,

You should hear the sound of Dennis Daley's motor. With Webers & 180 degree headers, it doesn't have that low pitch uneven V8 burble, it has a very smooth whine to it, just like an Indy car. BITCHEN, BITCHEN, BITCHEN.

His motor looks sexy & sounds sexier! I know you would absolutely go nuts over it.

George

We're getting a bit off topic here, DeTom! lol......

You got me pegged George. To me even if it only had 150 HP, but looked and sounded good, I would be just as happy.

quote:

Originally posted by DeTom:
You got me pegged George. To me even if it only had 150 HP, but looked and sounded good, I would be just as happy.

DeTom, bite your tounge A Pantera has to back up it's growl.

Anyone tried lightening the steel flywheel? Maybe it'll be something in between?

quote:

A Pantera has to back up it's growl.

Well I used to think that. But something happened here a few months ago that really pointed out to me the futility of doing any showing off on the street. A guy in a Viper was racing a guy in a Mustang that was all NOSed up. Well the Mustang kid slammed a chevy shitbox that was stopped at a light and killed the homecoming queen, who had just been elected homecoming queen the night before. The local law is real pissed. The state legislature is about to outlaw NOS on street cars. We have a drag strip, so there is no excuse for this, none at all. These guys are up on murder charges and people want them strung up.
So why have a 1000 HP car?? I am not about to drag my Pantera. I can't afford a new tranny every week. Sorry but for all practical purposes around these parts, a 100 horsepower Pantera is just as good as a 1000 HP Pantera.

Talk about a thread downer.

No doubt the accident you describe was very tragic, and the boozo should go to jail.
But limiting yourself to a 100 hp? how about 350 or so? Nice middle ground?

Let's think happier thoughts..... It's Friday!

Oh sure. I got 300 or so, I was just exagerating. But I did have close to 400 before I blew up my old engine. It was fun, but now I can run regular gas.

deTom,

Drive that Pantera out to Fillmore this spring, there's this tract of land to the east, folks call it the Mojave Desert. Got a lot of cactus & rock. Lots of little used roads too! We'll have some fun & you can try out all 300 of those ponies. Just have to watch out for the banditos who hide out along the roads to rob unsuspecting travelers. You familiar with those guys? We call them the Highway Patrol!

George

Filmore Tennessee?? Is it out west somewhere?? I hope it is less than two hundred miles. I used to have a rule where I could only drive my Pantera 300 miles a year to preserve it's value. Now since I am getting older and closing in on death, I allow myself two hundred miles per trip.

OK DeTom,

Drive out to Fillmore California, 200 miles per day. Should make it in about 10 days!

How much vacation do yo have saved up?

lol.......................

George

I have about two weeks saved up. So ten days out and ten back, that would give us the weekend at least.

Does anyone know what the stock flywheel weighs? What do aftermarket aluminum units weigh?

I think the billet steel one I bought was about 38 pounds, I have ordered an aluminum flywheel I believe they run about 16 to 18 pounds.

When I have both in hand I will place them on the scale and report back probably during next week.

My flywheels are both for the Windsor motor but I'm sure weight wise there similar to the Cleveland

Cool Mark. Since I didn't weigh mine before putting it in, I would like to know as well what the differences are for sure.

quote:

When I have both in hand I will place them on the scale and report back probably during next week.

My flywheels are both for the Windsor motor but I'm sure weight wise there similar to the Cleveland

I have run an aluminum flywheel since 1998. To be honest, I didn't notice any difference at all because at the same time, I went to a 377 stroker.
I think the extra low end of the stroker offset any difference I might have noticed with just a change in flywheel.

Kirby

Would you say because of the more bottem torque in the stroker made up for the faster feeling of rev's getting to speed or RPM's ?

Did I ask that right ?

quote:

Originally posted by Coz:
Would you say because of the more bottem torque in the stocker made up for the faster feeling of rev's getting to speed or RPM's ?

Did I ask that right ?

Right in which language?

lol.............................

quote:

Originally posted by Coz:
Would you say because of the more bottem torque in the stocker made up for the faster feeling of rev's getting to speed or RPM's ?

Did I ask that right ?

Uhhh.... Yeah!

What is the McLoad part number for the alum flywheel? 164 tooth?

Part number Long press plate?

Part number Disc?

Who has the best price?

Kevin

The Mcleod web site has the flywheel part numbers, you need to know if the engine is internally or externally balanced. Most of the fords seem to have the 28oz external balance unless they have been internally balanced during rebuilds for performance applications.

I bought my clutch and pressures plate from PI the sponsor of this web site. However I don't have any part numbers.

The nice thing about buying from a Pantera vendor is if you have questions or problems with their products you have someone with Pantera specific experience that may be able to help you. You won't find that at Jegs or Summit.

http://www.mcleodind.com/cgi-bin/fccgi.exe?w3exec=w3ezm...tm&w3hostname=MCLEOD

I am going to be pulling my transaxle this winter to install Lloyd's taller 5th gear. So while I am at it, I thought I would install an aluminium flywheel. I would have installed one when I originally built the engine, but at the time I was told they where only available for internally balanced cranks. I should have asked a few more people at the time because this is clearly not he case.
So my question is this: Can I install an aluminium flywheel and keep my (quite new) ford pressure plate and clutch plate? Or do I have to use a pressure plate and clutch plate designed specifically for the ally flywheel? My engine is externally balanced and makes about 350HP.

Johnny

> I would have installed one when I originally built the engine, but at the
> time I was told they where only available for internally balanced cranks.
> I should have asked a few more people at the time because this is clearly not
> he case.

Even if it was the case, they guy balanced your reciprocating assembly should
have been able to weld on a balance weight. I have an aluminum flywheel for
a Ford 300 inline six that I plan to use on my backup motor. The Ford 300
six has the same flange and dimensions as a 351C flywheel but is neutrally
balanced. My engine guy will just weld on a 28.2 oz-in balance factor.

> So my question is this: Can I install an aluminium flywheel and keep my
> (quite new) ford pressure plate and clutch plate?

In general, yes. What is important is that you get the right number of teeth
and pressure plate bolt pattern. Assuming you have not changed yours from
stock, you had a 164 teeth flywheel with 28.2 oz-in balance factor, drilled
for a Long style pressure plate with 11" disc. At various times, Ford has
used 10", 10.4', 10.5", and 11" clutch discs for the SBF, along with either
Long or diaphragm pressure plates, 157 or 164 teeth, 28.2 or 50 oz-in. Often
(usually?), aluminum flywheels will have a thicker flange (where it bolts to
the flywheel) to make up for the fact that aluminum is not as strong as steel
or iron. You may need longer bolts (with perhaps shorter heads) and since
the clutch is movedback towards the transaxle, you'll need to readjust the
linkage. Some pressure plates will hit the inside of bellhousing so some
grinding may be necessary. Most of the Pantera venodrs are aware of this
and have pressure plates that clear.

Dan Jones
St. Louis, Missouri

Johnny - you installing the 5th gear yourself?

Thanks for your help Dan, much appreciated.
Rapier, I am not confident enough to install the 5th gear one my own, having never worked on a gearbox. Fortunately my friend Paddy has agreed to help me. He is an ex F1 engineer.
Lloyd Butfoy is also a friend of mine, so I think I am in good hands!

Johnny

HI!I JUST REPLACED MY STOCK FLYWHEEL WITH A NEW ALUMINUM ONE FROM DENNIS, ALL I CAN SAY IS! MY CAR SHITS & GETS,THIS IS WHAT THE MAKEUP OF MY ENGINE IS.CLVE BLOCK WITH BOSS HEADS,ROLLERROCKERS ALUMINUM HIGHRISE INTAKE WITH STREET CAM,ALSO WE GOT RID OF THE CARB & REPLACED IT WITH A NEW HOLLEY DUEL-FEED TRUCK AVENGER,NEW ALUM RADIATOR FROM DENNIS OVER @ CASTLEROCK,ALUM WATER PIPES UNDERNEATH.I USE NOTHING BUT WHITE GAS 93 OCTANE AND I ADD ONE BOTTLE OF HIGH OCTANE BOOSTER CALLED OUTLAW TO EVERY TANK.MY ENGINE IS NOT STOCK...BATMAN.THE DIFFERENCE IS NIGHT & DAY..GOOD LUCK.

You guys do realize that you can't use a long clutch in a Pantera? It doesn't sound like it. There isn't enough travel in the slave cylinder for a Long. Use a diaphram clutch. You don't wanna hurt those synchros in the ZF. They sell them by the pound. I do believe that Centerforce makes an aluminum light weight cluth assembly.

quote:

Originally posted by BatMan:
HI!I JUST REPLACED MY STOCK FLYWHEEL WITH A NEW ALUMINUM ONE FROM DENNIS, ALL I CAN SAY IS! MY CAR SHITS & GETS.....THE DIFFERENCE IS NIGHT & DAY...

Hey Caped Crusader, that's cool. Thanks for the feedback! Glad you're happy with it.

Your friend on the DTBB, George

Isn't the long style what the Pantera comes with?

Don't the Pantera vendors sell the long style and it doesn't fit properly?

Cany you expond?

I don't know what the vendors sell but the Pantera always had a diaphram clutch. The Long clutch although it is used in most Fords of that era requires more travel then the hydraulic sytem could provide.
I can can virtually guaranty that if you use a Long for any signifigant amount of time, you are going to wind up rebuilding the ZF.
If you look at the Centerforce catalog it has a special listing just for the Pantera. It is a 10.4" diameter disc, dual friction design. It works nice. I can recommend it to you.
They don't list a Pantera LM (light material) clutch for the Pantera, but if you went to the trouble of an aluminum flywheel, I'll bet Centerforce could fix you up with one.
Common guys. A Long is for a Ford. This is a Detomaso.